Car question not model a

[bart78]

I have a question about a car. It's not a model a. I have a guy tell me his brother in law has a willys whippet roadster. He said its been in a barn for around fourty years. I don't know much about them. He is going to try to get me into look at it. And would like to know more. Mainly so I can make him a offer on it. I don't want to go there without cash. I don't think one would run around model a prices. I know their rare. But just not as wanted as a's. thanks guys

[Ross/Kzoo]

I guess that I don't see your question, worth? Production numbers? You also don't state the year.

[Gumpy]

Bart-

When you get over there ask if you can take a few pictures, feel the guy out
he will tell you in his own way what he would like to get out of it....people that have old stuff often have alot more old stuff hidden, there may be an antique hidden under a tarp you don't see or maybe his neighbor has something, a friend of mine found a 1924 HD hidden under a chicken coop! good luck gump

[ronn]

or-he may have watched one too many episodes of pickers and want a million dollars for it......
that is more often the case then not.

[Bruce Adams]

I seem to recall reading they outsold the later Model T's in 1927, but I don't believe they came close to sales against the Model A. Parts have to be hard to find and I do not believe it is a very sought after car.
I just looked at ebay and parts were not too available so it must be complete to be considered.

[62pan]

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I for one don't make offers. You can turn a deal sour buy insulting a low price in the eye of the seller. It might seem fair to you but they might see a gold mine. Feel the guy out, he should have a price in mind if he is interested in selling. Take enough cash to leave a decent deposit so he knows your serious and that the balance will be paid when picked up. If he gives you a price you think is too high explain why you think it is more than you can or should pay. As far as what the car is worth, don't worry about it. Once you see it you will either like it and want it or not.

[bart78]

I will feel him out. Around this area when someone wants to look at a old car. They want to buy it. That's why you either get to see them or you don't. Not to many people around here that just want to go look at old cars. Most of them have to think about it when you ask. But the cash talks. When they see it right then they know you are serious. You are not the guy blowing smoke up their butt. And you aren't going to go and never be heard from again. I have walked away with a bunch of stuff because I had the cash. And some said the guy would never sell. I like to try to buy as soon as I see it.

[MikeK]

Here's a nice? right hand drive '27 Whippet for sale with a price: LINK

[Keith True]

If you look up Willys-Whippet-Overland you will probably find pictures of what it is.

[bart78]

I know what they look like. I know they were bigger than the model a. And I do know they made a bunch of them. But not many left because they were pieces of junk compared to the a. I do know parts are hard to come by. So I figure if its not complete buying if cheap would be best. I just don't know much about them.

[Rock Hornbuckle]

When negotiating, remember...he who speaks money first..loses! There is a great book out there..."The art of Negotiating", It has saved me many dollars!

[Tom Wesenberg]

The link Mike posted looks like a good buy. I see they had a pretty small engine at only 132 cu in.

[luckyal]

I bought one 6 years ago and sold it last year. I found it very difficult if not impossible to find parts for it. Parts I did find at Hershey were very expensive. A wood kit must be fabricated because there are no repro kits. I never did find a tail light or a hood ornament or a speedomter. It was a disaster from the time I bought it and it was very difficult to sell. There are a lot of negatives so I would be careful.
Al

[bart78]

I know most don't like to hear this. But I was told to if its complete restore it. If not make it a hot rod. Because I won't find parts. And I just talked to the guy that told me about it.and he said its missing the wheels and the hood. All the interior and other small parts like lights and so on.

[hardtimes]

Originally Posted by bart78

I know most don't like to hear this. But I was told to if its complete restore it. If not make it a hot rod. Because I won't find parts. And I just talked to the guy that told me about it.and he said its missing the wheels and the hood. All the interior and other small parts like lights and so on.

Sounds like you've already answered you own question..i.e.- buy if 'cheap' and incomplete! A guy has/had a similar year/make/model around the corner from my place...with wheels and hood..couldn't sell it.

And, as far as out 'figureing' an advanced age gentleman..pricewise..well , let us know how that goes,eh

[bart78]

No one said anything about a rat rod. Odds are if I can get it. It will get put with all my others. I'm a hoarder when it comes to pre 40 fords. My main problem is I keep buying and not fixing.

[trulyvintage]

Originally Posted by bart78

I have a question about a car. It's not a model a. I have a guy tell me his brother in law has a willys whippet roadster. He said its been in a barn for around fourty years. I don't know much about them. He is going to try to get me into look at it. And would like to know more. Mainly so I can make him a offer on it. I don't want to go there without cash. I don't think one would run around model a prices. I know their rare. But just not as wanted as a's. thanks guys

If you are serious about wanting to buy any car,
show up on time with a trailer, do not bring a camera, bring cash,
leave with the car on the trailer or leave empty handed.

Be respectful and polite, listen to the owner.

With regard to price, the owner knows how much
they want for the car.

You have one shot at this ....



Jim

[luckyal]

I certainly don't agree with Truly Vintage. I say take a camera and cash. If it is an amazing deal you use the cash. If not don't buy until you have had time to think it over and look at your pictures. Lots of people are sorry they made a spur of the minute decision that you can't reverse. I also say take somebody with you that you can compare notes with. Also take a cloth protected magnet to check on the traditional spots you might expect to be full of bondo. Most of all don't be pressured. Yes the seller may know what he thinks the price is but it is your money you are spending not his, so spend it like it is your last dollar. We all know sellers mark up the price expecting you to dicker. Bottom line " let the buyer beware " !
Al
p.s. Always try to get delivery included as that can be a major expense !!

[Keith True]

There seems to be a big change in the way people buy things.I've been selling stuff since I was a kid,my father told me I've been doing it now for 40 years.In the last ten years it seems like I've been running into a lot of internet trained buyers.In most cases if they show up with a camera and a pad of paper they are going to take an hour of my time and call a week later with a stupid offer.If I want $10,000 they will offer $1,000.What I finally started doing was to just put my price on it,firm,no offers.I figure out what I want and that is it.That is my bottom dollar.It will either be a yes,I'll take it,or no thanks.I don't have to listen to people telling me it needs this,or I'll have to do that to it to chisel the price.I'll point them toward it,and turn them loose.I'll answer any question or show them anything they want to see but I always leave them alone to relax and climb all over it.I always tell everything I know about stuff.It is always old iron so I make sure they know that what you see is what you get,and what you don't see you get anyway.I make it very clear that if they come up to look they are going to pay the price they are told if they buy.Even after that some are insulted when I won't take an offer once they get there.

[luckyal]

Keith You've been selling for 4o years and I have been buying for over 50. I don't consider it unreasonable to spend an hour to buy a car woth $ 20,000 dollars. Sometimes I spend days ! In fact I find it prudent. And I don't mind making a stupid offer because sometimes the seller sunk way more in a car than he should have and he wants to recover the money unwisely spent. A
$ 15000 dollar paint job on a Model A can not be recovered unless it is a very rare model. So I say don't worry about insulting the seller, because there are lots more where he came from !
Al

[bart78]

Most of the people I buy stuff off of. Don't know they are sellers. I ask them to look at a car. Then I ask if its for sell. I show them I have cash with me. I don't want to give them time to talk it over with their kids. It's sat for years and they have never cared about it. But when people come to buy. You can sure as hell bet they all of a sudden have an interest in it. Every thing I buy are projects. And can tell pretty quick what condition it is in. I had a guy get mad because I got a 27 roadster off his mom. I paid her a fair price for the car. It was mostly a body. He said I took advantage of her. And he watches the car auctions and knows what they go for. I have never seen a rusted t roadster body on any of the tv auctions. I told him that I would sell him the car back if he wanted it. But he would allso have to pay me for replacing the gate that I had to tear up to get it out. This is the main reason I try to buy right off the bat. I feel my chances drop when I have to come back.

[luckyal]

I personally would not buy off an older lady without her family being involved !
Al

[bart78]

I go to church with the old lady. And her son is a lazy pos. I don't rip anyone off. But I am not going to over pay for a car that is not a rare car.

[luckyal]

But you said in the original post you don't want to give them time to talk it over with their kids ! Why not ? I actuall insist on it !
Al

[bart78]

Because most of the time the kids decide they want the car. Or they watch to much Barrett Jackson. And they think their dads old car that has no floors or rockers. And it's missing the hood. And the motor is a boat anchor. And I am allso in a area where cars are still pretty much on every old farm still. And it's allso a area where cows are more important than the old cars. I am strait with the people. A lot of them I know. I grew up here.

[dumb person]

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Originally Posted by bart78

I know most don't like to hear this. But I was told to if its complete restore it. If not make it a hot rod. Because I won't find parts. And I just talked to the guy that told me about it.and he said its missing the wheels and the hood. All the interior and other small parts like lights and so on.

Normal people have not figured out you can retrofit more common parts to fit the car. Model A or T ford tail lights look correct on alot of old cars. You can also find really odd tail lights from unknown makes at swapmeets for about $5 and fit that to an incomplete car & it would look & work just fine. Same for speedometers and such. Seen ford distributors fitted to rare cars out of necessity & nobody disapproves.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by bart78

Because most of the time the kids decide they want the car. Or they watch to much Barrett Jackson. And they think their dads old car that has no floors or rockers. And it's missing the hood. And the motor is a boat anchor. And I am allso in a area where cars are still pretty much on every old farm still. And it's allso a area where cows are more important than the old cars. I am strait with the people. A lot of them I know. I grew up here.

We had a member of our club that had a beautiful car. A few weeks after he passed a member went to the kids and made an offer on the car, he was suprised that his kids had already sold it at a no reserve auction, the good news was that his offer was way more than the price they sold it at auction and the greedy kids are kicking themselves for not offering it to the club members first.

[Mike V. Florida]

Info on Whippet
http://www.allpar.com/cars/adopted/whippet.html

[luckyal]

First of all older people usually have no idea whatsover what an antique car is worth ! They are still thinking values from the 50, 60 or 70's. It is unfair in my mind to buy from them and immediately sell for a significant profit. That means they did not receive true value. I have on more than one occasion told an aged person they were not asking true value and they should ask their children or relatives for a more accurate price. I then have a clear conscience and I can sleep very well at night. When the deal is over can you say I gave what I would have wanted my mother to have received from a stranger for the same car ?
Al

[Gumpy]

Bart-
Have an accummulation of cars is great and it's exciting to find one and purchase it but if just possessing it is enough then that's good, I like to drive em, I like to own car's that jogs people's memory: I owned 12 flathead v8's when i was younger, after I got older and moved they just started gettin in the way, now I own one that's it! The older i get the less i have.....gump

[bart78]

First off I do not sell anything I buy. Just ask my wife. She gets pissed all the time. If I was ripping people off. It would get around real fast here. I am not in this to make money. I am still young and that is one reason I buy a bunch. In a few years a bunch of the cars in this area will be scrap. There was an estate auction here a couple years ago. The guy had pobably 50 old fords. Ranging from the 40's to the 50's. a barn full of flatheads and y blocks. One guy got probably 95% of the stuff. And it all went to the scrap yard. I was out of town and did not get to go. That is what happens around here when the old people die off. People around here don't care about them. I sleep very well at night. Because I know I gave them what the car needed to bring. This is not California or the north east. Most would rather deal with a person like me. I show up in my beat up farm truck. With worn out boots and wranglers. I don't show up in my cadilac escalade wearing dockers and white shoes. I am respectful to the people. And a lot of times I can end up trading with them. I usually have a bunch of hay. And some of the time I will trade hay for a car. Most of us are just the same kind of people. And we all trust each other. A lot of times I end up fixing things on a old barn or something for them. This is all done locally I have to see these people again. And most if the time I end up going back to help them with other things. There are actually places still left where people help each other out. A old guy needs a couple bales of hay. Because he does not have the money to go buy it. Or is health is to bad for him to go get it. Most of these people I see again on more that one occasion. So please don't say that I rip people off. Because it is far from it.

[Gumpy]

Originally Posted by luckyal

First of all older people usually have no idea whatsover what an antique car is worth ! They are still thinking values from the 50, 60 or 70's. It is unfair in my mind to buy from them and immediately sell for a significant profit. That means they did not receive true value. I have on more than one occasion told an aged person they were not asking true value and they should ask their children or relatives for a more accurate price. I then have a clear conscience and I can sleep very well at night. When the deal is over can you say I gave what I would have wanted my mother to have received from a stranger for the same car ?
Al

Mr. Standing isn't this a rush to judgement! After all you own 12 model A's?

[luckyal]

Mr. Grumpy Not that I owe you an explanation, but when I deal both parties fare very well. Many are bought at auctions or advertised estate sales. Two last year from Barrett Jackson. My principles may be very different from your in that I do not want to see old people taken advantage of.
Al

[Special Coupe Frank]

Originally Posted by bart78

I know what they look like. I know they were bigger than the model a. And I do know they made a bunch of them. But not many left because they were pieces of junk compared to the a. I do know parts are hard to come by. So I figure if its not complete buying if cheap would be best. I just don't know much about them.

I think calling the Whippet a "piece of junk" is a bit harsh...

The Whippet replaced the Overland badge around 1927, and was low-priced car competing with the 4 cylinder Chrysler, Chevrolet, Dodge Bros, etc. In '28 or '29, Whippet added a small six.

The 132 4-cylinder engine was an ancestor of the Willys "Go-Devil" engine that powered the beloved Jeep MB during WW II.

Whippet radiators & shells were highly sought-after for hot-rods and lakes racers in the 1930's & '40s...

They did have wood-framed bodies, like the majority of American autos built before 1935, and any that were left in less than ideal storage have likely decomposed, just like other makes of similar construction.


Today they are uncommon, repro parts are probably nil, and good originals / NOS are hard to come by.

Coming from flat-head MoPar-land, where I started in the old-car hobby, us Model A guys have it damned nice in terms of total number produced, number of survivors, and the great volume of original and repro parts available to us... some might even call us "spoiled"...

I wouldn't mind having a '27-'28 Whippet myself...

[bart78]

As I have said I do not take advantage of the people I buy from. Remember most of the stuff I buy has to be drug out of the brush. They are not drivers. Most of them require a complete restoration. I do not buy restored cars. For sure at a place that I have to pay to get in and bid. And then have to pay a buyers premium. I do not see cars like model a's as investments. They made all most five million. More and more are showing up every day. The more that people like my grandfather pass away. People will see that there are more out there than they thought. How do you think people that make a living at buying and selling these cars buy them. They don't go out and pay five or six thousand dollars for a model a coupe with no floors and rusty quarters. The people that big them from them pay that. And I grew up walking past model a's that were sitting in a field. To get to more desirable cars. I know they have gone up in prices. That is one reason I don't buy many a's. we have cars that my grandfather paid twenty or twenty five dollars for. Just because I don't over pay at the fancy auctions. Does not mean I do people bad.

[Gumpy]

I think auctions are overated and costly, It is much like gambling, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose, the frenzy of buying and the moment!

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by luckyal

Mr. Grumpy Not that I owe you an explanation, but when I deal both parties fare very well. Many are bought at auctions or advertised estate sales. Two last year from Barrett Jackson. My principles may be very different from your in that I do not want to see old people taken advantage of.
Al

...but maybe an apology? I believe his name is GUMPY, --not "grumpy"!!

,

.

[luckyal]

A Freudian slip I am sure ! Wink, wink !