|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
12-30-2023, 05:04 PM | #21 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Texas
Posts: 1,631
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Germany
Flathead V8 production at the Koln plant in Cologne Germany deviated from USA practices due to politics and a war. Before WW2 the German production primarily followed USA practices, with some lag in adopting changes. One notable difference is all German V8s used a cast aluminum oil pan, probably because the stamping dies and machine were too expensive to justify for the small volume production of these engine. Please be careful with pictures taken during World War 2, just because a truck is in German use does not indicate it was produced in Germany. All sides were quite happy to incorporate any captured usable Ford vehicle into their fleet, and did so regularly. A quick insignia paint job and the vehicle switched sides, regardless of where the vehicle or engine was produced. Production started with the 1935-36 type engines as shown in this celebratory picture of the first engine. At the time the Führer decided to start a world war engine production at Koln was still 21 stud engines. With a war on the government appropriated the plant and Ford lost control and contact with the German facility for the duration of the war. Some time in 1940? Koln modified their castings to make 24 stud engines, and enlarged the bore to make 239 cubic inch units. The cylinder deck on these engines is different, with the center water hole upside down keystone becoming a bit of an arrowhead shape. At some point the Germans got fed up with the distributor low on the front of the motor and decided to do something about it. The block casting was modified so that a distributor drive could be attached at the top of the oil pump. Here is a picture of a German engine in a military vehicle, check out that distributor access. After the war the plant was returned to Ford. The German engines were updated with some of the 8BA features, but not all. It appears to me that the cooling improvements were adopted, but no other changes since the German motors already had a top mounted distributor. Continued use in already designed vehicles probably had something to do with this, more information would be nice. These engine pictures show the updated cooling system evident by the 8BA style heads, but retaining the cast on bell housing and not adopting the 8BA style crankcase ventilation. |
01-02-2024, 08:29 AM | #22 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 1,981
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Fantastic compilation!
I'm very surprised though that there have been no comments ether confirming or commenting on this thread. Glenn |
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|
01-02-2024, 01:05 PM | #23 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: Paducah Ky
Posts: 279
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
It is a very interesting thread. I enjoy reading about the evolution of the flathead. One thing I'm foggy on is which flatheads used a cylinder sleeve. I'm aware that some did and some didn't but don't remember any details. I remember Mart mentioning this on some of his videos. Guess I should have taken better notes. Ha ha
Al Hook |
01-02-2024, 03:15 PM | #24 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NJ
Posts: 6,181
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
|
01-02-2024, 07:28 PM | #25 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posts: 16,440
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
The tin can sleeves, "named due to very thin wall steel construction" were a product of the prewar build up and were not common before 1940 or after 1941 or 42. I think this was an experiment by Ford to see how well they would work for either production or overhaul/repair. The fact that they didn't last may have been due to war time production slowing The T16 track vehicle was about the only fair size contracted military vehicle made at the Rouge that had the V8 in the 95-HP version. It was a larger version of the Bren Gun Carrier.
This thread will be the new "Go To" for flathead V8 ID. |
01-02-2024, 11:02 PM | #26 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Texas
Posts: 1,631
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)
I tried to keep things general enough that it would be interesting, but informative enough for people to positively identify an engine. At the moment the glaring omissions from the posted information that I would appreciate help on are:
Here is a picture of a "tin can sleeve" that was originally shared in the first thread. |
01-07-2024, 03:11 PM | #27 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,070
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Here are some pictures of my NOS 41/42 Mercury / WWII block. Notice that it has a factory relief, has a raised intake surface and has the round center water hole. It does NOT have core plugs in the pan rail and comes stock with a 3 3/16 bore (239 cubic inches).
The Ford blocks will have a trapezoid center water hole and will be 3 1/16 bore. I'll include pictures of the AFTER state of the block - as I've heavily modified it for performance. You'll see heavy porting, full relief, large valves, large ports, etc.. Stock: image.jpg Heavily Modified: BlockPrep4.jpg DeckComplete.jpg |
01-07-2024, 03:14 PM | #28 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 8,162
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Quote:
__________________
The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... "Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!" "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0 |
|
01-07-2024, 03:35 PM | #29 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 1,981
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Beautiful B&S!
|
01-07-2024, 04:59 PM | #30 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 5,070
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Thank you sir! Am going to be building my first flathead again - first built it when I was 15.
It came out of the Kenz & Leslie streamliner that set the records as Bonneville in the early 50's. It is a 59L block - heavily ported, full-relief - just put in 1.75" intake seats and steel main caps from the front and center mains. Had it bored to 3.347 (85 mm) - this gives me a whole host of metric ring combinations to use. I'll have Ross make some custom pistons. Going to create either an injected or blown flatty . . . just for fun! LOL Last edited by Bored&Stroked; 01-07-2024 at 05:09 PM. |
01-14-2024, 12:34 PM | #31 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Location: South Texas
Posts: 1,631
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Thanks to glennpm we now have a picture of a 41-42 Ford block and post #11 has been updated.
|
01-15-2024, 09:46 AM | #32 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 1,981
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
38 coupe and I compiled this block identification into one pdf. Makes it easier to use and keep for reference.
I've also added the attached pdf to "Techno Source for the 1932 thru 1953 Flathead Ford". The links are as below: https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/hbise...kjpb7bre0&dl=0 Glenn Last edited by glennpm; 01-17-2024 at 12:06 PM. Reason: add pdf |
01-15-2024, 05:47 PM | #33 |
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 195
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Thank You for ALL the information! It is worth saving.!
|
01-15-2024, 06:43 PM | #34 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Christchurch New Zealand
Posts: 1,611
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
How to earmark this great information for future access?LIke even 6 months down the track.
Phil NZ |
01-16-2024, 07:26 AM | #35 |
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wiscasset, Maine
Posts: 1,981
|
Re: 221-239-255 Flathead Engine Block Identification Version 2
Hi Phil and old Tom,
These are my thoughts too. It would be good if we had a tech library on our site. Glenn |
|
|
Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) |
|