The Ford Barn

fredski53 · 12-08-2021, 04:47 PM

Hey Guys, I know this has been hashed out before, but I’m looking at a 31 coupe to buy and I’ve noticed the engine number is from August of 29. On the drivers side A-pillar a new looking VIN tag has been attached and those numbers are from March of 1930. The car is at a dealership and I’ve only looked at pictures of it on line.. Dealership lists it as “original “. My question to you all is, does mix match numbers support an reason for a lower price? At this time I don’t know what numbers are on the title. The car is in Minnesota, I live in Indiana. I know the car would have to be checked out by local police, and if the numbers on the title don’t match the new looking VIN tag we have a problem. If the cop is smart about old cars, he could say the motor number and the VIN tag don’t match. They are asking 19K for the car, I think it’s worth 14k. Thanks, Fred

jack wingard · 12-08-2021, 05:43 PM

well then, the dealer doesn't realize the engine isn't original to that particular car. If the dealer says hog wash, then have them pull off the body and show you the frame VIN which should match the title VIN. Negotiate from there.

Stingray70 · 12-08-2021, 06:02 PM

I think the consensus is that for a driver/non show car, a mismatched engine number doesn't affect the value much. Most of our cars have had engines swapped over the last 90 years. You can probably use it as a negotiating item though.

If the title doesn't match that VIN tag, it will be a PITA to sort out, so that would significantly affect the cars value.

JMHO

aermotor · 12-08-2021, 08:48 PM

I don't know about other states. In S.C. a new VIN can be issued for a Homebuilt vehicle or a "Reconstructed" vehicle. I built a speedster from a collection of model A parts and other assorted parts that I had laying around. I was able to obtain a VIN number after jumping through a few hoops starting with the DMV. The VIN inspector was not at all interested in the car - all he wanted to see was the newly issued VIN number on the firewall. The definition of reconstructed vehicle is not really defined, at any rate I have a valid VIN number, title and license plates. No more body numbers, engine numbers only the VIN number, valid in any state like any other car.

John

eagle · 12-08-2021, 11:35 PM

Sounds like you are wanting to play some games to lower the price. Do yourself a favor, tell them what you are willing to pay and why. Let the chips fall where they may. And for SURE, don't buy it sight unseen. Matching numbers on a Model A is quite rare if they haven't been altered to match. It might be a nice bonus if they were matching, but I'm not sure it really makes the car worth less if they aren't. If it was me I'd be more worried about a bondo body or worn out mechanicals. However, also check the title, make sure you know the hoops required to make the paperwork proper if it isn't already. Here in MN it is winter. Salt on the roads etc. Not likely you'll get to take it for a test drive, I sure wouldn't if it was mine, nor would I want salt in the crevasses of a car I was buying.

john charlton · 12-09-2021, 01:30 AM

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Get the dealer to send you a picture of the dash The speedos changed from oval to round in approx june 1930 . The dealer is selling the car as a 1931 with an early 1930 VIN he would have to explain that . Could be he has not picked up on that and does not know .

John in Suffolk County England .

Chris in WNC · 12-09-2021, 09:52 AM

Number on the title is the most critical.
Engine can be re-stamped to match.

If I bought a car with a state-issued VIN tag I'd throw it away as soon as I got the engine number fixed to match my new title.

Before purchase, run the number on the title past the DMV to confirm it is not on a stolen list.
If you live in a different state than the existing title it might get more complicated.

If the title has a non-Model A number then that's a different can of worms.....

aermotor · 12-09-2021, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris in WNC

Number on the title is the most critical.
Engine can be re-stamped to match.

If I bought a car with a state-issued VIN tag I'd throw it away as soon as I got the engine number fixed to match my new title.

Before purchase, run the number on the title past the DMV to confirm it is not on a stolen list.
If you live in a different state than the existing title it might get more complicated.

If the title has a non-Model A number then that's a different can of worms.....

May be a mistake to toss a VIN number tag, run the number first as VIN numbers trump all other numbers.

John

rotorwrench · 12-10-2021, 08:15 AM

The body doesn't have to be removed but it is still a PITA to lift it and pull the apron out of the way. If the frame is real crusty then there may no longer be a visible number. Forensic methods may work to bring it back up but it's always a gamble having to check the frame number.

All states have different procedures for issuing a title. It would be a good idea to see what your state requires before considering such a purchase.

Chris in WNC · 12-10-2021, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aermotor

May be a mistake to toss a VIN number tag, run the number first as VIN numbers trump all other numbers.

That's why I wouldn't toss it until I got my new title and engine number to match.
That number will trump everything else.

My OCD just has a proiblem with non-Ford vechicle serial #s, but rotorwrench above is correct, your state's protocols must govern what you do or not do .....

12-08-2021, 04:47 PM	#1
fredski53 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: La Porte, IN Posts: 143	Engine numbers don’t match Hey Guys, I know this has been hashed out before, but I’m looking at a 31 coupe to buy and I’ve noticed the engine number is from August of 29. On the drivers side A-pillar a new looking VIN tag has been attached and those numbers are from March of 1930. The car is at a dealership and I’ve only looked at pictures of it on line.. Dealership lists it as “original “. My question to you all is, does mix match numbers support an reason for a lower price? At this time I don’t know what numbers are on the title. The car is in Minnesota, I live in Indiana. I know the car would have to be checked out by local police, and if the numbers on the title don’t match the new looking VIN tag we have a problem. If the cop is smart about old cars, he could say the motor number and the VIN tag don’t match. They are asking 19K for the car, I think it’s worth 14k. Thanks, Fred

12-08-2021, 05:43 PM	#2
jack wingard Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2019 Location: Stoneboro PA Posts: 120	Re: Engine numbers don’t match well then, the dealer doesn't realize the engine isn't original to that particular car. If the dealer says hog wash, then have them pull off the body and show you the frame VIN which should match the title VIN. Negotiate from there.

12-08-2021, 06:02 PM	#3
Stingray70 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2021 Location: Western NC Posts: 213	Re: Engine numbers don’t match I think the consensus is that for a driver/non show car, a mismatched engine number doesn't affect the value much. Most of our cars have had engines swapped over the last 90 years. You can probably use it as a negotiating item though. If the title doesn't match that VIN tag, it will be a PITA to sort out, so that would significantly affect the cars value. JMHO __________________ 1930 Standard Coupe

12-08-2021, 08:48 PM	#4
aermotor Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,099	Re: Engine numbers don’t match I don't know about other states. In S.C. a new VIN can be issued for a Homebuilt vehicle or a "Reconstructed" vehicle. I built a speedster from a collection of model A parts and other assorted parts that I had laying around. I was able to obtain a VIN number after jumping through a few hoops starting with the DMV. The VIN inspector was not at all interested in the car - all he wanted to see was the newly issued VIN number on the firewall. The definition of reconstructed vehicle is not really defined, at any rate I have a valid VIN number, title and license plates. No more body numbers, engine numbers only the VIN number, valid in any state like any other car. John

12-08-2021, 11:35 PM	#5
eagle Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Eagle Bend, MN Posts: 2,025	Re: Engine numbers don’t match Sounds like you are wanting to play some games to lower the price. Do yourself a favor, tell them what you are willing to pay and why. Let the chips fall where they may. And for SURE, don't buy it sight unseen. Matching numbers on a Model A is quite rare if they haven't been altered to match. It might be a nice bonus if they were matching, but I'm not sure it really makes the car worth less if they aren't. If it was me I'd be more worried about a bondo body or worn out mechanicals. However, also check the title, make sure you know the hoops required to make the paperwork proper if it isn't already. Here in MN it is winter. Salt on the roads etc. Not likely you'll get to take it for a test drive, I sure wouldn't if it was mine, nor would I want salt in the crevasses of a car I was buying. __________________ "There are some that can destroy an anvil with a teaspoon and shouldn't be allowed to touch anything resembling a tool."

12-09-2021, 01:30 AM	#6
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Engine numbers don’t match Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Get the dealer to send you a picture of the dash The speedos changed from oval to round in approx june 1930 . The dealer is selling the car as a 1931 with an early 1930 VIN he would have to explain that . Could be he has not picked up on that and does not know . John in Suffolk County England . Last edited by john charlton; 12-09-2021 at 01:42 AM.

12-09-2021, 09:52 AM	#7
Chris in WNC Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Spruce Pine, NC Posts: 1,458	Re: Engine numbers don’t match Number on the title is the most critical. Engine can be re-stamped to match. If I bought a car with a state-issued VIN tag I'd throw it away as soon as I got the engine number fixed to match my new title. Before purchase, run the number on the title past the DMV to confirm it is not on a stolen list. If you live in a different state than the existing title it might get more complicated. If the title has a non-Model A number then that's a different can of worms..... __________________ our next Model A is out there in the unknown......

12-10-2021, 08:15 AM	#9
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Engine numbers don’t match The body doesn't have to be removed but it is still a PITA to lift it and pull the apron out of the way. If the frame is real crusty then there may no longer be a visible number. Forensic methods may work to bring it back up but it's always a gamble having to check the frame number. All states have different procedures for issuing a title. It would be a good idea to see what your state requires before considering such a purchase.