Not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one

[160B]

Published: 01/22/17 10:08 am EST.Updated: 01/22/17 10:10 am EST.

MARION COUNTY, Ohio - A man is dead after a crash in Marion County Sunday morning according to the Ohio State Highway Patrol.
OSHP said Thomas Young, 53, was driving a 1928 Ford Model A westbound on State Route 95 east of LaRue around 12:35 a.m. Sunday.
Young, from LaRue, drove off the right side of the road then overcorrected and drove of the left side of the road according to state troopers.
OSHP said the car hit a tree and Young was thrown from the vehicle.
Young was not wearing a seatbelt because the car did not have one according to OSHP.
Young was pronounced dead at the scene.








http://www.10tv.com/article/man-kill...-marion-county

[Synchro909]

To fit seatbelts here, they must be inspected and approved by an engineer. Most don't fit them because it is sooo dificult in our cars to meet the standards.I have fitted them but not had them inspected. I wear them every outing and if ever there was a crash, I'd consider them a 100% success if the Police took me to court over it. At least I would "be here to be there"!!!

[mike657894]

I need to get on making myself a set. Haven't got my car road worthy quite yet.(still no shocks).

[pooch]

Don't worry, inspectors over here don't know Model A/s had shocks in the first place.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by mike657894

I need to get on making myself a set. Haven't got my car road worthy quite yet.(still no shocks).

Originally Posted by pooch

Don't worry, inspectors over here don't know Model A/s had shocks in the first place.

Drove mine for years without.

[Chippy Minton]

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I'm sure many other people died on the same day despite wearing seat belts and even if they are fitted to a Model A it will never be like a modern car. Without crumple zones, collapsible steering columns and airbags all round but with 90 year old suspension and brakes an A needs driving under control all the time. I never drive my A on roads where it will be vulnerable to fast traffic, trucks and traffic density and anyway it is much more at home on the back roads. Yes, accidents may still happen but that is true when I use those same roads on my motorcycle, bicycle or even on foot.

[Synchro909]

I think there can be no doubt that our risk of accident while driving our Model As is higher than when in our modern cars. Care is essential. If I am going to be driving my A, I NEVER touch a drop of alcohol before hand. I figure I have to be right on top of my game and impairment starts with the first sip of booze.
I'm not making any suggestion that this unfortunate Model A driver was anything but sober.

[Mike V. Florida]

Here is how I figure it, could he, due to the severity of the crash, have died with one, yes. But he absolutely died without one.

[Bruce Adams]

Mine are there to keep me in, in case of the door popping open on a curve and bump, and having worn seat belts for over fifty years, I feel better with them. I remember Chevron Gas would sell and install them for $5 per set in 1965 or so.

[René W]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

I think there can be no doubt that our risk of accident while driving our Model As is higher than when in our modern cars. Care is essential. If I am going to be driving my A, I NEVER touch a drop of alcohol before hand. I figure I have to be right on top of my game and impairment starts with the first sip of booze.
I'm not making any suggestion that this unfortunate Model A driver was anything but sober.

If i understand this right you are drinking alcohol driving a modern car?
When you are driving a modern car beware of model A drivers and don't crash into them..........they are probably wearing no seat belts.

[Franchise_24]

Wow this is about 40 minutes from where I live. I don't know the name though. Prayers to the family.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by René W

If i understand this right you are drinking alcohol driving a modern car?NO!
When you are driving a modern car beware of model A drivers and don't crash into them..........they are probably wearing no seat belts.

Please don't try to twist my words.

[Smooth_One]

I'm putting them in my car! My wife and baby will be riding with me sometimes and we all want to make it home after a fun day of cruising.

[BillLee/Chandler, TX]

See http://cedarcreekas.org/TechTopics/index.php for one example of installing seatbelts in a Tudor.

[Kevin in NJ]

Originally Posted by pooch

Don't worry, inspectors over here don't know Model A/s had shocks in the first place.

It is not the inspectors that require shocks.

It has been my experience A's with good springs are not manageable above 20-25 MPH without shocks.

[JDupuis]

My condolences to Thomas Young's family and friends. Jeff

[Lona]

Plenty of threads here on installing seat belts. IMHO, every owner should have them installed. And, if you are going to do it, take the next step and install retractable shoulder belts at the same time. Seat belts alone might save you but in a head-on, you are most certainly going to leave some teeth and face parts on the steering wheel or windshield.

Glen

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

MIRACULOUSLY, I rode motorcycles for YEARS, without a seat belt, and I'm still ALIVE, to tipe this!!!
Bill Gambler

[DougVieyra]

A great many times in our lives it is extremely prudent to ignore laws.
The seat belt is one of those times.
Like many things in life, it is prudent to do things because they increase the quality of life - not because there is a 'law'.
The seat belt is one of those times.
I installed and began using seat belts in all my vehicle long before there was a law. It was not because there was a 'law' - it was because I believed it would help increase the odds of saving my life or reducing my injuries in a crash.
Currently there is a law that mandates seat belts. I do not wear seatbelts to comply with the law. I wear seatbelts because it is the prudent thing to do.
If there was a law that prohibited the wearing of seatbelts, I would ignore that law.
The seat belt is one of those times.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

MANY years back, we used seat belts, when they were available in the War Surplus Stores!
I still have U.S. Army silverwear.
Bill W.

[H. L. Chauvin]

Appears it is always a good idea to kindly remind others from time to time about Model A safety concerns and Model A safety considerations that are available.

Then, each one of us can think, try to evaluate, and try to decide what is most important with the life we are enjoying today.

Thanks for the reminder.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by Lona

Plenty of threads here on installing seat belts. IMHO, every owner should have them installed. And, if you are going to do it, take the next step and install retractable shoulder belts at the same time. Seat belts alone might save you but in a head-on, you are most certainly going to leave some teeth and face parts on the steering wheel or windshield.

Glen

At least half of the Model As here are open cars. You can't put a shoulder belt in those.....Next idea?
Well, here it is. In all of my As, I have a lap belt for each passenger and either a lap/sash belt or racing style harness for the driver. I'm usually the driver and I don't want to be impaled on the steering column. Wearing them makes me feel much safer but I know I am still not as safe as in a modern car.
I think equally important for safety is your safe driving ability/techniques

[Cornishman]

Originally Posted by Chippy Minton

I'm sure many other people died on the same day despite wearing seat belts and even if they are fitted to a Model A it will never be like a modern car. Without crumple zones, collapsible steering columns and airbags all round but with 90 year old suspension and brakes an A needs driving under control all the time. I never drive my A on roads where it will be vulnerable to fast traffic, trucks and traffic density and anyway it is much more at home on the back roads. Yes, accidents may still happen but that is true when I use those same roads on my motorcycle, bicycle or even on foot.

I go along with this. As I read it a lot of you are getting a false sense of security because you have fitted seat belts to your car. Modern cars have taken huge steps forward in crash safety and the seat belt is the tip of the iceberg. Fair enough if you have a seat belt in your A it might prevent you getting thrown out of the car but it will not stop you smashing your head on the windshield, or crushing your chest on the steering column. Nor will it protect your organs from the g forces created by the impact. Yo cannot build secondary safety into a Model A Ford so therefore you need to stay on top of the primary safety issues. In my case that's not using it in unsuitable conditions on unsuitable roads at inappropriate speeds. I keep to where the traffic will be light, the roads gentle and I can travel at my own speed in my own space. I drive carefully because I have no seat belt, air bag or crumple zones, I approach braking situations carefully because I know that I have a mechanical braking system that is connected to the road through narrow, low grip tyres. I go around bends slowly because of those same tyres and a suspension system that has more in common with a horse drawn cart than the cars that I'm used to. If I want to go far and fast I use another vehicle; my motorcycle, turbocharged Golf GTi and Porsche have most of the safety items that the 21st Century has provided and at times I rely on those items to keep me safe. The Model A is something else and I, yes me, actually feel safer because I do not have a seat belt to make me feel more protected than I know I would be if I actually had to rely on it in earnest.

[ronn]

Here is how I figure it, could he, due to the severity of the crash, have died with one, yes. But he absolutely died without one.

and at least didnt end up comatose or paralyzed for life............. because of one.

as Chippy mentions- no requirement to have a seat belt when riding a motorcycle.
we all have choices. I dont want them in my antiques-end of story!

[mhsprecher]

Here is a post from the V8 Forum. The driver had a seat belt on and was not injured.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213014

[Ted Duke]

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Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

MANY years back, we used seat belts, when they were available in the War Surplus Stores!
I still have U.S. Army silverwear.
Bill W.

Yeah Bill,

But YOU are very lucky. Right?

Ted

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

NOT RECOMMENDING THIS, but I saw a Model A with ONE continuous lap belt, from one door to the other. His idea was that it "might'" keep them from falling out of the car????
Bill W.

[Cornishman]

I see seat belts as being like the helmets that soldiers wear, they boost confidence and give the wearer a feeling of invulnerability. It is a well documented fact that after the British Army issued hard hats to all their soldiers fighting in the trenches fatalities from sniper fire increased dramatically. Before they realised that a bare head or woolly hat was no protection against a bullet but with a bit of tin on their head they believed that all would be fine.
If you want to fit a seatbelt to a Model A fine, it's a great idea, but, please, continue to drive as though you are driving without. Belt and braces.

[René W]

Originally Posted by mhsprecher

Here is a post from the V8 Forum. The driver had a seat belt on and was not injured.

https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=213014

I don.t know if i would be happy wearing a seatbelt in a crash like this,
If you are t-boned at the drivers side and you are in a seatbelt where do you go?.........nowhere,you'l get the full impact from the crashed door and sidewall.
Such a '40 Ford is more solid as a model A,when you are t-boned in a model A you can only do 1 thing...........pray........
I don't have seatbelts in my tudor and i don't want them too,i know it is not very smart but i never wear seatbelts(only if the cops are looking to avoid a ticket) in my modern car,i hate those things and take the risk..........

[5window]

My condolences to the family.

The crash occurred at 12:15AM? That might imply less than ideal driving conditions. Certainly Model A headlights are a bit less bright than modern day halogens or LEDs

Here is an excellent source for seat belts-classic styles, DOT approved, reasonable cost. Never re-use belts from a wrecking yard. http://www.andoauto.com/

[pgerhardt]

I wear my seat belt for added comfort and to help stop fuel leaks. What!? Model A seats have no side bolsters, and so it is easy to slide around a lot. The belt keeps me planted in the seat. Without it you use your grip on the steering wheel to stop sliding sideways in a turn. This applies lateral force (multiple by the lever effect of the length of the steering column drop) to the attachment point on the bottom of the fuel tank. This can lead to leaks.

[Del in NE Ohio]

If you have been around A's for anytime, you will likely agree that it doesn't take a catastrophic event for a door to open inadvertently. Especially open cars. I'll take my chances staying in the vehicle. We all know going in that we are not surrounded by the safety of modern vehicles, but we also know that we are surrounded by distracted drivers. Pay attention to your environment, traffic, be aware of distractions. I drive my A's to escape the madness. That usually means traveling by backroads, two-lanes whenever possible. My seat belts make me more secure than not. If I am confronted by a catastrophic collision, one that dislodges steering gear, etc. than my time has come, seat belt or no and I have accepted that risk by choosing to drive this antique.
RIP Mr.Young.

[Licensed to kill]

Not a fan of belts in a model A. While i certainly understand the dangers of being thrown out in an accident (which is WAY more likely in an A than a modern car), I also understand that being strapped in with the fuel tank virtually in your lap has it's inherent risks well in a accident. I don't like either consideration. As someone else mentioned, the bigger risk, IMO is being thrown out just by the door coming open in a curve (for the passenger) and for this, and this only, I would consider belts.

[Lona]

Synchro909,

Yes, you can fairly easily install three point retractable seat belts in an open car. I installed them in our roadster and they work well. For anybody interested, do a forum search or google "put 3point retractable seat belts in a roadster" or PM me.

Glen

[Ted Duke]

IMHO If you don't want seat belts, don't install them. If you don't want to wear seat belts don't wear them.

If you don't know know what to do, just read the local newspaper for reports of accidents and note the number of people thrown from their vehicles and killed (and that is in modern cars).

Several local young people died within the last year, "too cool to wear a seatbelt?" cold now, dead cold!

[AL in NY]

I'm going to put 3 point shoulder belts/seat belts in my 30 CCPU this spring. I will be replacing the wood brace across the back of the cab with a machined steel one the same size. I'll put a 1x2 steel pillar in each corner and attach it the new steel brace. That will be the upper attachment point for the shoulder belt. The height of the pillar will be 29 inches above the seat cushion, same as my S10 Blazer. I figure no sense in going half way.

[Chippy Minton]

A lot of you must have very fast As with fantastic grip. All this talk about being thrown from the car if a door flies open! You must be pulling G forces that I can only dream about.

[AL in NY]

Somebody pulls out in front of you and you hit them at 45 MPH, I dare say there are multiple G forces going to put a hurting on you!!!!!!!!!!!

[CarlG]

AL,
Be sure to take plenty of pictures. Your plan is exactly what I will want to do for my Pickup.

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Somebody pulls out in front of you and you hit them at 45 MPH, I dare say there are multiple G forces going to put a hurting on you!!!!!!!!!!!

And when that happens, as pointed out above, your seat belt is not going to offer you anything like the level of protection that many of the posters imagine it will. Is there any crash test data to show exactly what will happen to the driver and passenger in a frontal crash at any speed?

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

The height of the pillar will be 29 inches above the seat cushion, same as my S10 Blazer. I figure no sense in going half way.

I presume that you will be fitting the Blazer's air bags as well. As you say, if a job's worth doin...

[AL in NY]

Well "Chippy" - you keep tweeting that seat belts won't help you in an accident. I'll install them anyway to try and help me avoid serious injury in an accident, while your driving with your fingers crossed.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Cars need giant airbags on the front and rear bumpers that deploy when computers detect speed and distance to an approaching object are about to cause an accident. That will help save the car and occupant.

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Well "Chippy" - you keep tweeting that seat belts won't help you in an accident. I'll install them anyway to try and help me avoid serious injury in an accident, while your driving with your fingers crossed.

You are missing the point. I have no problem with you fitting and wearing seat belts in your Model A. That is your choice and probably a good choice at that. The problem is presuming that by fitting seat belts to your car you will really be helping to avoid serious injury. Fit your seat belts, wear them but please, please, please drive in the manner that you would if they where not there. Fitting seat belts in a car without crumple zones, collapsable steering columns, absorbent dash panels and airbags is a gesture, if fitting them gives you the same sense of invincibility that wearing seat belts in a modern car gives you then it is a dangerous gesture.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Chippy Minton

You are missing the point. I have no problem with you fitting and wearing seat belts in your Model A. That is your choice and probably a good choice at that. The problem is presuming that by fitting seat belts to your car you will really be helping to avoid serious injury. Fit your seat belts, wear them but please, please, please drive in the manner that you would if they where not there. Fitting seat belts in a car without crumple zones, collapsable steering columns, absorbent dash panels and airbags is a gesture, if fitting them gives you the same sense of invincibility that wearing seat belts in a modern car gives you then it is a dangerous gesture.

I fully agree with what you are saying.
Today's cars have been made so idiot proof, that people are now driving like idiots.

[CarlG]

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Whether seat belts in a Model A actually prevent injuries in an accident or not, they pacify my wife, and that in itself is priceless.

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by CarlG

Whether seat belts in a Model A actually prevent injuries in an accident or not, they pacify my wife, and that in itself is priceless.

Now that is a really sound reason for fitting them!

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by AL in NY

Well "Chippy" - you keep tweeting that seat belts won't help you in an accident. I'll install them anyway to try and help me avoid serious injury in an accident, while your driving with your fingers crossed.

By the way you haven't been reading my posts very well. I certainly won't be driving anywhere with my fingers crossed, they will be usefully engaged steering, changing gear and doing anything else that allows me to drive safely and maintain control of my car.

[5window]

Originally Posted by Chippy Minton

And when that happens, as pointed out above, your seat belt is not going to offer you anything like the level of protection that many of the posters imagine it will. Is there any crash test data to show exactly what will happen to the driver and passenger in a frontal crash at any speed?

Of course not. Again, if you don't want to wear a seat belt, don't. But, what level of added protection would you be happy with? 10%, 50%? Would you deny that a 10 per cent less chance of dying might be worthwhile? You seem pretty opposed to safety equipment.

[DJ S]

I'm going to side with Chippy, no seat belt is going to help much, if at all. Just a false sense of security.

[Licensed to kill]

Why not install air bags?. They would provide MUCH more safety than seat belts in the inherently unsafe design of the model A which isn't much more than a glorified golf cart. Seriously, if it's safety that is desired, air bags are the way to go. BTW, while being thrown out of a model A in the event of a crash is highly likely, just by design, being impaled by the steering column in a header is also very likely not to mention that you would have ZERO chance of surviving ANY crash in a model A that resulted in a fire, having the gas tank sitting on your lap and all. If you want safety, leave the model A's at home.

[Synchro909]

I haven't seen such a polarising thread for quite a while. Remember guys, keep it nice!

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by 5window

Of course not. Again, if you don't want to wear a seat belt, don't. But, what level of added protection would you be happy with? 10%, 50%? Would you deny that a 10 per cent less chance of dying might be worthwhile? You seem pretty opposed to safety equipment.

Please read my message. I am not against safety equipment and all my other
vehicles have state of the art safety features. My big concern is the feeling amongst many people that if they retro fit seat belts to their Model A, a car that was not designed around this fitting, that they are providing themselves with a huge life saving feature. They are not. Seat belts only help up to a point and in a car like a Model A that point is not much. From reading the posts I then get the impression that once seat belts are fitted the posters are confident that there A is now as safe as a modern car in modern traffic density at modern speeds. It is not and never will be.
I repeat my point: Fit seatbelts if you want, I have no issue with that. However, if you do fit seatbelts please continue to drive your Model A as though they aren't there, don't think that your modification has somehow made you invincible.

[Cornishman]

You are knocking your head against a brick wall trying to get your message across Chippy. Many of the other members are people who think that the best option for road safety is to get the biggest truck possible, strap yourself in then, when the accident happens their size and weight should mean that they receive less damage than they hand out. As I have said my primary safety feature when driving my Model A is to only drive on suitable roads with minimal traffic. Anywhere with a high likelihood of my becoming in an accident is not the place for a vintage car and if I was surrounded by fast cars and heavy lorries wearing a seat belt would give me no extra sense of security. I really can't believe that wearing a seatbelt would make an ounce of difference when the accident happens.

[pooch]

Originally Posted by BILL WILLIAMSON

NOT RECOMMENDING THIS, but I saw a Model A with ONE continuous lap belt, from one door to the other. His idea was that it "might'" keep them from falling out of the car????
Bill W.

Bill, I call that an ELVIS belt.

He has/had one of those full single right across ones on his bed (probably a king size ) in his plane in the museum across from Gracelands.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/cybermelli/4038209055

[H. L. Chauvin]

If one were to discuss having or not having Model A seat belts with one hundred Model A drivers, one may find that lots of opinions depends on the the particular individual Model A driver's "mindset" while driving.

For example:

1. Without Seat Belts: Some intelligent Model A drivers would report being a hundred times "more" cautious while driving a Model A that does "not" have seat belts because of great fear of injury or death to family members as a results of a crash; and,

2. With Seat Belts: Some intelligent Model A drivers would report being a hundred times "less" cautious while driving a Model A that "does" have seat belts because of far less fear of injury or death to family members as a results of a crash.

3. If this were the results of this case, with the opinions of this one hundred drivers, appears drivers "without" seat belts may drive far more defensively at "slower" speeds and drivers "with" seat belts may drive less defensively at "higher" speeds.

4. Based on statistics plus an individual Model A Driver's Luck, while driving on paved, higher speed highways in 2017, among texting drivers, and druggies, the Moral of this story appears to be explained in one (1) question:

As far as Model A Driver's Luck, when was the last time you won the Lottery?

[JDupuis]

September 13 1979.. Won the lottery. Met my wife that night. Living Happily Ever After.
Jeff and "Sharon"

[René W]

I drive my model a with caution to other drivers,but i'll drive it everywhere,country roads,highways,rush hour in Amsterdam i don't care.
If faster cars will pass me they must do so,if they honk as i drive too slow(i am respecting the speed limits)i give them the finger.
I don't have or wear seatbelts in my A as i think i would be saver without them as wearing them.
I live in the Netherlands,almost every road has a canal beside the road,as a former fire fighter i had the "pleasure"diving corpses out of cars who were still in there belts and died in the water because they could not get out the belt.
Once i was in a crash and landed in a canal,i did'nt wear a seatbelt and was out of the car before i get wet,at the end i stood on the roof when the car sunk and still got wet.....
Driving without seatbelts is a calculated risk,also is crossing the street,riding a bike or a motorcycle or walking the dog,if you don't pay attention you can be hit by a bus or a whatsappend soccer mom.

[H. L. Chauvin]

No matter the Model A subject, Model A owners always have the right to enjoy letting other Model A owners know:

"I did it my way!"

[DougVieyra]

The rowdy noise of these 'word fests' help keep us older guys awake and young !

And they also give us, for time to time, an opportunity for a whimsical smile.
It is the next best thing to having a small boat with a Ford man, a Chevy man, and a GM man - all trying to figure out who is going to be Captain, based on the quality and relative merits of their own favorite marque.

Of course, the boat does not go anywhere, but it IS a hellava exciting entertainment.

[JtownJoe]

It may well be "just a false sense of security" but after having them in mine for a few years I feel very vulnerable if I drive any time with out being "buckled up".

[al's28/33]

It's all speculation Gents.

Just remember anything can happen at any time.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by al's28/33

It's all speculation Gents.

Just remember anything can happen at any time.

Yep, you have to drive for yourself, and for the idiot that's trying to kill you.
Defensive driving it's called.

[holdover]

All my As have seat belts, will they save my life in an accident maybe, maybe not. The physical structure of an A is not like a modern vehicle. But I will say this in over 50 years of Fire and Rescue, I have NEVER cut a dead person out of a vehicle who was wearing a seat belt, NEVER, and that goes back to the mid-60s when they were factory installed by law. Many of the people were banged up pretty bad but alive. I am a realist and tonight when the alert goes off that might change, but I'll go with what I have seen over all those years. And to answer the questions that I am sure will be posted, some of those vehicles were some pretty shabby constructed Model A Hot-rods and 32-40 coupes and roadsters, but they had belts, and the people lived, banged up but alive. Your mileage may vary.

[Synchro909]

Originally Posted by holdover

All my As have seat belts, will they save my life in an accident maybe, maybe not. The physical structure of an A is not like a modern vehicle. But I will say this in over 50 years of Fire and Rescue, I have NEVER cut a dead person out of a vehicle who was wearing a seat belt, NEVER, and that goes back to the mid-60s when they were factory installed by law. Many of the people were banged up pretty bad but alive. I am a realist and tonight when the alert goes off that might change, but I'll go with what I have seen over all those years. And to answer the questions that I am sure will be posted, some of those vehicles were some pretty shabby constructed Model A Hot-rods and 32-40 coupes and roadsters, but they had belts, and the people lived, banged up but alive. Your mileage may vary.

We all play the odds - Life's a lottery. I prefer the odds if I'm wearing a seat belt.

[RandyinUtah]

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In 1963 dad and I were in his 55 Chevy pickup and we're hit by a fast moving freight train . Chevy did not have seat belts and we were thrown out of the truck and both lived. If we had been strapped in no way could we have survived after seeing what was left of the truck.

[Chippy Minton]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

We all play the odds - Life's a lottery. I prefer the odds if I'm wearing a seat belt.

The problem is that most people are prepared to gamble more when wearing a seat belt because they believe that the risk has been removed. Wear a seat belt but drive your A as though you haven't got one.
I ride a sports touring motorcycle and won't go fifty yards without my helmet, protective clothing and gloves. However while I am on the road I understand that I remain vulnerable and if I am involved in an incident almost anything I hit is going to do me a lot of harm. I drive my Model A in the same way. I take far more (calculated) risks in my other cars.

[bettlesr]

First ride around the block I did in mine, I wound up on the wrong side of the car on a left hand turn. Leatherette seats sure are slippery. Next trip was done with seat belts in the car.

[Karl Wescott]

Originally Posted by Synchro909

At least half of the Model As here are open cars. You can't put a shoulder belt in those.....Next idea?
Well, here it is. In all of my As, I have a lap belt for each passenger and either a lap/sash belt or racing style harness for the driver. I'm usually the driver and I don't want to be impaled on the steering column. Wearing them makes me feel much safer but I know I am still not as safe as in a modern car.
I think equally important for safety is your safe driving ability/techniques

It is possible to put retractable 3 point belts in an open car, while mine is neither A or original we did it. The package tray for the chest harness is available on roadsters and could be put in between the seat and seat frame on a phaeton.

Originally Posted by Licensed to kill

Not a fan of belts in a model A. While i certainly understand the dangers of being thrown out in an accident (which is WAY more likely in an A than a modern car), I also understand that being strapped in with the fuel tank virtually in your lap has it's inherent risks well in a accident. I don't like either consideration. As someone else mentioned, the bigger risk, IMO is being thrown out just by the door coming open in a curve (for the passenger) and for this, and this only, I would consider belts.

It is quite rare to be trapped by a seat belt and still be conscious and alert enough and not injured to badly to get out of a vehicle quickly if needed. As a volunteer firefighter I have been to many a wreck and can only recall having to cut seat belts once with the occupants having minor injury (and that car had rolled over several times and down an embankment ending up upside down where without seat belts they would have been seriously injured). And 3 point harnesses are far better than just seat belts.

I would not worry about a perfect installation in an antique car that would not have had them otherwise... 50% of something is infinitely better than nothing.

[mhsprecher]

Originally Posted by RandyinUtah

In 1963 dad and I were in his 55 Chevy pickup and we're hit by a fast moving freight train . Chevy did not have seat belts and we were thrown out of the truck and both lived. If we had been strapped in no way could we have survived after seeing what was left of the truck.

These situations do happen, but I think the statistics support the use of seatbelts vs. not. It is a matter of the odds. Would you not do something because of the 10% chance it could do you harm rather than the 90% chance that it would not? You can't predict every situation, so you have to go with what has the best chance of saving your life, and that is wearing seat belts.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by holdover

All my As have seat belts, will they save my life in an accident maybe, maybe not.

Same with a modern car, maybe save your life maybe cause your death. Do we use seatbelts in your modern car? Some do some don't. Same with the A.

In my opinion this is a foolish debate as this is no "right" answer.

[31 Model A]

I put belts in my A, they are there for anyone to use. I explain to them where the gas tank is, fuel line and how the body can separate from the frame, then I leave it up to them....they usually don't bother.