valve rotaters

[Brian]

Does anyone out there use the 1BA style valve assemblies?- with the shorter springs and special valve rotater keepers. I'm thinking of installing this system on my latest build as it only has cast iron seats on the inlets and [theoretically] should help maintain good sealing surfaces. Opinions anyone? Thanks, Brian

[Russ/40]

When I rebuilt my 8BA I used the rotator valve assemblies. They work very well, and are easy to work with. Only the most radical of cams (might) be unsuited for the shorter springs used.

[dude]

Used them on my most resent rebuild. Seems to be no problem.

[jdl]

I have used them more than once, be sure to use the 51-53 valves & springs, not the 49-50

[Brian]

Thanks guys,good to know. JDL, you raise a good point about the appropriate valves and springs. I previously mentioned the springs were shorter, I am also aware the collet groove on the valve stem is in a slightly different location than regular 8BA valves. I don't see it being much of an issue as I'll be shimming the springs to get a certain seat pressure.
Incidently, this particular engine is getting special, oversize valves that I've made, the seats have been cut bigger to accommodate the valves, and there's just no room for inserts anyway [not that the C69A block had them to start with]. Hence my original question. Russ/40, yeah, I'll only be running a stock 32 steel forged cam in this one. Dude, and it's going into a 35! Cheers, Brian

[Ol' Ron]

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I've used them several times. Have a customer With Max #1 cam and rotators, and that was along time ago. Still runs great.

[quickgene]

Has anyone swapped over the other way. Going from a roter setup to a non rotater setup by using the 52 rotater valves with 2 7/16" zepher springs and the older non rotater retainers ?

I have new zepher springs that are much longer than my old springs. I'm wondering how much stuff I need to change to use them in my rotater setup. Gene

[Ol' Ron]

The rotators would work fine with LZ springs, but the cam wouldn't last a week with the added pressure.. Most street cams don't need more than #50 lbs .

[Russ/40]

Like 'olRon said, Don't do it! The rotators need a shorter spring. You will not be able to get your spring pressures down.

[quickgene]

I know I can't put longer springs in the same space the shorter ones came out of. What answer I need is can I use the valves I have with zephyr springs ?

Can I just discard the rotater retainer parts and replace them with older one piece retainers. I know the rotater parts are longer than the single hat.

I don't belive I can use these valves with zephyr springs because the I hear the valves are to short. Thanks Gene

[Brian]

Yes you can... the keeper groove is in a slightly different place on 'rotator' valves, but if you check the spring pressures and shim accordingly, you can run that combo. Brian

[Russ/40]

You can run the old style non-rotating keepers with the 52' valves and zepher springs. You will not be doing any shimming though, as spring pressures will already be higher than normal, but should not be too high.
What I would do is assemble a single valve assembly for your intake and another for your exhaust. Install them, rotate the crank for full lift and measure the spring length. Take a spring to a machine shop and ask them what the spring pressure is at the length you measured. I have done this, and the shop was happy to do it for me, as they do my machine work.

[Ol' Ron]

The important measurement is the installed pressure. You can install a valve, guide and retainer. Make sure the retainer is in place and up tight against the block. Now measure the distance from the spring retainer and the guide. This is the installed height and should be in the 50 -55 lb fore most street cams. Example: Assume this to be 2" make a plug from a woolden dowel or some other material. Or place a stop on the drill press, using a bathroom scale, your in business.

[quickgene]

Ok,
I will ask the builder to try a one piece older retainer on my valves with the zephyr springs and see if it comes up ok. You guys have been a big help. I don't know much about flatheads. I'm glad you guys can shed some light on it. Thanks Gene

[quickgene]

I do have a 59A for parts. Two questions.

1. Can I just use the retainers out of the 59A on the shorter 52 valves with
Zephyr springs ?

2. If I get to high of spring pressure using shorter 52 valves can I use 59A valves & retainers with Zephyr springs in the 52 engine ? Gene

[jdl]

the 59 A valves have a musroom stem unless they were changed at some point. also they have a different retainer. so no you can't use um, as you describe.

[quickgene]

Double Dang, It would have been nice if when I ordered this kit from Reds they had the right info. I asked them if it fit 52 engine. They said this kit with Zephyr springs fit 49-53. Then I asked the spring hight they said they didn't know but they fit 49-53. They were right to a point. But they will only fit 52-53 if someone changed the other parts to 49-51 stuff.
Back tomorrow to deal with builder, he gets pissed when I come with wrong parts and a hand full of info. He says just get what parts I tell you to get and forget about those web sites. Gene

[quickgene]

I went the the see the builder today with what parts I bought. If turns out somehow I got the impression that he told me my springs were 2.20" free length. They are not, my old springs are 2.48 free length. The valves do measure 4 1/2" from the face to the beginning of the groove. That should be the short 52 valves if there is such a thing. I also had one piece retainers allready not 2 piece rotaters. That's why he said they are not rotaters. Because they are not. He did a mock up with the new Zephyr springs and with the installed spring height he got a 54 lb spring pressure. That should be fine.

He checked my old valves against a chey valve and the groove is in very close to the same spot but the total length is longer on the chevy valve.
There only about a 1/4" space between the valve and the block. So there is no room for longer valves anyway. So I can keep my valves. It apears that with the parts I have now it is perfect. I don't know how I got the idea that I had 2.20" valves in the first place. Other than he looked at the 52 valves in the book and found out they had shorter springs. Thanks for the help-I think I'm ok now Gene

[Russ/40]

Yup, your OK. Just as we said you'd be.