How loud is too loud for gears?

[29tudorsedan]

Would you guys mind giving this a listen? I'm not sure if first and second are abnormally loud, and what steps should be taken if they are. Thanks!

http://youtu.be/fET_fwNCKow

[Special Coupe Frank]

I've only driven one A - my coupe in the avatar, and its first and second are pretty loud, maybe not quite as loud as yours.

Generally speaking, you should hear some whine from the straight-cut gears, but no other "rockiness"...

My opinion is that the needle bearings on the countershafts are worn.

At any rate, the tranny should probably be opened-up and checked-out.

Any idea what gear lube is in it?

[29tudorsedan]

Not sure, I haven't changed fluids in it since I've owned it, what would you/do you go with?

[Peter J]

Lots of folks use what's called 600W (not weight) gear oil. You can get it through most the suppliers. Some folks use a mix of gear oil and STP. I'm presently using 85-140 and frankly can't tell the difference althought others say they can. You might want to flush it with diesel and see what comes out the bottom (metal chunks?) and refill with your choice up to the bottom of the filler hole.
Hope this helps a little,
Pete

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Have you checked the oil level? I agree a whine is normal(and cool) but your noise needs to be checked out. You will get several opinions on the type. It needs to be thick. Some use 600w ford originally used, others use different concoctions, I use straight 90/140 gear oil. Chuck

[Allanw]

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Ours has a similar noise to yours in second only... although I would swear it's quieter now. We changed the oil a while back, and it's made it less "scary" sounding. It's not obtrusive, but noticably louder in second than 1st or 3rd.

Can't really offer an opinion on whether it'll grenade or not, but the right amount of the correct oil might help I got the 600W from Macs. I've heard the 600W is about the same viscosity as 250 weight gear oil, but can't verify that as fact.

[Special Coupe Frank]

For a first-step, I would recommend getting some true 600-weight gear oil, from someplace like Snyders, Brattons, or Bert's, driving the car around the neighborhood for 15 minutes or so ( going through the gears ) to warm the oil up, then draining whatever is in there now ( overnight, if you can), then re-filling with the 600-weight.

The original type heavy gear oil DOES make a difference in how the transmission shifts ( less clashing of gears ). It won't do much to silence worn bearings, but might quiet worn gears for a while.

I wouldn't worry too much about your tranny "grenading"... I've driven my A for 4 years / 8,000 miles with a growly transmission...

I would like it to be quiet, but at least it hasn't exploded or locked-up.

[Mitch//pa]

Originally Posted by 29tudorsedan

Not sure, I haven't changed fluids in it since I've owned it, what would you/do you go with?

get the fuid from the suppliers and change the trans and diff fluids. i dont quite understand why alot of individuals acquire a car and dont even go over the basics such as servicing the fluids. why take a risk of driving something that is low on fluid or has water in it and create more damage. it takes about 1/2 hr to do both
as mentioned change the fluids and drive it

[BrianBurkert]

A friend of mine assembled a transmission with good used parts. Thus, all bearings and gears were checked out. However, the parts were from different transmissions and the gears had different wear patterns on them. Even though he tried to use the best looking gears and bearings, his transmission growled a lot like yours. If a transmission is rebuilt and old gears are reused, it it best to use a nice looking complete original set from a complete original transmission... that way the gears are worn together and have a nice mesh.

[eagle]

Doesn't sound too bad to me, sounds like a smooth whine...?? tough to hear on my laptop. I would definitely change out the fluid. While you're at it change out the rear end fluid as well. Wheel bearings should also be greased/packed periodically. I use Lucas products, get them at your local Napa store. Its great stuff, smoothed out my transmission and made for easier shifting.

[Ron Lowe]

When I bought my A, brought it home and checked the trans. and it was almost empty of fluid. Drain yours and flush it out good and fill with correct oil from the vendors. I think you'll be very surprised. Oh and don't forget the rear end.

[Smurkey]

Sounds like mine does and I had mine open last year and all looks well. It was nearly empty and "muddy" looking at first after probably 50 years since last service. Cleaned it out well and refilled.

That whine is (in my opinion) just the straight-cut gears. But I agree with those that say to clean out (rinse out with kerosene) and change the oil.

[Big John]

worn and pitted gears can cause a whine, etc....

[Tom Wesenberg]

I didn't hear anything other than the usual noise of spur gears. As Mitch said, be sure to drain and refill with the right oil. The first thing I do whenever I buy a car is change all the fluids and check the brakes. The only time I didn't check the rear end oil was when I was in El Paso in the Army, and I bought a 1962 Corvan. It was mint with a rebuilt motor and I bought it for only $150 because the motor missed on 2 cylinders. I adjusted the too tight rocker arms, and it was perfect. I changed all the fluids, except the rear end. I planned to do that when I drove it home on leave. I got into the middle of New Mexico and the rear end locked up due to lack of oil. It locked so sudden and complete that I didn't even have time to pull off the road. I had a pump oil can and a quart of motor oil, so I filled the rear end with it, let it cool for 30 minutes, then kept popping the clutch forward and reverse. I finally got it to move, but it sounded like a broken down threshing machine. I got to the middle of Kansas and it let go completely.

I got towed to the Chevy garage parking lot, where they let me the rear end in their parking lot, as I didn't have enough money to pay them. I found a good used rear end for $10 in a Corvair where the engine had been sold. Using my spare tire and sissors jack, I was able to change the rear end and get back on the road. The rear end ratio was now 3.27 from the car, instead of the 3.54 for the Corvan, but at least I could drive again. This was a tough lesson just for not checking the oil level right off the bat. And, would you believe this is the only time I didn't check this one item, and this is the only time it was really needed. Any time I gamble, I loose.

[Allanw]

Just be aware, as said above - the "600W" oil is NOT 600 weight.

[Duffy1]

Sounds like a model a transmission .
On another topic. Have you greased the u-joint ? My 31 was bone dry when I purchased it .

[columbiA]

High gear seems to have a clunking noise to me.!st & 2nd only seem slightly noisier than a perfect trans with spur gears.Check the rear end for oil or broken pieces when you change the oil in it.And as said,grease the U-joint well thru fitting on rear brg retainer on trans.Drop the speedo drive hsg & grease until it comes out the speedo hole.With the speedo drive off,try pushing the DS up & down with a large screw driver & see how much side play there is.If more than about.015" you will likely need a new front DS brg & sleeve & brg surface on DS could be worn.

[ronn]

Ear Muffs at Penneys....

are they still in business?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by ronn

Ear Muffs at Penneys....

are they still in business?

I have a good wrench that has Pennys on it. I just barely remember when Pennys sold tools. I still miss Wards and their tools.

[RonC]

Change your fluid as others have recommended. 2nd gear does not sound good but could be the fluid. I use texaco 650T 1000 Cylinder Oil. The transmission in this car has never been rebuilt and doesn't leak that bad. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMeHUTw9jkk

[RHD]

Through the years, I have driven many Model 'A's, restored and unrestored. Most of the restored cars have gearboxes with noises ranging from reasonably noisy to fairly quiet. One or two cars really stand out, with one 1930 Phaeton being exceptional. I knew the owner well, now deceased. The car had one owner when my friend purchased it in 1965 and it did not really need restoring, having done around 58,000 miles. The original owner would not take it out in the rain and treated it well. The body was repainted it’s original colors and the seat were re-upholstered. The body was not lifted purposely from the frame and the doors closed exceptionally well with just a slight click. Perfect. The gearbox, diff and engine were not touched at that stage with the engine having a valve grind before it was purchased. That is when I first drove the car. The gearbox could only be called outstanding. The gears were very quiet, hardly a sound and gear change was a breeze. Unknown is the grade of oil in the gearbox. I commented to the owner on how quiet the gears were and he thought they were nothing exceptional as this was the way they were supposed to sound, and I expect he was correct. He thought that most gearbox problems arose through only 3 things.
1. Incorrect gear oil.
2. Gear oil not being changed at regular intervals.
3. Incorrect gear changes where the gears were engaged at too high a speed or the driver was in too much of a hurry to change gears. This grating of the gears caused very small particles of metal to be removed, getting into the bearings over time, making matters worse.
I did some 40 miles that day with the owner going to sleep. It felt great to be trusted with such a magnificent car.

I also had the chance to drive a 1929 Phaeton displayed in a local museum. The museum curator had no idea how to start the car or even drive it. He asked what those funny levers did behind the steering wheel and said when he turned the ignition key nothing happened. Should we push start it? That about says it all. I started the car, which took a bit of starting and got it out onto the road. What a beautiful gearbox. Hardly any noise and a very clean gear change. I am quite sure that all Model ‘A’s would have sounded like that when new. Today with some (but not all) ‘shoddy’ new gears around we cannot expect miracles. To my surprise that 29 Phaeton steered a lot better than expected. Fitted with a 7 tooth box, it steered a lot better than some 2 tooth cars I have driven. Again the mileage was reasonably low, from memory around 69,000. I doubt if the steering box had ever been removed.

I have a NOS complete gearbox to install in my 1930 Standard Roadster. It will be very interesting to see how it sounds. I am going to use Shell Omala 320 gear oil which I have used in all my Model ‘A’s through the years with a little antifriction additive added.

[29tudorsedan]

Just got through with changing engine oil, and 600W in transmission (almost dry, and a little dusting of metal shavings in the tiny puddle of oil that was in it), rear end was filled but oil was pretty spent, so far up and down the driveway to go to the other side of the garage was like driving a different car, much better. Thanks a lot! Will have a better verdict after finishing greasing the fittings and taking a nice drive.