The Ford Barn

GaryU. · 05-19-2016, 04:13 AM

Was looking on Craigslist Sunday evening when I spotted an ad that said those magic words Ford flathead and even better- FREE!! It took just a few seconds to make the call and I now own this raised deck flatty that was pulled from a 1940 2 door sedan a few days prior. That car is another great story and the owner is a new Barn member so hopefully he'll post something about his new car. Anyway I have looked at previous threads about the raised deck engines from 1941-42 and am wondering if this engine started out as a 221 c.i. engine with sleeves that were pulled and it was bored out to its present size or if it was always a 239. The center water passages made me think that was the the case as well as a rebuild tag listing bore as standard. Any thoughts appreciated and even though it is stuck it appears a viable block so far. Thanks,Gary

Terry,OH · 05-19-2016, 05:34 AM

I have found some vague reference (by Ford) to the introduction of a new block in the 1940 production. So the raised deck MAY have started during the 40 production??? If you clean the top of the block look for stampings such as "SL" this would indicate the sleeves were inserted at Ford before the block went into a vehicle. The sleeves used were 0.040" wall thickness. There was a recess machined at the top of the cylinder to accept a flange at the top of the sleeve so the sleeve could not move after engine assembly. It was not uncommon for Ford to use the sleeves in one or two cylinders even during 1939. Of course the sleeves could have been inserted by the rebuilder but I would doubt the rebuilder would have stamped the top of the block.

rotorwrench · 05-19-2016, 06:41 AM

The center coolant port in the deck tells the story. The 99A & later 239 types have a round port in the center. It was pretty easy to remove tin can sleeves and bore the thing to 3 3/16" which is a stock bore size for the 239 but not the 221.

RobR'35 · 05-19-2016, 07:17 AM

Interesting... I live near Escanaba.
Great find GaryU.

Kube · 05-19-2016, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

I have found some vague reference (by Ford) to the introduction of a new block in the 1940 production. So the raised deck MAY have started during the 40 production??? If you clean the top of the block look for stampings such as "SL" this would indicate the sleeves were inserted at Ford before the block went into a vehicle. The sleeves used were 0.040" wall thickness. There was a recess machined at the top of the cylinder to accept a flange at the top of the sleeve so the sleeve could not move after engine assembly. It was not uncommon for Ford to use the sleeves in one or two cylinders even during 1939. Of course the sleeves could have been inserted by the rebuilder but I would doubt the rebuilder would have stamped the top of the block.

Raised decks were released around August, 1940. Too late to have been installed in to '40 production.

GaryU. · 05-19-2016, 10:53 AM

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Will look for SL markings tonight. Sorry I didn't post a better picture of center water passages,they indicate Ford,center outlet is not round. Remember a previous thread about raised decks and Ol'Ron's post about removing sleeves and boring to achieve 239 c.i. So that is probably what happened in this case.

Bruce Lancaster · 05-19-2016, 11:38 AM

Look closely at top edges of your bores...I think a see a step at top, which should prove to be a machined notch when you clean it. That step is normally left after a 221 tin can is rebored to 239, as it is the locator that accepts the retaining ridge at top of the sleeve.
Motor is already noted as a former 221 by the water passages, the step shows it was a tin can...which is kind or irrelevant, since either type of '41 221 can generally go to 239 and probably have enough meat for a rebuild or two.

scooder · 05-20-2016, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GaryU.

Will look for SL markings tonight. Sorry I didn't post a better picture of center water passages,they indicate Ford,center outlet is not round. Remember a previous thread about raised decks and Ol'Ron's post about removing sleeves and boring to achieve 239 c.i. So that is probably what happened in this case.

No probably about it, it is a 221 Ford block that's been bored to 239.
Martin.

Bluebell · 05-20-2016, 07:32 PM

It is not a "raised" deck. Henry lowered the rest of the top face leaving the manifold face to appear raised.

Edit: Sorry Gary, I didn't mean to say that with a bad tone. I will try harder next time.
Regards,
Lynn.

05-19-2016, 04:13 AM	#1
GaryU. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin Posts: 821	Raised deck flathead/239 c.i./Mercury? Was looking on Craigslist Sunday evening when I spotted an ad that said those magic words Ford flathead and even better- FREE!! It took just a few seconds to make the call and I now own this raised deck flatty that was pulled from a 1940 2 door sedan a few days prior. That car is another great story and the owner is a new Barn member so hopefully he'll post something about his new car. Anyway I have looked at previous threads about the raised deck engines from 1941-42 and am wondering if this engine started out as a 221 c.i. engine with sleeves that were pulled and it was bored out to its present size or if it was always a 239. The center water passages made me think that was the the case as well as a rebuild tag listing bore as standard. Any thoughts appreciated and even though it is stuck it appears a viable block so far. Thanks,Gary

05-19-2016, 05:34 AM	#2
Terry,OH Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 4,751	Re: Raised deck flathead/239 c.i./Mercury? I have found some vague reference (by Ford) to the introduction of a new block in the 1940 production. So the raised deck MAY have started during the 40 production??? If you clean the top of the block look for stampings such as "SL" this would indicate the sleeves were inserted at Ford before the block went into a vehicle. The sleeves used were 0.040" wall thickness. There was a recess machined at the top of the cylinder to accept a flange at the top of the sleeve so the sleeve could not move after engine assembly. It was not uncommon for Ford to use the sleeves in one or two cylinders even during 1939. Of course the sleeves could have been inserted by the rebuilder but I would doubt the rebuilder would have stamped the top of the block.

05-19-2016, 06:41 AM	#3
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Raised deck flathead/239 c.i./Mercury? The center coolant port in the deck tells the story. The 99A & later 239 types have a round port in the center. It was pretty easy to remove tin can sleeves and bore the thing to 3 3/16" which is a stock bore size for the 239 but not the 221.

05-19-2016, 07:17 AM	#4
RobR'35 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Upper Peninsula, Michigan Posts: 604	Re: Raised deck flathead/239 c.i./Mercury? Interesting... I live near Escanaba. Great find GaryU.

05-19-2016, 10:53 AM	#6
GaryU. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin Posts: 821	Re: Raised deck flathead/239 c.i./Mercury? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Will look for SL markings tonight. Sorry I didn't post a better picture of center water passages,they indicate Ford,center outlet is not round. Remember a previous thread about raised decks and Ol'Ron's post about removing sleeves and boring to achieve 239 c.i. So that is probably what happened in this case.

05-19-2016, 11:38 AM	#7
Bruce Lancaster Member Emeritus Join Date: May 2010 Location: Madison, NJ Posts: 5,230	Re: Raised deck flathead/239 c.i./Mercury? Look closely at top edges of your bores...I think a see a step at top, which should prove to be a machined notch when you clean it. That step is normally left after a 221 tin can is rebored to 239, as it is the locator that accepts the retaining ridge at top of the sleeve. Motor is already noted as a former 221 by the water passages, the step shows it was a tin can...which is kind or irrelevant, since either type of '41 221 can generally go to 239 and probably have enough meat for a rebuild or two.

05-20-2016, 07:32 PM	#9
Bluebell Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tauranga, New Zealand Posts: 726	Re: Raised deck flathead/239 c.i./Mercury? It is not a "raised" deck. Henry lowered the rest of the top face leaving the manifold face to appear raised. Edit: Sorry Gary, I didn't mean to say that with a bad tone. I will try harder next time. Regards, Lynn. Last edited by Bluebell; 05-21-2016 at 06:28 AM.