The Ford Barn

RalphG · 09-26-2016, 10:35 PM

Been tearing up the driveway gravel with the 52 Merc doing comparisons between running with or without the air cleaner . I don't need a stop watch or speedometer to measure the difference. The old 255 (Mercomatic) feels like it nearly doubles the horsepower without the air cleaner. I've checked everything I can without literally cutting the air cleaner open. Oil level is right on. Screen appears to be clear and open. I'm starting to think about possible conversion to the newer style paper element. Although I know Ford (and others) used the oil bath cleaners for years and they worked.

Drbrown · 09-26-2016, 11:01 PM

I've been thinking about the paper filter option too. I know the oil catches stuff but I'm inclined to think a paper filter would catch more. Of course that might mean its slowing down the incoming air more too .... always trade-offs with these debates.

When I ran my 59AB with and without a filter once I had to get the vacuum gauge out and readjust the carb each time. Did make a difference.

ford38v8 · 09-26-2016, 11:40 PM

Ralph, I have two observations for you.
First, the additional noise of running without the filter can be misleading regarding power.
Second, you are one hell of a good photographer.

RalphG · 09-27-2016, 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Ralph, I have two observations for you.
First, the additional noise of running without the filter can be misleading regarding power.
Second, you are one hell of a good photographer.

Thanks for that Alan, but it really is more than just a different sound. In fact I don't notice the extra air sound except under the hood. Its more a feel, throttle response and just flat out acceleration without the air cleaner. With the air cleaner installed the car is just lethargic and weak.

51 MERC-CT · 09-27-2016, 10:30 AM

Have you thoroughly cleaned the horse hair filter element with grease removing dish soap or suitable detergent?

19Fordy · 09-27-2016, 10:55 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by ford38v8

Ralph, I have two observations for you.
First, the additional noise of running without the filter can be misleading regarding power.
Second, you are one hell of a good photographer.

RalphG: It would be neat to take that same photo in black and white
and post them side by side. Give it a try.

51 MERC-CT · 09-27-2016, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

RalphG: It would be neat to take that same photo in black and white
and post them side by side. Give it a try.

Your choise B&W or Sepia

RalphG · 09-27-2016, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 51 MERC-CT

Have you thoroughly cleaned the horse hair filter element with grease removing dish soap or suitable detergent?

I just ran some gas through it. High pressure blow gun. It really did not look dirty. I'll need to do another test. Working on a video to show the difference but it may take a while.

rotorwrench · 09-27-2016, 01:31 PM

The oil bath filters usually don't restrict air flow all that much. Maybe just a bit more than a pleated paper filter. I'm more familiar with the 885 carbs like my 51 cars have but I wonder if the air filter is interfering with something on that top float carb. Bowl vent or something, I don't know. My number 1 Merc runs real good with that big old tank of a filter on it. I've run it without but I couldn't tell any difference. As heavy as the old car is, it will really get up and go. It likely helps having the overdrive though. They have a gear ratio that will zip it right down the road but it needs the overdrive to get the top end.

RalphG · 09-27-2016, 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The oil bath filters usually don't restrict air flow all that much. Maybe just a bit more than a pleated paper filter. I'm more familiar with the 885 carbs like my 51 cars have but I wonder if the air filter is interfering with something on that top float carb. Bowl vent or something, I don't know. My number 1 Merc runs real good with that big old tank of a filter on it. I've run it without but I couldn't tell any difference. As heavy as the old car is, it will really get up and go. It likely helps having the overdrive though. They have a gear ratio that will zip it right down the road but it needs the overdrive to get the top end.

My 52 has a 3.31 axle with the Mercomatic. Without the air cleaner it will spin the wheels on takeoff in Drive. With air cleaner on it won't even scratch up gravel in Low. Big big difference for reasons I have yet to detemine. Maybe I need a "K&N filter"?

STEVE O · 09-27-2016, 03:06 PM

Different vehicle but when my brother worked in a shop they got a 66 Econoline with the 170 6 cylinder. After it drove them crazy trying to find the problem with no power they finally found it was the oil bath air cleaner. So Ralph you probably have the second one that I have ever heard of in my 40 some years of messing with old cars!

mhsprecher · 09-27-2016, 03:33 PM

I would suspect that an oil bath would have less restriction than a paper filter, but that is just a guess. I would also think that it would not filter as well as a paper filter, so a change might help keep the oil cleaner and add some longevity to the engine. A K&N filter might be the best.

ford38v8 · 09-27-2016, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhsprecher

I would suspect that an oil bath would have less restriction than a paper filter, but that is just a guess. I would also think that it would not filter as well as a paper filter, so a change might help keep the oil cleaner and add some longevity to the engine. A K&N filter might be the best.

K&N enjoys a good reputation, but you must remember it's the total square inches of available filtering material that is the most important factor in any filter selection.

KGS · 09-27-2016, 04:15 PM

Probably a long shot, but maybe the air cleaner is somehow
restricting the movement of the accelerator linkage or the linkage
to the transmission. Ken

rotorwrench · 09-27-2016, 05:55 PM

The oil level in the filter housing is right at the point that incoming air has to percolate through it but just barely. The military used to use them on just about everything. I've removed more dirt from oil bath tubs than I care to remember since it all settles to the bottom to a hard clay like deposit. It's a nasty enough job that I can see why the industry changed over to the pleated paper types for ease of service.

We use the K&N type filters in some of the helicopters but they are more of a chore to clean than the oil bath. They charge a good bit for the cleaning soap and the fancy oil that has to be sprayed on after they dry out. They are a good filter but also a job not much different than the old oil bath. Folks have a tendency to go too long on them between servicing so the rag paper starts to get little perforations in it where the dirt can get through. The mechanic is supposed to find these little perforations and use a pointed tool like an awl to carefully rearrange the paper material to cover the holes. With all this I can say they start out to be good filters but eventually will let as much dirt get by as any other filter would if care is not taken to properly maintain them.

RalphG · 09-27-2016, 11:51 PM

I can not see any points of interference between the air cleaner and carburetor. Have to admit I don't know much at all about the K&N filters but heard the name mentioned many times. Ordinary paper type filters are on all the newer ag equipment I run and they pull a lot more air than a 255 flathead.
Currently busy running the ag equipment so the Merc goes on the back burner til the next rainy day. Thanks for all the replies so far.

Brendan · 09-28-2016, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ford38v8

K&N enjoys a good reputation, but you must remember it's the total square inches of available filtering material that is the most important factor in any filter selection.

i put a K and N filter on my 36 pickup, with a 21 stud motor. you could tell the difference right away, as you crank the motor over . you could hear it breath!

corvette8n · 09-28-2016, 11:01 AM

Ralph, I think you need a supercharger on that beast. Lol.

OhioRick · 09-28-2016, 12:01 PM

K&N filters may work well in an overhead cam engine but I was underwhelmed putting two on my 94's. They may filter well put I seen loss in horsepower.
From then on I've stopped running a normal filter and use a piece of women's nylons.
Changing it regularly. Difference is night and day.

scooder · 09-29-2016, 05:41 PM

I've changed from the paper type filters that come in the little louvred (sp?) chrome type cheap 4" air cleaners, to K&N filters of the same dimensions, fitted back inside the louvred chrome things and noticed a good difference. Importantly the paper ones I originally had in mine, the pleats were squashed up together stupid tight, thus a big difference. After I tried same size and fit paper elements with correctly spaced pleats, same power as K&N. Then removed the chrome dome,and plopped a flat lid on the top of the filter so the whole element was open to the big wide world. Much better! Compared good paper element with K&N, K&N slightly better. No air cleaner, with carbs open up high in hoodless engine bay, slightly down on top end high speed. I suspect due to buffeting around the open carb mouths upsetting the metering.
So I'm a bit surprised by Ohio Ricks findings, unless he didn't try ridding the chrome dome? It doesn't matter a jot where the valves are placed, over or under the head, in fair testing the restriction caused by a K&N filter is pretty much nothing, in fact on a flow bench sometimes the tested carb will flow slightly more with the K&N than no filter at all! I'm sure they don't filter as good as a good paper one, but they do flow more.
Oil bath air filters are Damn good at filtering, probably best of all, but the cleaning properly is a time consuming chore, this is why they went out of favour, service hours, not ability. I'll agree with rotorwrench, doing a proper clean and dry and re oil on a K&N is also a chore, in my opinion more of a chore than oil bath filters.
Ralf,
I think if your power is as different as you say, with and without, that filter has to be blocked up somewhat. Sometimes you just can't seem to get them clean, no matter how much dunking you do. So you can open it up and pull all the mesh n shmit out and repack, or gut it and fit a good paper or K&N style element.
Earlier you mentioned this difference, and it was pointed out that removing the air cleaner opened up a vacuum port to the power valve?? Can't find it now, what came of this? I ask as I have no experience of the teapot carb.
Martin.

09-26-2016, 11:01 PM	#2
Drbrown Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: Glens Falls NY Posts: 1,267	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner I've been thinking about the paper filter option too. I know the oil catches stuff but I'm inclined to think a paper filter would catch more. Of course that might mean its slowing down the incoming air more too .... always trade-offs with these debates. When I ran my 59AB with and without a filter once I had to get the vacuum gauge out and readjust the carb each time. Did make a difference.

09-26-2016, 11:40 PM	#3
ford38v8 Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 6,645	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner Ralph, I have two observations for you. First, the additional noise of running without the filter can be misleading regarding power. Second, you are one hell of a good photographer. __________________ Alan

09-27-2016, 01:31 PM	#9
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner The oil bath filters usually don't restrict air flow all that much. Maybe just a bit more than a pleated paper filter. I'm more familiar with the 885 carbs like my 51 cars have but I wonder if the air filter is interfering with something on that top float carb. Bowl vent or something, I don't know. My number 1 Merc runs real good with that big old tank of a filter on it. I've run it without but I couldn't tell any difference. As heavy as the old car is, it will really get up and go. It likely helps having the overdrive though. They have a gear ratio that will zip it right down the road but it needs the overdrive to get the top end.

09-27-2016, 03:06 PM	#11
STEVE O Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: QUICKSBURG VA Posts: 707	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner Different vehicle but when my brother worked in a shop they got a 66 Econoline with the 170 6 cylinder. After it drove them crazy trying to find the problem with no power they finally found it was the oil bath air cleaner. So Ralph you probably have the second one that I have ever heard of in my 40 some years of messing with old cars! Last edited by STEVE O; 09-27-2016 at 06:19 PM.

09-27-2016, 03:33 PM	#12
mhsprecher Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Takoma Park, MD Posts: 2,817	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner I would suspect that an oil bath would have less restriction than a paper filter, but that is just a guess. I would also think that it would not filter as well as a paper filter, so a change might help keep the oil cleaner and add some longevity to the engine. A K&N filter might be the best.

09-27-2016, 04:15 PM	#14
KGS Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Schooley's Mountain Posts: 530	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner Probably a long shot, but maybe the air cleaner is somehow restricting the movement of the accelerator linkage or the linkage to the transmission. Ken

09-27-2016, 05:55 PM	#15
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner The oil level in the filter housing is right at the point that incoming air has to percolate through it but just barely. The military used to use them on just about everything. I've removed more dirt from oil bath tubs than I care to remember since it all settles to the bottom to a hard clay like deposit. It's a nasty enough job that I can see why the industry changed over to the pleated paper types for ease of service. We use the K&N type filters in some of the helicopters but they are more of a chore to clean than the oil bath. They charge a good bit for the cleaning soap and the fancy oil that has to be sprayed on after they dry out. They are a good filter but also a job not much different than the old oil bath. Folks have a tendency to go too long on them between servicing so the rag paper starts to get little perforations in it where the dirt can get through. The mechanic is supposed to find these little perforations and use a pointed tool like an awl to carefully rearrange the paper material to cover the holes. With all this I can say they start out to be good filters but eventually will let as much dirt get by as any other filter would if care is not taken to properly maintain them. Last edited by rotorwrench; 09-28-2016 at 09:31 AM.

09-28-2016, 11:01 AM	#18
corvette8n Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: 36 miles north of Albany NY Posts: 2,951	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner Ralph, I think you need a supercharger on that beast. Lol.

09-28-2016, 12:01 PM	#19
OhioRick Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ohio Posts: 175	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner K&N filters may work well in an overhead cam engine but I was underwhelmed putting two on my 94's. They may filter well put I seen loss in horsepower. From then on I've stopped running a normal filter and use a piece of women's nylons. Changing it regularly. Difference is night and day.

09-29-2016, 05:41 PM	#20
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: Still With The Air Cleaner I've changed from the paper type filters that come in the little louvred (sp?) chrome type cheap 4" air cleaners, to K&N filters of the same dimensions, fitted back inside the louvred chrome things and noticed a good difference. Importantly the paper ones I originally had in mine, the pleats were squashed up together stupid tight, thus a big difference. After I tried same size and fit paper elements with correctly spaced pleats, same power as K&N. Then removed the chrome dome,and plopped a flat lid on the top of the filter so the whole element was open to the big wide world. Much better! Compared good paper element with K&N, K&N slightly better. No air cleaner, with carbs open up high in hoodless engine bay, slightly down on top end high speed. I suspect due to buffeting around the open carb mouths upsetting the metering. So I'm a bit surprised by Ohio Ricks findings, unless he didn't try ridding the chrome dome? It doesn't matter a jot where the valves are placed, over or under the head, in fair testing the restriction caused by a K&N filter is pretty much nothing, in fact on a flow bench sometimes the tested carb will flow slightly more with the K&N than no filter at all! I'm sure they don't filter as good as a good paper one, but they do flow more. Oil bath air filters are Damn good at filtering, probably best of all, but the cleaning properly is a time consuming chore, this is why they went out of favour, service hours, not ability. I'll agree with rotorwrench, doing a proper clean and dry and re oil on a K&N is also a chore, in my opinion more of a chore than oil bath filters. Ralf, I think if your power is as different as you say, with and without, that filter has to be blocked up somewhat. Sometimes you just can't seem to get them clean, no matter how much dunking you do. So you can open it up and pull all the mesh n shmit out and repack, or gut it and fit a good paper or K&N style element. Earlier you mentioned this difference, and it was pointed out that removing the air cleaner opened up a vacuum port to the power valve?? Can't find it now, what came of this? I ask as I have no experience of the teapot carb. Martin.