Brake adjustment

[Ricosan]

Hey Guys,
I’ve searched everywhere for information about adjusting these brakes. I can’t find anything that clearly shows the process.
Do I adjust from the top or the bottoms or both?
Richard

[Mart]

Normally from the bottom.

Sometimes the top stud is adjustable, but once set to suit the shoes would not be adjusted again. So assuming that is right, the adjustment is at the bottom.

What does your car use for a thrust washer at the kingpins?

Mart.

[tubman]

It looks like the thrust washer is just plain missing to me. There seems to be a corresponding "empty" area under the axle. That should be corrected!

[rich b]

Looks like a Torrington needle thrust washer set-up on the bottom side of the axle.

Adjustment should be made to the top anchor pin during initial set-up and further adjustments made at the bottom as the shoes wear.

[Ricosan]

Tubman & Mart, Yea, I know there is something very wrong with the steering. Help me to understand your concerns with the thrust washer.
What do the thrust washers look like? What purpose do they serve? Will I have to disassemble the king pins to install the them?
Rich, thanks for the instructions.
Richard

[tubman]

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Originally Posted by rich b

Looks like a Torrington needle thrust washer set-up on the bottom side of the axle...................

Everything that I've heard about Torrington bearings in this application has been negative (if that's even that's what they are).

[Flathead Fever]

No self-energizing brakes from the 1960s and newer that I ever worked on at work had an adjustable top anchor, just the star wheel on the bottom. If this one was adjustable, I would think it would have a spot for a wrench to rotate the stud and hold it in place while you lock down the nut. Adjust it by turning the star wheel with a brake spoon or possibly a screwdriver until the drums locks up and then back it off until you don't hear the shoes dragging. Count the star teeth as you back it off and then try to make the opposite drum backed off the same number of teeth. You want the shoes to contact at the same time, so they stop straight. On brakes that are self-adjusting you need to push the self-adjusting arm back away from the star wheel to be able to backoff the adjustment. Those adjusters can rust up and become hard to turn. Every brake job, we took them apart, wire brushed the threads and put never seize or synthetic disc brake caliper slide grease on them. Especially the mountain vehicles up in the snow.

On a daily driver there should be a rubber plug over that adjuster hole to keep mud from getting inside your brakes.

You must use the king-pin set for the year of the spindles. If I remember correctly, those '32-'34 spindles and kingpins should have the bearing on top of the spindle. The later spindles have the bearing between the bottom of the axle and the spindle which makes more sense to me.

[rich b]

Originally Posted by Ricosan

Tubman & Mart, Yea, I know there is something very wrong with the steering. Help me to understand your concerns with the thrust washer.
What do the thrust washers look like? What purpose do they serve? Will I have to disassemble the king pins to install the them?
Rich, thanks for the instructions.
Richard

The needle thrust bearings along with a flat "race" on the top and bottom go between the bottom of the axle and the lower boss on the spindle.

This replaces the stock bearing arrange which isn't compatible with Lincoln brakes.

When I looked at your post, I thought that was what you had installed. If you instead used a plain washer in that location; probably would not work as well.

I haven't heard of problems with the Torrington bearings we installed or from others.

@tubman What you have heard?

[rich b]

Originally Posted by Flathead Fever

No self-energizing brakes from the 1960s and newer that I ever worked on at work had an adjustable top anchor, just the star wheel on the bottom. If this one was adjustable, I would think it would have a spot for a wrench to rotate the stud and hold it in place while you lock down the nut.

You must use the king-pin set for the year of the spindles. If I remember correctly, those '32-'34 spindles and kingpins should have the bearing on top of the spindle. The later spindles have the bearing between the bottom of the axle and the spindle which makes more sense to me.

The top anchor pins on earlier Bendix brakes, as well as these repo Lincolns, were adjustable in vertical location.

The hole for the pin is a slot and the anchor pin has flat sides to restrict rotation. If the nut is loosened the pin can move up and down. Originally the the shoes were centered via checking with feeler gage thru a slot in the drum.
Now-a-days the drums are no longer slotted and the centering is done by adjusting the shoes tightly with the star wheel with the anchor pin loosened just enough to move, then the nut is secured and the lower adjustment backed off and readjusted normally.

The original kingpin/bearing set won't work in this case due to the overhang of the repop Lincoln brakes.

[Flathead Fever]

Good to know about the Lincon brakes and the king pins. I have some Lincolns still in the box going on a '34 pickup. I can now see how the '32-'34 king pin would hit the brake hose on the Lincolns. Now I need to spend even more money.

I was wondering how you would adjust that upper anchor without being able to see in the drum. I have one of those KRW tools that rotates around the spindle for centering the shoes. That might work too. Looking at the back of that anchor it looks like modern ones I'm used to seeing. I learn something new every day here on the Ford Barn. Thanks!

[tubman]

Originally Posted by rich b

.....

@tubman What you have heard?

I think I saw on the H.A.M.B. that they have a very short life. A quick search didn't find anything. If I have time and remember, I'll so some more searching.

[Brian]

It is possible to fit original thrust bearing using early kingpins, spindles, brake drums, axle along with 39 Lincoln bendix brakes...[slight modification req'd]

[rich b]

Originally Posted by Brian

It is possible to fit original thrust bearing using early kingpins, spindles, brake drums, axle along with 39 Lincoln bendix brakes...[slight modification req'd]

What mods were needed to accomplish that?

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Brian

It is possible to fit original thrust bearing using early kingpins, spindles, brake drums, axle along with 39 Lincoln bendix brakes...[slight modification req'd]

[Brian]

What mods were needed to accomplish that?

39-40 Lincoln front backing plates have same spigot dia and stud pattern as early Ford spindles, so are a direct bolt on. They have a deep dish, as do 35-36 Ford backing plates, however, you need to machine up a spacer for each side, .214 thick, in order the 35-36 drums are centred on the Lincoln brake shoes.

[Brian]

You'll need to dress off the top of the spindle flanges sufficient for the backing plate and spacer to fit the Lincoln backing plate. Once all those components fit together, you'll need to machine most of the head off of the kingpins, and machine approx 1/8" off the top of the spindle boss where the thrust bearing sits. This means the top bush on each side is about 1/8" shorter than stock. Does it matter? dunno, I've done many,many trouble free miles, and haven't experienced premature wear in kingpins.... Ok, so now you've done all that you have an assembly that will all go together....there is not a lot of clearance atop the kingpin, but you can finangle it to just have clearance. Last step is to grind a new notch in the kingpin in the new position [kingpin is sitting about 1/8 lower than stock.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Brian

What mods were needed to accomplish that?

39-40 Lincoln front backing plates have same spigot dia and stud pattern as early Ford spindles, so are a direct bolt on. They have a deep dish, as do 35-36 Ford backing plates, however, you need to machine up a spacer for each side, .214 thick, in order the 35-36 drums are centred on the Lincoln brake shoes.

You'll need to dress off the top of the spindle flanges sufficient for the backing plate and spacer to fit the Lincoln backing plate. Once all those components fit together, you'll need to machine most of the head off of the kingpins, and machine approx 1/8" off the top of the spindle boss where the thrust bearing sits. This means the top bush on each side is about 1/8" shorter than stock. Does it matter? dunno, I've done many,many trouble free miles, and haven't experienced premature wear in kingpins.... Ok, so now you've done all that you have an assembly that will all go together....there is not a lot of clearance atop the kingpin, but you can finangle it to just have clearance. Last step is to grind a new notch in the kingpin in the new position [kingpin is sitting about 1/8 lower than stock.
__________________

[Brian]

Thank you Peter for the blow up picture...I decided to do my conversion this way, as it incorporates all the original steering geometry. Meant I can still run wire wheels that mount correctly on original drums; no silly spacers adapted to later drums/spindles etc. Scrub pattern remains the same. Really, the major detraction from stock is having the top boss on the spindle shortened up about 1/8", which, in my opinion/experience, is no big deal. I don't like the idea of those thin little Torrington needle rollers as Lacey uses.
When I say 'machine most of the head off the top of the kingpin', I am referring to the big 'cup' that houses the mechanical brake operating cam, when the head is machined down, it will look very similar to 1937 on 'pins.

[rich b]

@Brian Only slight modifications!

[kenche]

I just did the brakes on my 1950 Ford. I had the drums turned and the shoes arced to the drum diameter. I checked the anchor pins and found that they were not centering the shoes. Since I had the original drums, I was able to use the .010 feeling gauge method to center the shoes. If you want to get the brake job right, I really suggest you include this step. You wouldn't believe how much better they perform.