The Ford Barn

35fordsb · 12-18-2018, 03:26 PM

All I want for xmas is a clear photo of a 37 ford engine showing the correct installation and wiring of an original style condenser and a tall type coil. Car is negative ground. Oh yeah, and for the coil and condenser to solve my problem when properly installed. Thanks and have a safe and merry one!

BUBBAS IGNITION · 12-20-2018, 02:26 PM

Go to Van Pelt flathead for a diagram, pretty simple..

http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...wiring1937.jpg

JSeery · 12-20-2018, 02:42 PM

Doesn't negitive ground cause an issue with an original coil? Believe it requires a coil set up for negitive ground.

Phil Gillespie · 12-20-2018, 02:50 PM

My1946 Mercury. This is negative ground. Has new type round coil fitted. Only difference I note connections from ignition and to distributor are reverse of positive ground. I inherited this set up so cant say what was required to initially fit.
Phil NZ

JSeery · 12-20-2018, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phil Gillespie

My1946 Mercury. This is negative ground. Has new type round coil fitted. Only difference I note connections from ignition and to distributor are reverse of positive ground. I inherited this set up so cant say what was required to initially fit.
Phil NZ

That's the question, reversing the terminal on an original coil.

petehoovie · 12-20-2018, 03:11 PM

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Several years ago I installed a new battery in my '37 backwards (Negative to ground) by mistake and was able to start the car with no problem. I knew something was wrong when I looked at the ammeter....

JSeery · 12-20-2018, 03:31 PM

A coil will work wired backward, but it will not work properly. I think it is something like 70% when reversed.

JM 35 Sedan · 12-21-2018, 07:35 AM

I believe 35fordsb is asking for a clear picture to be posted, which no one has yet provided. If I can come up with a good picture in my files, or somewhere else on the internet, I'll post it here later.

petehoovie · 12-21-2018, 12:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 35fordsb

All I want for xmas is a clear photo of a 37 ford engine showing the correct installation and wiring of an original style condenser and a tall type coil. Car is negative ground. Oh yeah, and for the coil and condenser to solve my problem when properly installed. Thanks and have a safe and merry one!

I'm having a hard time with what you're asking for. There is no "wiring" to an "original style condenser". And, what do you mean a - "tall type" coil? Show us a picture of what you have.....Here's a picture of an original '37 coil and condenser mounted on a distributor....

JM 35 Sedan · 12-22-2018, 12:03 PM

I found a couple pictures that might be of some help:

JSeery · 12-22-2018, 01:01 PM

Notice the one terminal on the coil, that is the issue with reversing the battery polarity. I believe the coil and be rewound for negative ground.

Tinker · 12-22-2018, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petehoovie

Several years ago I installed a new battery in my '37 backwards (Negative to ground) by mistake and was able to start the car with no problem. I knew something was wrong when I looked at the ammeter....

You can also make your ammeter run backwards if the wire is running the wrong way through the gauge (polarity).

But not to muddy a already not so clear original post/question.

I agree, a original coil will run much better if it's connected right. Negative ground is wrong. Negative to the coil.. right.

Why reverse the polarity? Now are you running 12v? You can certainly get an original coil rebuilt to 12v neg grd.

flatheadmurre · 12-23-2018, 03:05 AM

The ignition coil doesn´t care to much about the polarity...the issue is the output to the plugs...
An ignition plug is designed with the center electrode made to resist wear...you wire the coil backwards and the outer electrode gets worn out fast...heat range also affected.

Tinker · 12-23-2018, 03:13 AM

correct me if im wrong, but wouldn't "wiring it backwards" change the polarity? I'm usually wrong, just want to know.

Conventional current flows from the positive pole (terminal) to the negative pole. Electrons flow from negative to positive. In a direct current (DC) circuit, current flows in one direction only, and one pole is always negative and the other pole is always positive. In an alternating current (AC) circuit the two poles alternate between negative and positive and the direction of the current (electron flow) reverses periodically.

https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/t...larity.126770/

.

flatheadmurre · 12-23-2018, 05:16 AM

What i was trying to say is that output of the coil as in weak spark isn´t the issue with wiring the coil backwards...it´s that the sparkplugs won´t work correctly that is the real problem.

35fordsb · 12-23-2018, 02:20 PM

Thanks John and Pete for the photos which show me correct installation of the original type parts which I now have for my 37 v8 60hp (Pete, your picture is an exact match to my stuff). The car is 6 volt and I plan to keep it that way. I bought this car at auction without realizing how much nonstandard stuff it had like a condenser from the fifties? Looks like I should switch it back to positive ground to avoid trouble with the plugs and to make the ammeter work properly. This is my first venture with an early ford and I clearly have a lot to learn. Thanks to all for your patience and help

JSeery · 12-23-2018, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

The ignition coil doesn´t care to much about the polarity...the issue is the output to the plugs...
An ignition plug is designed with the center electrode made to resist wear...you wire the coil backwards and the outer electrode gets worn out fast...heat range also affected.

Have to disagree with you on this one, what your are saying is correct, but I think it is a bigger deal than you make it sound.

rotorwrench · 12-23-2018, 06:55 PM

The output is weaker due to the way the primary and secondary are inter connected inside the coil. A neat little tool can still be purchased that fits into the high tension line to a spark plug and will visually show if the polarity of the coil is correct.

This link has a photo or two. http://www.nurex.com/sparklite

flatheadmurre · 12-23-2018, 07:06 PM

If the coil should have an issue with what side the points are...at the positive or negative...we should have had coils built for positive or negative ground....

The problem is the sparkplugs that need the correct polarity.

What makes it seem like a weaker spark is that a sparkplug takes more voltage to jump the gap "backwards" when the coil is wired in the wrong way.

Sorry for being a lousy teacher and having the second language barrier not helping...

JSeery · 12-23-2018, 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by flatheadmurre

If the coil should have an issue with what side the points are...at the positive or negative...we should have had coils built for positive or negative ground....

The problem is the sparkplugs that need the correct polarity.

Sorry, still disagree, the coil output is different. Anyway you look at it needs to be wired correctly.

12-18-2018, 03:26 PM	#1
35fordsb Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Winston Salem NC Posts: 16	Coil and Condenser installation help All I want for xmas is a clear photo of a 37 ford engine showing the correct installation and wiring of an original style condenser and a tall type coil. Car is negative ground. Oh yeah, and for the coil and condenser to solve my problem when properly installed. Thanks and have a safe and merry one! Last edited by 35fordsb; 12-19-2018 at 09:51 AM.

12-20-2018, 02:26 PM	#2
BUBBAS IGNITION Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: SPEEDWAY INDIANA Posts: 4,148	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help Go to Van Pelt flathead for a diagram, pretty simple.. http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/F...wiring1937.jpg __________________ If it Makes Spark, we do it !!!! www.bubbasignition.com [email protected]

12-20-2018, 02:42 PM	#3
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help Doesn't negitive ground cause an issue with an original coil? Believe it requires a coil set up for negitive ground.

12-20-2018, 02:50 PM	#4
Phil Gillespie Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Christchurch New Zealand Posts: 1,611	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help My1946 Mercury. This is negative ground. Has new type round coil fitted. Only difference I note connections from ignition and to distributor are reverse of positive ground. I inherited this set up so cant say what was required to initially fit. Phil NZ

12-20-2018, 03:11 PM	#6
petehoovie Senior Member Join Date: May 2015 Posts: 8,156	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Several years ago I installed a new battery in my '37 backwards (Negative to ground) by mistake and was able to start the car with no problem. I knew something was wrong when I looked at the ammeter.... __________________ The only thing nice about being imperfect is the joy it brings to others.... *"Silver rings, your butt! Them's washers!"* "We shot our way out of that town for a dollar's worth of steel holes!" - from 'The Wild Bunch' - 1969 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7NReUd2_0u0

12-20-2018, 03:31 PM	#7
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help A coil will work wired backward, but it will not work properly. I think it is something like 70% when reversed.

12-21-2018, 07:35 AM	#8
JM 35 Sedan Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Near Rising Sun, Maryland Posts: 10,858	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help I believe 35fordsb is asking for a clear picture to be posted, which no one has yet provided. If I can come up with a good picture in my files, or somewhere else on the internet, I'll post it here later. __________________ *John* *"Never give up on what you really want to do. The person with big dreams is more powerful than one with all the facts". Albert Einstein*

12-22-2018, 01:01 PM	#11
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help Notice the one terminal on the coil, that is the issue with reversing the battery polarity. I believe the coil and be rewound for negative ground.

12-23-2018, 03:05 AM	#13
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help The ignition coil doesn´t care to much about the polarity...the issue is the output to the plugs... An ignition plug is designed with the center electrode made to resist wear...you wire the coil backwards and the outer electrode gets worn out fast...heat range also affected.

12-23-2018, 03:13 AM	#14
Tinker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: MN Posts: 7,053	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help correct me if im wrong, but wouldn't "wiring it backwards" change the polarity? I'm usually wrong, just want to know. Conventional current flows from the positive pole (terminal) to the negative pole. Electrons flow from negative to positive. In a direct current (DC) circuit, current flows in one direction only, and one pole is always negative and the other pole is always positive. In an alternating current (AC) circuit the two poles alternate between negative and positive and the direction of the current (electron flow) reverses periodically. https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/t...larity.126770/ . Last edited by Tinker; 12-23-2018 at 03:44 AM.

12-23-2018, 05:16 AM	#15
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help What i was trying to say is that output of the coil as in weak spark isn´t the issue with wiring the coil backwards...it´s that the sparkplugs won´t work correctly that is the real problem.

12-23-2018, 02:20 PM	#16
35fordsb Junior Member Join Date: Apr 2018 Location: Winston Salem NC Posts: 16	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help Thanks John and Pete for the photos which show me correct installation of the original type parts which I now have for my 37 v8 60hp (Pete, your picture is an exact match to my stuff). The car is 6 volt and I plan to keep it that way. I bought this car at auction without realizing how much nonstandard stuff it had like a condenser from the fifties? Looks like I should switch it back to positive ground to avoid trouble with the plugs and to make the ammeter work properly. This is my first venture with an early ford and I clearly have a lot to learn. Thanks to all for your patience and help Last edited by 35fordsb; 12-23-2018 at 02:29 PM.

12-23-2018, 06:55 PM	#18
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help The output is weaker due to the way the primary and secondary are inter connected inside the coil. A neat little tool can still be purchased that fits into the high tension line to a spark plug and will visually show if the polarity of the coil is correct. This link has a photo or two. http://www.nurex.com/sparklite

12-23-2018, 07:06 PM	#19
flatheadmurre Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Sweden Posts: 3,045	Re: Coil and Condenser installation help If the coil should have an issue with what side the points are...at the positive or negative...we should have had coils built for positive or negative ground.... The problem is the sparkplugs that need the correct polarity. What makes it seem like a weaker spark is that a sparkplug takes more voltage to jump the gap "backwards" when the coil is wired in the wrong way. Sorry for being a lousy teacher and having the second language barrier not helping... Last edited by flatheadmurre; 12-23-2018 at 07:21 PM.