oil pressure

[V4F]

I had a guy ask me how long it takes to get oil to the mains on stock "A"

his report --- but we can't get that oil pressure hole screw out while in the car even with carb etc. off (it's been rounded off in slot and is stuck solid).
Do you know if the time to get oil to all chambers (and therefore all main bearing tubes) is written anywhere, so we can understand if this engine is pumping enough to do that job. We ran it once for over 3 minutes and there was very little in the back chamber by then.
I know it's usually all happening behind a steel panel, but thought somewhere it would be written what the original specs were, so that we can compare it to that.
If not, I know we will have to pull down and start checking everything, but it was driving nice and except for the ticking, we believed it was all OK and was going to let her keep driving. When we saw how long it was taking oil to get into the 3 chambers we don't think it's safe to bolt all back up and drive.

any help greatly appreciated ............. steve

[nick c]

If all you say is correct, then you need to get a copy of Restorer magazine jan-feb 1998, pg 22.
carry on

[Big hammer]

In about 1 1/2 min. I had oil coming out the lower part of the drain back tube! The model A oil pump is a high volume pump, you should a had a mess after 3 min’s run time. My rebuilder said to leave the drain back tube loose at the lower part to see if I had oil flow!

[Jim Brierley]

Do as Big Hammer says. I bought a speedster several years ago, with a very tired engine. After sitting overnight the mains pounded like crazy for about a minute until oil got to them. I never timed it but am estimating about a minute. Even if an oil pressure gauge is in that hole, it wouldn't tell you when oil got to the mains. That engine also left a huge trail of oil, coming from the rear main area.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

It's like asking, "How long is a string"???--MAIN thing is, don't ROAR it up, until it runs a BIT.
Bill Cautious

[Y-Blockhead]

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Interesting question. Whenever I have pulled my valve cover there was always a certain amount of oil in the chamber. I always figured that was enough to lube the bearings until a fresh supply arrived.

I also run a full flow oil filter so there is always oil "up there".

[Mike V. Florida]

Depends on how long it has sat not run. From the valve galley, there are tubes that go down to the mains. the oil fills the valve galley and then oil fills the tubes. If the engine was sitting not very long it would take a while for it to drain out. As for filling the galley, it would only take seconds to fill as the standard pump pumps 1 gallon and one pint per minute.

[Purdy Swoft]

My guess would be 30 seconds .

[1930-Pickup]

Why did he bring this up in the first place? Seems to me that there was no problem, until he made one.

Besides, oil pressure has nothing to do with pumping 'enough' (volume).

It ran fine? There's oil in it? Go!

For other folks who are trying to remove the oil screw: the oil screw was rounded and tight on mine also. I got a good screwdriver and wedged it tight between the frame and screw.

[Purdy Swoft]

Model A's are very forgiving . He probably heard bearing rattle and was wondering if oil was getting to the bearings quick enough . as for the oil screw I've used heat around the screw and they came out without as much effort . I always did this with the engine out for overhaul .

[Y-Blockhead]

So it's a crime to ask questions??

[Leatherback 57]

I installed guage near choke rod in hole already in firewall. Used brass bulkhead fitting and can see easily while driving. While cranking guage reads 5# and goes to 15 at start for 30 sec and slowly drops to 2-5 at operating temp.plenty of oil!20160519_101153.jpg

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

So it's a crime to ask questions??

Yep, arrest pending..........where's Barney Fife?

[katy]

Looks something like this:

[Purdy Swoft]

I liked the one when Barney accidently shot his foot .

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by Leatherback 57

I installed guage near choke rod in hole already in firewall. Used brass bulkhead fitting and can see easily while driving. While cranking guage reads 5# and goes to 15 at start for 30 sec and slowly drops to 2-5 at operating temp.plenty of oil!Attachment 348008

Cool, Kind of "Steam Punk" looking. It kind of goes with my "Potentiometer"

[Glenn Thoreson]

There is a little known thing that can cause a problem with oil level in the valve chamber.
If you look at the "dam" ahead of the oil tube, where splash over lubes the timing gear, you will likely find it eroded down into a rounded looking shape. Ford blueprints show this dam is supposed to be straight across the front ahead of the oil tube. Too low and too much oil will splash over and starve the lifters and main bearings.

[V4F]

ok , sorry for the question . trying to help a guy ........... steve

[oldforder]

Ok Glenn, If it is true that the oil dam in the valve chamber is suppose to be straight across, Then I have a problem, because mine is curved down and jagged. Can you or someone tell me how high it should be, and how to repair it. I thought I read somewhere on this forum that that was normal. I am sure mine wasn't worn or eroded, it sure looks like it was made that way, but if I am starving my mains, I want to try to fix it. I have had real good luck with JB weld for engine repairs, so could probably put a patch on with that.

[Y-Blockhead]

Originally Posted by oldforder

Ok Glenn, If it is true that the oil dam in the valve chamber is suppose to be straight across, Then I have a problem, because mine is curved down and jagged. Can you or someone tell me how high it should be, and how to repair it. I thought I read somewhere on this forum that that was normal. I am sure mine wasn't worn or eroded, it sure looks like it was made that way, but if I am starving my mains, I want to try to fix it. I have had real good luck with JB weld for engine repairs, so could probably put a patch on with that.

Mine is also as you describe and you can see in the photos post #6 above that i have plenty of oil.

[Purdy Swoft]

I have seen where the tube leading from the valve chamber to the rear main was bent in an attempt to slow rear main bearing leaks . This practice slows oil flow to the rear main bearing and lengthen the time that it takes for the rear main to get proper lubrication .

[oldforder]

I don't see any photo in post #6

[Purdy Swoft]

Two pictures show up on post number 6 here .

[Tom Wesenberg]

A jagged, rounded front hole, right behind the cam gear, is normal, and how Ford built it.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Glenn Thoreson

There is a little known thing that can cause a problem with oil level in the valve chamber.
If you look at the "dam" ahead of the oil tube, where splash over lubes the timing gear, you will likely find it eroded down into a rounded looking shape. Ford blueprints show this dam is supposed to be straight across the front ahead of the oil tube. Too low and too much oil will splash over and starve the lifters and main bearings.

Question: What "erodes" this dam? The only thing flowing over it is oil, which does not erode anything.

[katy]

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Originally Posted by oldforder

I don't see any photo in post #6

Ditto

[old-ford]

I guess the purpose of this construction must be to lead the oil towards the timing gear insted of the rear of the oil galery?

[oldforder]

I cleaned the sludge from the valve chamber. It was not real bad, but definitely was needing cleaned. I had cleaned the pan previously and drove it around some, maybe 30 miles in sort trips, and then read here about cleaning the valve chamber. This of course is a new to me car. I am an old pro auto mechanic, but other than growing up learning to drive with dads 28AR, I never worked on them before. So now have got a 29 Tudor, am learning a lot, but still confused about a lot. I know if I need major workalike removing engine/trans/diff, I will need to take it to an expert, as I don't have the space or equipment anymore. But my question is, now that I have cleaned the valve chamber, could someone show me a picture of where the drain/feed holes to the mains are. I wiped the area out and blew it with high pressure air (made a mess) but not positive I cleared the holes. I did find a couple holes, and run a wire in them, but only seemed top go in an inch or so. Maybe the hole takes a turn?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by old-ford

I guess the purpose of this construction must be to lead the oil towards the timing gear insted of the rear of the oil galery?

I haven't seen a block like this before, but it appears the oil goes through the cast in trough instead of having to cast a metal pipe inside the valve chamber to carry the oil forward.

Poke around the rear inside corners to find the holes that oil the mains. Stick pipe cleaners down each one until the wire touches the crank, then pull them out and see if they picked up any sludge. I or someone else has posted pictures of the holes a few years ago.

If you found one in the rear and it only goes an inch or two, that is the one that feeds oil to the rear cam bearing.

[oldforder]

Thanks. So what would be the approximate diameter of the holes I am looking for? 1/8 inch, 1/4 inch? and there should be 3 , right? How many for the cam bearings?

[George D]

There are three dams in the lifter chamber I don't believe oil should ever flow over any of them. They are used to keep oil in the area's of the main bearing tubes when going up or down long steep hills. The oil flow in the chamber is governed by the lifter cover. Look inside the cover and you will see two small raised bosses that line up with the dams but are much shorter. Oil flows over these bosses and around the dam's the Essex runs down the drain back tube to fill the dipper tray and lube the rods. Oil flow to the mains and cam bearings happens rather quickly after startup oil to the dipped tray takes a little longer.

[oldforder]

thanks, I will have to look to see if all the holes to the main and cams are open, and didn't get plugged when I wiped the sludge out. Sure would like to see a picture though so I know what I am looking for.

[Glenn Thoreson]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

A jagged, rounded front hole, right behind the cam gear, is normal, and how Ford built it.

So, what your saying is the Ford blueprints are wrong? Maybe I don't see straight, eh? I thought my cataract surgery was supposed to fix that. I suppose next someone will tell me they excavated the Grand Canyon with a teaspoon.
Now, to answer an intelligent question: Motor oils of old had a very high sulfur content. So did the gasoline. Add a little moisture and combustion byproducts to it and you had a very corrosive mix. Add to that the the effects of untold thousands of gallons of oil filled with grit and worn off metal rushing over it and you can better understand what happens over 80 years or so. That is one of the reasons manufacturers (i.e. Ford) called for 500 mile oil changes. Acidic oil was responsible for all kinds of problems back when. Pitted and eroded engine bearings being the worst. The oil dam in the valve chamber was a very thin casting toward the top. Easily damaged over time. 'nuff said....

[Tom Wesenberg]

So, the oil flows over the front hole and wears it to a jagged edge, then the same oil goes into the dipper tray where oil scoops hit it at great speed and sling it against the cam and cylinder walls, yet none of those three items get any damage. I'm new at this and just learning.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Glenn Thoreson

So, what your saying is the Ford blueprints are wrong? .

Are you able to post the portion of the drawing that calls for it to be machined straight across?

I have never seen a block with a straight dam nor have I ever read about it being so. I would like to see the drawing to educate us all.

While this engine has pressure lines you can clearly see the jagged edge.

Still another one,


Can you show us a photo of a block with a nice straight line in the valve galley?

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by oldforder

thanks, I will have to look to see if all the holes to the main and cams are open, and didn't get plugged when I wiped the sludge out. Sure would like to see a picture though so I know what I am looking for.

Here's a link to pictures showing the holes in my very clean and painted block. You need to change .net to .com to make the link work. I thought I had the pictures posted here, but using the search didn't turn them up. I usually have pretty good luck by using the Google Search.
Try a Google search for "main bearing oil holes in valve chamber" and see if that works.

https://www.vintagefordforum.net/for...-engine-topics

Here's another link that should get you to my pictures:

http://www.ahooga.com/wwwboard/messages/282982.shtml

[oldforder]

I am sure I don't know what I am doing, but I can't get to any pictures on any of these links. I got to where you had pic on the vintage ford site, and tried to register to see pix, but not having a lot of luck.

[slammin]

oldforder, I got the ahooga link to work. Once you get there you need to click "main bearing feed holes" That will take you to a thread where you need to go to one of the last posts to see Tom's excellent photos.

[oldforder]

I got that far, but it says I have to register. I did that and have received verification from them that I am registered, and still no pix from Toms post. I am very NOT computer literate. Also I am using a Mac, but I wouldn't think that should matter.

[slammin]

Originally Posted by oldforder

I got that far, but it says I have to register. I did that and have received verification from them that I am registered, and still no pix from Toms post. I am very NOT computer literate. Also I am using a Mac, but I wouldn't think that should matter.

I don't remember joining that group, but maybe I did. When I hit the link, I don't have a place to register. If you have been accepted, when you get to that page, it should be titles "main bearing hole locations". Then there will be two red lines. Below them it should say "posted by Tom Wesenburg" Near the left margin of that section you should see "Main Bearing Feed Holes" in blue. Clicking on that should take to the thread with Tom's photos.

[oldforder]

Ok, after loging in I was finally able to see the pictures. The holes are smaller than I thought. How far in should I be able to stick in a pipe cleaner? Can I just use a soft wire? or blow high pressure air into the hole.

[Tom Wesenberg]

I like to use a pipe cleaner, as it will pickup any sludge on the way out. It should go in deep enough to touch the crankshaft, which is I'd guess about 4 or 5 inches. It'll be a solid stop when you hit the crankshaft journal.