The Ford Barn

TD · 05-15-2012, 08:44 AM

any one know the procedure to press out a hub on a front drum and press in a new one?
TD

Farrell In Vancouver · 05-15-2012, 08:54 AM

TD, the hubs are secured to the drum with the swedged wheel studs. These studs must have the pressed shoulder or swedge cut away in order to separate the two units, drum, and hub. The swedge cutters are available in some parts catalogues.
Once the swedgings are removed its fairly simple to punch the studs out and replace with new. These of course, must be re-swedged to hold the new drum on tight. Then the entire assembly must be trued on a lathe to ensure proper braking action.

JoeWay · 05-15-2012, 09:23 AM

Learn all about it from Vince Falter's excellent tutorial on the subject.

Joe

TD · 05-15-2012, 09:36 AM

Triple roses for the great link - that really helps loads
Thanks ever so much
TD

Greg way out West · 05-15-2012, 10:54 AM

Hey TD,,

I used to do alot of changing the A Drum's...Used to just press out the stud with a back-up tool that came with the drum changing fixture

Do "Not" beat on the stud to get it out or you'll bend the flange for sure...The back-up tool is like a pipe that goes around the outside of the stud to support the hub flange as you press

Also you have to bolt the new hub & drum together as tight as you can get it,,,then Swedge one stud at a time...After that turn the drum to true it up....

As for the rear drum's,,,Check around and see if you can find a place that can do old "VW" bug rear drum's..If they can, they can use the same small "Arbor" on the drum machine to do the A rear's.

One last thing,,I had to cut about 20 thousand's out of the E- brake area as the new linning is too thick

Anybody remember the "new Steel drum's" way back from Argentina that you had to file all the holes so you could get the whole deal to fit...I'am talking about 40 year's ago !

I think they were stamped "Frum's on the drum's ?...After I filed out "29 holes" I had them swegded.then another shock,,the drum wouldn't go over the shoes !!!! had to turn them 20 to 30 thousand so they would fit

Aw,,,,those were the day's !!!..I remember the old Joke at Ford Obsolete in Long beach "Cal." was every part came with a file !!!! I wish every part made now were like the cast drum's they make now..."Perfect" !!!

Greg,

TD · 05-15-2012, 11:52 AM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Thanks Greg!
TD

ericr · 05-15-2012, 12:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeWay

Learn all about it from Vince Falter's excellent tutorial on the subject.

Joe

thing is, I'm not sure how many restorers own an arbor press though one might have access to one through a fellow restorer, but I suspect very few people have one of the installation fixtures or the know-how to fabricate one.

Russ/40 · 05-15-2012, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg way out West

Hey TD,,

I used to do alot of changing the A Drum's...Used to just press out the stud with a back-up tool that came with the drum changing fixture

Do "Not" beat on the stud to get it out or you'll bend the flange for sure...The back-up tool is like a pipe that goes around the outside of the stud to support the hub flange as you press

Also you have to bolt the new hub & drum together as tight as you can get it,,,then Swedge one stud at a time...After that turn the drum to true it up....

As for the rear drum's,,,Check around and see if you can find a place that can do old "VW" bug rear drum's..If they can, they can use the same small "Arbor" on the drum machine to do the A rear's.

One last thing,,I had to cut about 20 thousand's out of the E- brake area as the new linning is too thick

Anybody remember the "new Steel drum's" way back from Argentina that you had to file all the holes so you could get the whole deal to fit...I'am talking about 40 year's ago !

I think they were stamped "Frum's on the drum's ?...After I filed out "29 holes" I had them swegded.then another shock,,the drum wouldn't go over the shoes !!!! had to turn them 20 to 30 thousand so they would fit

Aw,,,,those were the day's !!!..I remember the old Joke at Ford Obsolete in Long beach "Cal." was every part came with a file !!!! I wish every part made now were like the cast drum's they make now..."Perfect" !!!

Greg,

Greg you raise the point I have always thought was valid, but never seen suggested before. The concept of pressing the studs out without cutting the expanded shoulder first. I have always wondered why this has always been discouraged. Proper backing of the hub should dismiss any chance of warping the hub flange. That process would be far simpler, and, to me, eliminate the possibility of cutting too deep into the hub. I would like to hear any other supporting statements for that approach, and experience.

JoeWay · 05-15-2012, 01:20 PM

The uncut swedge will enlarge the hole in the hub as it passes through. This will require the next swedge to be larger in order to fill the hole, which will require a larger press and a tougher tool. The flange of the hub might even be cracked as the uncut swedge goes through. There is a reason why the pros invest in the tools to do the job correctly.

And yes, most restorers do not own a 30 ton press nor the fixtures, swedging tool or swedge cutter. That's why most restorers do not change their own drums. It is a job best left to people with the tools and experience to do it correctly. I am a machinist with a suitable press and swedge cutter, and I could certainly buy a swedging tool though the ones available through the "A" parts suppliers are poor tools. I still had Bert's in Denver do my new drums.

Joe

Russ/40 · 05-15-2012, 06:13 PM

Joe, your explanation and reasoning sounds logical to me. Thanks for your perspective.

ericr · 05-15-2012, 08:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russ/40

Joe, you explanation and reasoning sounds logical to me. Thanks for your perspective.

well the K.R. WIlson Model "A" tool catalog clearly shows old studs simply being pushed out by an arbor press but the fixture firmly supports the hub from below so no warpage could occur. It also shows new ones being peened in with hand tools.

Russ/40 · 05-16-2012, 12:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericr

well the K.R. WIlson Model "A" tool catalog clearly shows old studs simply being pushed out by an arbor press but the fixture firmly supports the hub from below so no warpage could occur. It also shows new ones being peened in with hand tools.

Interesting! I wondered about using a 5lb sledge and the setting tool.

Brentwood Bob · 05-16-2012, 12:51 AM

This is not the place to be cutting corners as Joe has pointed out. Bob

ericr · 05-16-2012, 07:48 AM

yeah, the K.R. Wilson fixture is heavy-duty and could take a hit from a bomb, as seems true of most of their tools. By looking at the picture, I just assume the studs were originally only lightly peened in. Another Wilson tool we would love to acquire, just like the steering gear tools, brake shoe grinder, and the tool that removes that roller bearing sleeve in the front of the drive shaft tube.

TD · 05-16-2012, 09:39 AM

I'm sending mine off to a shop (Joe)
TD

Greg way out West · 05-16-2012, 09:53 AM

Hey Joe,

It's probably better to use the "Cutter"..But when the "Rep" came from I think it was Griggs to show how to use the new drum fixture..He said to just press out the stud..

This was back in the 80's & I remember it didn't take too much presure to get the "swedge" to break free as the swedged part of the stud was thin.

If anything got damage, it was the old steel drum which was going to be junked anyway..

Nothing happened to the hub...You had to be carefull not to press too much on the new cast drum's as I'am thinking you might crack them.

Now,,,Pressing out the stud with the new cast drum to replace say one stud might be a problem & the cutter is the way to go I'ed say...it might crack !!!

Take care my friend's

Greg out "west"

KR500 · 05-21-2012, 11:38 PM

I have remounted A drums with the following method. Secure a hole saw 9/16" diameter and a hole saw mounting which does not use the center drill included. Mounting in a drill you can cut away the swedged over material without damaging the hub. If you are reusing the drums just don't cut too deeply. You need to retain the countersink area of the drum although you can re countersink a little deeper if necessary. I recently made the mistake of mounting a rear hub/drum assembly and didn't check the runout of the hub face to the taper in the hub. Big mistake. After mounting in a brake lathe to cut the new cast iron drum to the 11.00 dimension the drum runout was about .040. I hade to hole saw my newly swedged studs, press them out and take a cut on the hub surface after indicating in the taper portion of hub. Wiley Higgins did a great article in the Restorer on accomplishing this. With Model A's being on the road for many years a number of musclemen with big hammers have figured out there isn't anything they can't disassemble if they try no matter how wrong the method.

05-15-2012, 08:44 AM	#1
TD Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: shelby, nc Posts: 201	pressing situtation any one know the procedure to press out a hub on a front drum and press in a new one? TD

05-15-2012, 08:54 AM	#2
Farrell In Vancouver Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pitt Meadows BC Posts: 1,003	Re: pressing situtation TD, the hubs are secured to the drum with the swedged wheel studs. These studs must have the pressed shoulder or swedge cut away in order to separate the two units, drum, and hub. The swedge cutters are available in some parts catalogues. Once the swedgings are removed its fairly simple to punch the studs out and replace with new. These of course, must be re-swedged to hold the new drum on tight. Then the entire assembly must be trued on a lathe to ensure proper braking action.

05-15-2012, 09:23 AM	#3
JoeWay Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Quincy CA Posts: 752	Re: pressing situtation Learn all about it from Vince Falter's excellent tutorial on the subject. Joe __________________ 1929 Tudor since 1962 Feather River A's

05-15-2012, 09:36 AM	#4
TD Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: shelby, nc Posts: 201	Re: pressing situtation Triple roses for the great link - that really helps loads Thanks ever so much TD

05-15-2012, 10:54 AM	#5
Greg way out West Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 75	Re: pressing situtation Hey TD,, I used to do alot of changing the A Drum's...Used to just press out the stud with a back-up tool that came with the drum changing fixture Do "Not" beat on the stud to get it out or you'll bend the flange for sure...The back-up tool is like a pipe that goes around the outside of the stud to support the hub flange as you press Also you have to bolt the new hub & drum together as tight as you can get it,,,then Swedge one stud at a time...After that turn the drum to true it up.... As for the rear drum's,,,Check around and see if you can find a place that can do old "VW" bug rear drum's..If they can, they can use the same small "Arbor" on the drum machine to do the A rear's. One last thing,,I had to cut about 20 thousand's out of the E- brake area as the new linning is too thick Anybody remember the "new Steel drum's" way back from Argentina that you had to file all the holes so you could get the whole deal to fit...I'am talking about 40 year's ago ! I think they were stamped "Frum's on the drum's ?...After I filed out "29 holes" I had them swegded.then another shock,,the drum wouldn't go over the shoes !!!! had to turn them 20 to 30 thousand so they would fit Aw,,,,those were the day's !!!..I remember the old Joke at Ford Obsolete in Long beach "Cal." was every part came with a file !!!! I wish every part made now were like the cast drum's they make now..."Perfect" !!! Greg,

05-15-2012, 11:52 AM	#6
TD Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: shelby, nc Posts: 201	Re: pressing situtation Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Thanks Greg! TD

05-15-2012, 01:20 PM	#9
JoeWay Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Quincy CA Posts: 752	Re: pressing situtation The uncut swedge will enlarge the hole in the hub as it passes through. This will require the next swedge to be larger in order to fill the hole, which will require a larger press and a tougher tool. The flange of the hub might even be cracked as the uncut swedge goes through. There is a reason why the pros invest in the tools to do the job correctly. And yes, most restorers do not own a 30 ton press nor the fixtures, swedging tool or swedge cutter. That's why most restorers do not change their own drums. It is a job best left to people with the tools and experience to do it correctly. I am a machinist with a suitable press and swedge cutter, and I could certainly buy a swedging tool though the ones available through the "A" parts suppliers are poor tools. I still had Bert's in Denver do my new drums. Joe __________________ 1929 Tudor since 1962 Feather River A's

05-15-2012, 06:13 PM	#10
Russ/40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Santee, California Posts: 3,505	Re: pressing situtation Joe, your explanation and reasoning sounds logical to me. Thanks for your perspective. Last edited by Russ/40; 05-16-2012 at 12:09 AM.

05-16-2012, 12:51 AM	#13
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,247	Re: pressing situtation This is not the place to be cutting corners as Joe has pointed out. Bob

05-16-2012, 07:48 AM	#14
ericr Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 1,542	Re: pressing situtation yeah, the K.R. Wilson fixture is heavy-duty and could take a hit from a bomb, as seems true of most of their tools. By looking at the picture, I just assume the studs were originally only lightly peened in. Another Wilson tool we would love to acquire, just like the steering gear tools, brake shoe grinder, and the tool that removes that roller bearing sleeve in the front of the drive shaft tube.

05-16-2012, 09:39 AM	#15
TD Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: shelby, nc Posts: 201	Re: pressing situtation I'm sending mine off to a shop (Joe) TD

05-16-2012, 09:53 AM	#16
Greg way out West Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 75	Re: pressing situtation Hey Joe, It's probably better to use the "Cutter"..But when the "Rep" came from I think it was Griggs to show how to use the new drum fixture..He said to just press out the stud.. This was back in the 80's & I remember it didn't take too much presure to get the "swedge" to break free as the swedged part of the stud was thin. If anything got damage, it was the old steel drum which was going to be junked anyway.. Nothing happened to the hub...You had to be carefull not to press too much on the new cast drum's as I'am thinking you might crack them. Now,,,Pressing out the stud with the new cast drum to replace say one stud might be a problem & the cutter is the way to go I'ed say...it might crack !!! Take care my friend's Greg out "west"

05-21-2012, 11:38 PM	#17
KR500 Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Addison,ll. Posts: 454	Re: pressing situtation I have remounted A drums with the following method. Secure a hole saw 9/16" diameter and a hole saw mounting which does not use the center drill included. Mounting in a drill you can cut away the swedged over material without damaging the hub. If you are reusing the drums just don't cut too deeply. You need to retain the countersink area of the drum although you can re countersink a little deeper if necessary. I recently made the mistake of mounting a rear hub/drum assembly and didn't check the runout of the hub face to the taper in the hub. Big mistake. After mounting in a brake lathe to cut the new cast iron drum to the 11.00 dimension the drum runout was about .040. I hade to hole saw my newly swedged studs, press them out and take a cut on the hub surface after indicating in the taper portion of hub. Wiley Higgins did a great article in the Restorer on accomplishing this. With Model A's being on the road for many years a number of musclemen with big hammers have figured out there isn't anything they can't disassemble if they try no matter how wrong the method.