The Ford Barn

john charlton · 08-04-2015, 11:01 AM

still need to get the head off to see why no compression on no 2 cylinder . No luck so far . This is the stuckest ( is this correct English I ask myself) head I have ever had . I reassembled the engine with all head bolts backed way off and it ran happily on 3 and head remained solidly on . I cut up several old carving knives and have slim wedges all around . They are driven in as far as I dare , I think I have reached the point where I might damage the block if I hit them any harder . I have had the car front virtually suspended by the cylinder head as well but still solidly on . Looks like some kind of industrial glue has been used as a gasket sealer . I have tried bopping the head studs WD40 etc etc If all fails I will pull the engine and take it to my local friendly garage and try some oxy/acetylene heat .I will keep you all informed .Any other tips will be gladly accepted .

John in cloudy warm afternoon Suffolk County England

CarlG · 08-04-2015, 11:08 AM

I've had good luck with stubborn Model A heads using this handy tool built by Bill Stipe, and available at most vendors:

john charlton · 08-04-2015, 11:20 AM

Yes I have seen this adveritised .How does it actually work ? I cant see the detail .What function do the 5 large holes have ? Thanks .

John in same weather Suffoilk County England .

700rpm · 08-04-2015, 11:32 AM

The large holes are for lifting the engine or pulling the head with a hoist. But the head will come loose using just the two special bolts shown in the picture. It's hard to explain in writing, but obvious when you have the tool in hand.

wrndln · 08-04-2015, 11:33 AM

John,
Did you try to start the engine with the head bolts loosened about 1/4". I have heard this will sometimes break the head loose with the compression of the engine. I have never done this myself, but it sounds like it might be worth a try. The engine wont run long if the head pops up. Just a thought.

Also, I don't understand why just using a chain hooked to 2 spark plug holes and a hoist would be much different than using the $90 head remover. Could someone explain why just hooking a couple spark plug bolts like in the picture wouldn't do the same job as the head remover?
Rusty Nelson

Mitch//pa · 08-04-2015, 11:48 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by wrndln

John,
Did you try to start the engine with the head bolts loosened about 1/4". I have heard this will sometimes break the head loose with the compression of the engine. I have never done this myself, but it sounds like it might be worth a try. The engine wont run long if the head pops up. Just a thought.

Also, I don't understand why just using a chain hooked to 2 spark plug holes and a hoist would be much different than using the $90 head remover. Could someone explain why just hooking a couple spark plug bolts like in the picture wouldn't do the same job as the head remover?
Rusty Nelson

i have lifted an engine and trans assy out of the car with all the head nuts backed off... the head never moved...

Bruce · 08-04-2015, 12:18 PM

I always thought that clothesline fed into the cylinders through the spark plug hole to lift a stuck head was an automotive myth. Then, I heard from a reliable mechanic-friend that he had witnessed its success.
He said that it makes the clothesline pretty dirty and that, if you choose to try it, you should have a new rope ready to hang up -- or expect to eat at the pub.
However, I have never had a head that was so stuck that compression would not pop it loose.

Mitch//pa · 08-04-2015, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bruce

I always thought that clothesline fed into the cylinders through the spark plug hole to lift a stuck head was an automotive myth. Then, I heard from a reliable mechanic-friend that he had witnessed its success.
He said that it makes the clothesline pretty dirty and that, if you choose to try it, you should have a new rope ready to hang up -- or expect to eat at the pub.
However, I have never had a head that was so stuck that compression would not pop it loose.

have a new connecting rod ready also

Steve Wastler · 08-04-2015, 12:28 PM

The head on my roadster was stuck like that. Tried all the above mentioned ways, even a few not mentioned over the course of about a month and a half. Broke down ann bought the head remover as above and the head popped off in 5 minutes. Would not think of removing any head without it!

john charlton · 08-04-2015, 12:42 PM

Thank you all most appreciated . I ran the motor with all the head nuts on a few turns on the studs . I was just being a little over cautious I know just had visions of the head departing through the garage roof .When you get to 76 yrs old you do get a little paranoid ,I wasnt sure on the insurance !!!.

John in Suffo;k County England

Tom Wesenberg · 08-04-2015, 01:10 PM

I have never had compression break a head loose, and I also have has a couple engines that were stuck just like John's. I sprayed Kroil on the studs and pounded thin knives around the perimeter, and this was with the head puller tool installed. It took a few hours of pounding knives and tightening the puller bolts, but it final came.

The very first Model A I worked on was the most stuck head I ever had. I had a chain running to two spark plug holes and had the front tires off the ground by a couple inches. Even with pounding knives around the edge it still took a couple days work to remove the head. Someone had used varnish or some good glue on both sides of the head gasket.

The head remover tool which is a large flat plate is the best tool to try, as it presses down against several head studs to put lifting pressure against the head. When lifting the front of the car off the ground you are limited by the weight of the car, which can be less than the head tool can apply. Also the spark plugs aren't centered, so the head tends to left more from one side. The right tool makes lifting more even across the head.

Henry1953 · 08-04-2015, 02:07 PM

Compression would not break mine loose. I bought the head removal tool shown and it popped it right off. After I ordered the tool and while I was waiting for it to come in I put WD40 around the head studs. This probably helped as well.

1931 flamingo · 08-04-2015, 02:16 PM

The head on mine was also very tight. Had chain hooked to 2 spark plug eyelets and the hoist attached, finally popped with the front wheels off the ground.
paul in CT

mshmodela · 08-04-2015, 02:29 PM

Now don't laugh but I wonder if in the automotive repair business someone makes some link of machine that could produce slow frequency, vibrations. In the computer business we destroy hard disks by a degausing machine that in a magnetic that in additon to frying the disk platers it shakes the you know what out of the disks... the idea is, like a jack hammer, vibrate the head...

briphaeton · 08-04-2015, 02:57 PM

I made one of these. Worked great without any damage to either head or block.

Juggler · 08-04-2015, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briphaeton

I made one of these. Worked great without any damage to either head or block.

I like that. A lot simpler than some I've seen. Will try and make the old man one (John's my Dad) over the weekend

Many thanks

FRANK PKNY · 08-04-2015, 03:56 PM

BRIPHAETON That tool is much better than the commercial one. I can see that working well. With a blue print and a cnc machine you could make these at a reasonable price. Perhaps a vender may have interest in it? Frank

briphaeton · 08-04-2015, 04:52 PM

Elrod is the one who deserves credit for this. A drill press or milling machine would easily do the job. My aluminum thomas head was on for 25 years and didn't want to damage it.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/t...d-head.218487/

BILL WILLIAMSON · 08-04-2015, 05:04 PM

Minerva had 1 stud that was HORRIBLE!!!!! After MUCH soaking, etc, it FINALLY turned with a stud remover & proceeded to lift the head. Still stuck in the head, I had to drive it back & forth MANY times with a punch, before it came out! The entire length was VERY rough, a BLACKISH/GREY color & looked like it had been literally WELDED TO THE HEAD! NEVER saw one like that before! "MAYBE" some kind of ELECTROLISIS or "SOMETHING"???? NO other studs were even rusty, at all. Any ideas??---Head was perfect, took it off because of a slight water leak between #3 & #4, causing a 5 second miss on those 2 cylinders, after sitting overnight.
Bill W.

katy · 08-04-2015, 05:15 PM

Can you not pull the studs out?

08-04-2015, 11:01 AM	#1
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Very Stuck Cylinder Head still need to get the head off to see why no compression on no 2 cylinder . No luck so far . This is the stuckest ( is this correct English I ask myself) head I have ever had . I reassembled the engine with all head bolts backed way off and it ran happily on 3 and head remained solidly on . I cut up several old carving knives and have slim wedges all around . They are driven in as far as I dare , I think I have reached the point where I might damage the block if I hit them any harder . I have had the car front virtually suspended by the cylinder head as well but still solidly on . Looks like some kind of industrial glue has been used as a gasket sealer . I have tried bopping the head studs WD40 etc etc If all fails I will pull the engine and take it to my local friendly garage and try some oxy/acetylene heat .I will keep you all informed .Any other tips will be gladly accepted . John in cloudy warm afternoon Suffolk County England

08-04-2015, 12:18 PM	#7
Bruce Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sun City West, AZ Posts: 489	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head I always thought that clothesline fed into the cylinders through the spark plug hole to lift a stuck head was an automotive myth. Then, I heard from a reliable mechanic-friend that he had witnessed its success. He said that it makes the clothesline pretty dirty and that, if you choose to try it, you should have a new rope ready to hang up -- or expect to eat at the pub. However, I have never had a head that was so stuck that compression would not pop it loose.

08-04-2015, 12:28 PM	#9
Steve Wastler Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,987	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head The head on my roadster was stuck like that. Tried all the above mentioned ways, even a few not mentioned over the course of about a month and a half. Broke down ann bought the head remover as above and the head popped off in 5 minutes. Would not think of removing any head without it!

08-04-2015, 12:42 PM	#10
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Thank you all most appreciated . I ran the motor with all the head nuts on a few turns on the studs . I was just being a little over cautious I know just had visions of the head departing through the garage roof .When you get to 76 yrs old you do get a little paranoid ,I wasnt sure on the insurance !!!. John in Suffo;k County England

08-04-2015, 01:10 PM	#11
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head I have never had compression break a head loose, and I also have has a couple engines that were stuck just like John's. I sprayed Kroil on the studs and pounded thin knives around the perimeter, and this was with the head puller tool installed. It took a few hours of pounding knives and tightening the puller bolts, but it final came. The very first Model A I worked on was the most stuck head I ever had. I had a chain running to two spark plug holes and had the front tires off the ground by a couple inches. Even with pounding knives around the edge it still took a couple days work to remove the head. Someone had used varnish or some good glue on both sides of the head gasket. The head remover tool which is a large flat plate is the best tool to try, as it presses down against several head studs to put lifting pressure against the head. When lifting the front of the car off the ground you are limited by the weight of the car, which can be less than the head tool can apply. Also the spark plugs aren't centered, so the head tends to left more from one side. The right tool makes lifting more even across the head.

08-04-2015, 11:20 AM	#3
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Yes I have seen this adveritised .How does it actually work ? I cant see the detail .What function do the 5 large holes have ? Thanks . John in same weather Suffoilk County England .

08-04-2015, 11:32 AM	#4
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head The large holes are for lifting the engine or pulling the head with a hoist. But the head will come loose using just the two special bolts shown in the picture. It's hard to explain in writing, but obvious when you have the tool in hand. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

08-04-2015, 02:07 PM	#12
Henry1953 Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Location: Laurel, MS Posts: 126	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Compression would not break mine loose. I bought the head removal tool shown and it popped it right off. After I ordered the tool and while I was waiting for it to come in I put WD40 around the head studs. This probably helped as well.

08-04-2015, 02:16 PM	#13
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head The head on mine was also very tight. Had chain hooked to 2 spark plug eyelets and the hoist attached, finally popped with the front wheels off the ground. paul in CT

08-04-2015, 02:29 PM	#14
mshmodela Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 2,763	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Now don't laugh but I wonder if in the automotive repair business someone makes some link of machine that could produce slow frequency, vibrations. In the computer business we destroy hard disks by a degausing machine that in a magnetic that in additon to frying the disk platers it shakes the you know what out of the disks... the idea is, like a jack hammer, vibrate the head... __________________ -Mike Late 31' Ford Model A Tudor, Miss Daisy I don't work on cars --I'm learning about my Model A. Cleveland, Ohio

08-04-2015, 03:56 PM	#17
FRANK PKNY Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: POUGHKEEPSIE NY 12601 Posts: 1,016	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head BRIPHAETON That tool is much better than the commercial one. I can see that working well. With a blue print and a cnc machine you could make these at a reasonable price. Perhaps a vender may have interest in it? Frank __________________ [email protected]

08-04-2015, 05:04 PM	#19
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Minerva had 1 stud that was HORRIBLE!!!!! After MUCH soaking, etc, it FINALLY turned with a stud remover & proceeded to lift the head. Still stuck in the head, I had to drive it back & forth MANY times with a punch, before it came out! The entire length was VERY rough, a BLACKISH/GREY color & looked like it had been literally WELDED TO THE HEAD! NEVER saw one like that before! "MAYBE" some kind of ELECTROLISIS or "SOMETHING"???? NO other studs were even rusty, at all. Any ideas??---Head was perfect, took it off because of a slight water leak between #3 & #4, causing a 5 second miss on those 2 cylinders, after sitting overnight. Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

08-04-2015, 05:15 PM	#20
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: Very Stuck Cylinder Head Can you not pull the studs out? __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!