Overdrive Transmission in a 1952 F1

[Eagle43]

I am in the process of restoring a 1952 F1. I plan to put it back to stock but I'd like to be able to keep up with traffic on the freeway. My understanding is that with the regular 3 speed tranny and a 3.92 rear end, a reasonable cruising speed I can expect would be in the 50 -55 range. I have found an Overdrive Transmission out of I believe a 1950 Lincoln and the seller has a similar one in his own F1. He took me for a ride in his truck and it seems to work pretty well but I though that before I hand over my money and take possession I would ask for advice on this forum. Does anyone have experience putting one of these transmissions in a F1? Are there better options that I should investigate? Is there an automatic overdrive transmission that would also work? Any advice would be much appreciated.

[JSeery]

Just keep in mind it takes modifications to switch out the transmission, don't think it is a bolt-in.

You might run the numbers, the engine is capable of way more than 50-55 mph with a 3.92 rear axle.

MPH = (RPM x Tire Dia) / (Gear Ratio x 336) & RPM = (MPH x Gear Ratio X 336) / Tire Dia

So, for 29 inch dia tires and say 60 mph the engine rpm would be:

RPM = (60 x 3.92 x 336) / 29 = 2,725 rpm, not that high an rpm

With say a 30 inch tire: RPM = (60 x 3.92 x 336) / 30 =2,634 rpm

Or, for 65 mph : RPM = (65 x 3.92 x 336) / 30 = 2,854 rpm

You can play with the number this way and see what is what. Stock flatheads have max torque @ 2200 rpm and max hp @ 3700 rpm.

[rotorwrench]

A Mercury (1949 thru E51) will almost bolt in but is a side shift. It may have a different rear mount. The Lincoln units are the T85 with the R11 overdrive which is also a side shift. They can be adapted but will take a bit more modification since they have the narrow Borg Warner 4-bolt pattern. This would require a bell housing to fit up and may also need some rear mount work.

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

A Mercury (1949 thru E51) will almost bolt in but is a side shift. It may have a different rear mount. The Lincoln units are the T85 with the R11 overdrive which is also a side shift. They can be adapted but will take a bit more modification since they have the narrow Borg Warner 4-bolt pattern. This would require a bell housing to fit up and may also need some rear mount work.

And driveshaft length?

[deuce5wndw]

1952 truck would be a side shift also so would be very doable. I have a Borg Warner overdrive in one of me cars and love it!

[Aarongriffey]

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I have a 51 F1 which of course is also a side shift.
I was advised that the overdrive trans was very hard to get mounted into an F1 so I got a rear end out of a ‘72 F100 that is about 3.5:1.
That makes the old V8 geared perfectly unless I stop on a steel hill with a load like a car on a tow bar or on a trailer.
I often run along the freeway at 65 to 70 MPH.

[Aarongriffey]

The standard transmission in the F1 was column shift 51 and later unless they had the four speed or the heavy duty three speed.
The standard three speed column shift was the car transmission but with open driveshaft. Maybe same as ‘49 n 50 Merc without overdrive.
One small problem with the better ratio rear end is that know a little more than before the vehicle needs a synchromesh first. It won’t always keep pulling after turning a sharp turn going up hill. I have come to a stop and shift into first gear.

[Aarongriffey]

The better ratio F100 rear ends are not a bolt in to the F1.
The spring perches must be cut off and relocated, the shocks no longer match up and of coarse the speedometer is off quite a bit.
Otherwise I am pleased that I did the change.

[wga]

Have you thought of going to an automatic trans? A friend put a GM700R4 behind his 8ba in a 50 woodie. Loved it. Used an adapter for engine to trans mounting, and a column
shift. 2004R works well too. However in your pickup a floor shift would be easy, and there are several aftermarket companies (Lokar) that can provide the shift linkage for that trans on the floor.
Here is a link I found with a quick google search: https://transmissioncenter.net/shop/...tic-fo1000501/
Some discussion on the other site: https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/...athead.223261/

[Eagle43]

Thanks everyone for your input. Today I picked up and paid for the overdrive transmission so I guess I'm committed. It's a Borg Warner R-11 and I believe it came out of an early fifties Lincoln. These were an option for cars, the R-10 for small cars and the R-11 for big cars, but not for trucks. Evidently a lot of other manufacturers used their own version of this transmission. It came with the bellhousing so it will bolt right onto the V-8 flathead. I will need to get a different clutch plate and may need to modify the throw out bearing. The mount should line up with the cross member. The driveshaft should fit but I will need a different yoke. It came with the repair manual and Rock Auto stocks the bearings if I need them. I took the cover off and it looks good inside - no visible wear or corrosion. The seller didn't have a lock-out switch but I understand that these are readily available.
Just a little background on the truck. It's a Canadian F1 and they only came with a floor shift and a V-8. In other posts I gave some background to a previous "restoration" done to this truck in which a "butcher" job was done installing a 1963 FE 352 and an automatic transmission. I will need to find a side shift steering column since the column that was in the truck was from the donor car. I also need to find a clutch pedal and linkage. I have found and installed front motor mounts and cross member.
I borrowed and scanned the Repair Manual and made it into a pdf file. I added some articles on this transmission I found on the Internet. If anyone needs a copy just message me. I'm pretty confident that this transmission will work well and it's period correct except not for a truck. The seller said he has had his for at least twenty years and he's had it up to 80 on the highway. He lives close by and promised to help me get it working if I run into trouble.

[blucar]

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
I loved that truck, I put thousand's of miles on that truck driving around Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah. With the OD the truck had the best of the best, low gearing for hills and high gearing for the open road. IF I ever run into a '52 F1 that is green, V8 & OD, radio and deluxe heater I'll buy it.
I had a '59 Ford F100 V8 OD, PS, big window, custom cab 6' fleet side, for many tears. One day a man offered me a lot of money for the truck, much to my regret, I sold it.

[Eagle43]

Thanks. That's encouraging. I think it will work out well.

[rotorwrench]

The bell housing on the 1949 through 51 Lincoln was to fit the big 337 Lincoln engine. It won't fit the 8BA family. If it was from a later 317 Y-block Lincoln then it still won't fit. A person may be able to use a late 1951 Mercury Bell housing but it's just a one year deal. That was the last year that the Mercury still had the frame mounted pedals with the standard clutch compensator that rotates the shaft in the bell housing to operate the throw out bearing. I've seen them on Flea-Pay a time or two. If the bell housing lower pan is missing then one from any 1952 or 53 Ford/Mercury car uses the same access pan on the bottom but they have the fulcrum type clutch actuator arm like the earlier Ford cars.

I'm pretty sure the T85 R11 transmission has the same transmission pattern as the Ford car transmissions did in the 50s. As for the rear mount, I'm not sure how it will work with the F1 cross member but I'm sure it can be made to function with some yankee engenuity. If the Lincoln T85 R11 has the 1 3/8" 10-spline input then it will work with the pickup 10 or 11-inch Long type clutch. The driveshaft would likely need to be shortened and I'm not sure if they use the same front knuckle as a Ford pickup but that would be easy to check.

After 1950, all the F1/F100 Ford pickups used the Dana 44 rear axle. The spring pad may be different between the F1 series and F100 series but that is about the only different till they changed away from the 19-spline axles. Brakes are basically the same.

Later in the 60s, the T85 R11 was beefed up with a nodular cast iron case and it has the R11N designation. These transmissions were strong enough to put behind a Ford FE 390 and giver all you got. They were a lot tougher transmission than the old R10.

[Eagle43]

Thanks for the additional information. I just checked and the bell housing seems to fit so it must not be from a Lincoln. I couldn't try bolting it on because I still need to get the bottom housing off. I think I just need to find an 11 inch clutch plate with a 1" 10 spline center since the truck clutch plate has a bigger hole.. I think I can use the other truck clutch parts: pressure plate, throwout bearing, forks, etc. but I won't know for sure until I get things cleaned up. The seller warned me that he had had to get a special adapter plate machined since the car throwout is smaller than the truck throwout when he did his truck 20 years ago but I'm hoping to avoid having to do that. He also thought that I would need a smaller pilot bearing but I think with some polishing that will fit also. I measured the drive shaft and it looks like I just need a short 1 3/16" 16 spline yoke.
I've attached a couple of pages from the Repair Manual. The chart lists the vehicles in which this transmission was an option. You will notice that Canadian trucks were named after their GVW from 1948 to 1950. They then changed to the F1 designation for 1951/2.
The second page gives a description of how the overdrive works. Basically you have a regular 3 speed transmission with the overdrive unit bolted to the end. This is why the mounting bracket lines up with the crossmember like it's supposed to.
Tomorrow I plan to drive to a large swap meet about two hours away and hope to find some more things that I need such as a steering column and clutch pedal.

[Bob C]

Can you post a picture of your transmission??

[rotorwrench]

If the bell housing fits an 8BA then it would not be from a Lincoln. The Lincoln 337 and 317 Y-blocks are both larger than the 8BA engines. Ford of Canada had some different transmissions for trucks but Mercury and Lincoln stuff was likely produced in the US. Ford of Canada would purchase bare Mercury cars and fit the Monarch trim in Canada. The Meteor was produced in Canada so both Ford and Meteor cars were produced there. The pickups were all produced in Canada and there are some differences from US production but for the most part they followed the same procedures as the US counterparts with the trim being the major difference between Ford and Mercury units.

The T85 transmission is a heavy duty 3-speed side load of Borg Warner design and has a curved shape to the bottom of the shift cover housing. It was the basis for the T10 4-speed. The trans case should have T85 casting marks and the OD housing should have the R11 casting marks on it. These units were used right up into the mid 60s for cars and early 70s for pickups so it may not even be from a Lincoln. The early units had a 1 1/8" 10-spline input and the later units had a 23-spline input. I don't know if any of these were produced in Canada or if there were differences. None that I'm aware of were ever set up to fit a flathead 8BA but I'm sure they can be adapted. It would fit a shoe box ford bell housing but the shoe boxes has a fulcrum arm clutch release. A clutch plate should be available that would work with one of the pickup diameters. I'm not sure what the 49 to 51 Lincoln used or the 52 through 54 317 for that matter.

[Eagle43]

I had another look at the transmission and took some pictures as requested. I was disappointed to discover it is an R-10 and not the heavy duty R-11 and probably didn't come out of a Lincoln as I was told. It still should work fine. The bell housing will bolt on as you can see.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Eagle43

I had another look at the transmission and took some pictures as requested. I was disappointed to discover it is an R-10 and not the heavy duty R-11 and probably didn't come out of a Lincoln as I was told. It still should work fine. The bell housing will bolt on as you can see. I've included an Internet picture as well.

[rotorwrench]

The bell housing appears to be a late 1951 Mercury and that is likely the origin of the transmission as well. The late 51 transmissions have the diamond gears so they are a bit stronger in that respect. The R10 should be fine with a flathead. I don't think you can hurt it easily. You will have to try to break it. That was the set up to get for an F1 pickup with a 3 on the tree shift.

[40ford]

Originally Posted by blucar

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
I loved that truck, I put thousand's of miles on that truck driving around Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah. With the OD the truck had the best of the best, low gearing for hills and high gearing for the open road. IF I ever run into a '52 F1 that is green, V8 & OD, radio and deluxe heater I'll buy it.
I had a '59 Ford F100 V8 OD, PS, big window, custom cab 6' fleet side, for many tears. One day a man offered me a lot of money for the truck, much to my regret, I sold it.

Never seen a 1952 with overdrive.Was this from the factory?My 52 is all stock with 3.92 rear end and will run 65mph all day long with plenty of pedal left!

[tubman]

As a point of reference, I have a '51 Mercury engine in my '51 Ford club coupe; it has massaged Edmunds heads, a Mallory dual point, and a 2G on a bored out Merc manifold. It also has 3.55 rear end gears and 2.25/75R15 rear tires; no overdrive (which I intend to remedy). It cruises nicely at 65 mph, turning 2800 RPM. Anything over that is "uncomfortable"; the engine seems to be in a range it doesn't like. Don't get me wrong;, it will easily turn over 4000 RPM, but if you want to just ride down he road, 2700-2800 RPM is all these negines like.

[apba12m]

beware the overdrive solenoid is 6 volt...if you are converting to 12v.

[Eagle43]

For identification of my OD transmission, here are better pictures of the numbers stamped on the 3 speed part and the overdrive part of the unit. The input shaft is a 1" 10 spline. Does anyone know of any vehicles that used an 11 or 10 inch clutch plate to fit this transmission?

[rotorwrench]

The casting marks won't tell much more than what the basic casting part identifier was for the manufacturing process. 1-inch 10-spline is consistent with the transmissions that had the Borg Warner mounting bolt pattern starting in 1949. The late 1951 Mercury used the Borg and Beck 10-inch clutch but a person may be able to use GM diaphragm type clutch from the mid 70s GM products only it would need the modified fingers for the throw out to work. A person can find the L51 Merc clutch on flea-pay now and then. They used the 1-inch 10-spline disk and work well. Ft Wayne Clutch can rebuild them. I use them for my early 51 Merc clutches with the 1 3/8" 10-spline. The cover is almost the same but has a different center hole diameter. I have the Borg & Beck numbers for them in my Hollander Interchange book. A person can also use the 9.5 inch 8BA clutch and flywheel with this spline. Any 8BA flywheel can be redrilled to fit whatever you want. The Borg & Beck or diaphragm type clutches use the same six evenly spaced bolt pattern so that would be the easiest way to go for a 10-inch clutch.

[green53]

I put that same transmission in my .53 F 100. I swapped the original 3 speed input shaft into a thunderbird OD transmission and everything fit fine. Just make sure the number of teeth on both input shafts are the same.

[rotorwrench]

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If the parts were from a T85 then they should interchange. The 259 series transmission parts also will interchange with similar transmissions with rectangular side covers as long as they are diamond gear types produced from 1951 on. The major differences between overdrive and non overdrive transmissions is the case and the main shaft. The 49 & 50 Ford car transmissions are similar to the later 259 series but they have the early gears and different clutch mechanical mountings. The 51 Ford transmissions are similar to the 49 & 50 but they have the new diamond gears. Swing pedals came along in 1952 so the cases changed to reflect that. Ford & Mercury cars used the same basic transmission in 52 & 53 but the late 51 Mercury had the different bell housing due to the frame mounted pedals. The T85 transmission was the heavy duty 3-speed in the Y-block years and the 259 series was one of the two light duty transmissions. The other light duty was the T86 top loader in the Y-block years.

[blucar]

eagle43.. If i have read your tread correctly, your '52 had a floor shift and you are converting to a column shift OD trans.
Many years ago I restored a '37 Ford 1/2 ton.. I used a '47-48 Columbia rear end with a column shift trans. I harvested a steering column out of a 58-59 F100, column shift, shortened it up a bit and installed it on the '37 steering gear box. Very easy installation.
One of the advantages of using the '58-59 Ford F100 column was the built-in turn signal switch. I did have to use the later model steering wheel, which I don't recall if it was a '58 or was it earlier?
I think I have a couple 58-59 F100 columns in my parts stash.

[blucar]

Originally Posted by tubman

As a point of reference, I have a '51 Mercury engine in my '51 Ford club coupe; it has massaged Edmunds heads, a Mallory dual point, and a 2G on a bored out Merc manifold. It also has 3.55 rear end gears and 2.25/75R15 rear tires; no overdrive (which I intend to remedy). It cruises nicely at 65 mph, turning 2800 RPM. Anything over that is "uncomfortable"; the engine seems to be in a range it doesn't like. Don't get me wrong;, it will easily turn over 4000 RPM, but if you want to just ride down he road, 2700-2800 RPM is all these negines like.

My '36 has had an OD, Columbia, under it since new.. Believe me an OD under a EFV8 makes the car into a very nice, economical vehicle. even with my well built engine I have gotten as high as 22 mpg on on the highway. Kick the OD down to be a smart ass, or in the hills.

[blucar]

Originally Posted by 40ford

Never seen a 1952 with overdrive.Was this from the factory?My 52 is all stock with 3.92 rear end and will run 65mph all day long with plenty of pedal left!

I was with my father when he drove the '52 out of Stoddard Ford in Idaho Falls, ID..
In 1954 my father traded the '52 in on a new F1, six cylinder, three on the tree, Sea Foam Green, I hated that truck, a gutless wonder.

[Eagle43]

Originally Posted by blucar

eagle43.. If i have read your tread correctly, your '52 had a floor shift and you are converting to a column shift OD trans.

It would originally have come with a floor shift but I got it with a FE 352, an automatic transmission and the car steering column. I need a side shift column to go with the OD transmission I want to install.

[rotorwrench]

This link shows the 3 on the tree for pickups. They didn't start using them in 1948 but they were retro fit on some occasions. The later F100 set up is different but might be usable with some mods.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...l#&gid=1&pid=1

There is also a link on there for the F100 diagram and it looks similar in some ways. The 3 on the tree was not as common in the F1 years as it was in the F100. There are likely a few still out there though.

[Eagle43]

I finished cleaning up, painting and bolting in the transmission today. I think everything on the transmission and overdrive is good. I'm looking for a 16 spline slip yoke and a new modern seal for the back. There was a lot of dirt in the overdrive since it was open at the back end but it cleaned up nicely. It is an R10.

There does seem to be a problem with the clutch. I used the truck pressure plate and throwout bearing and made a sleeve to fit it on the car bellhousing clutch arms. I bought a new clutch plate to fit the transmission - 1" 10 spline. I have no idea why I cannot move the clutch with a wrench so it's back to the drawing board. Maybe I need to use more force but I'm scared of breaking things.

I'm still looking for a side shift steering column and a clutch pedal. I found what appears to be a 1953 Ford sedan (correct me if I'm wrong) at a local wrecking yard. It has a side shift steering column. It may have a useable clutch pedal but I forgot to check when I was there last week. This is one of those yards where you take out your own parts. This is where I got my motor mounts and cross member almost two years ago. Does anyone know if a car steering column will work in a pickup?

[rotorwrench]

The length may be different. If it's close to the same it may work. If it's too far off then it may not work without some modification. I don't have to tell you how critical a steering shaft is to your personal safety so take modification seriously.

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by blucar

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
...

Originally Posted by 40ford

Never seen a 1952 with overdrive.Was this from the factory?My 52 is all stock with 3.92 rear end and will run 65mph all day long with plenty of pedal left!

OD wasn't a factory option in '52 on any F-series truck, '53 and newer had them. Blucar, do you have a picture of that truck? I have to believe it was a '53 that was sold in '52 and titled as such.

Eagle43, have you laid out the trans on the frame yet? The biggest obstacle on making these fit in a 48-52 F-1 is that the solenoid falls right on the trans crossmember, requiring a large cut. The crossmember in F-2's and larger is further back and has a much larger clear area.

[Bob C]

"Does anyone know if a car steering column will work in a pickup"


I put a 1950 Mercury OD in a 1948 F2. I took the mast off an early 50's
Ford car and installed it on the F2 column, had to shorten the mast a little.

[Eagle43]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Eagle43, have you laid out the trans on the frame yet? The biggest obstacle on making these fit in a 48-52 F-1 is that the solenoid falls right on the trans crossmember, requiring a large cut. The crossmember in F-2's and larger is further back and has a much larger clear area.

You're right. I just checked with a tape measure and the solenoid lines up with the crossmember. The mount on the transmission doesn't line up with the crossmember as I thought but will be an inch or so behind the crossmember. I can move the crossmember since it's bolted in but that will probably screw up the master cylinder and pedals. Any suggestions? I also don't know how I'll mount the tranny. How did you mount yours?

[Ross F-1]

I bought an OD trans at a swap meet, and after measuring it up, sold it. I can't say I've ever seen a successful transplant, but I have heard changing the crossmember to an F-2/3 type gives the clearance. Not sure what else is required, and the F-2/3 crossmember normally mounts further back than the F-1 type. Honestly I doubt it will work in the F-1 position. The bottom line is, it's less work to install a T5.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by Eagle43

You're right. I just checked with a tape measure and the solenoid lines up with the crossmember. The mount on the transmission doesn't line up with the crossmember as I thought but will be an inch or so behind the crossmember. I can move the crossmember since it's bolted in but that will probably screw up the master cylinder and pedals. Any suggestions? I also don't know how I'll mount the tranny. How did you mount yours?

First thing, don't give up! You will love having that overdrive! The naysayers like their T5's and their measly 5 speeds, but you will have a 6 speed trans! (Although an extra switch is usually needed to get overdrive in low.) When the T5 guys need to downshift they have to push in the clutch and tug the shift lever, while all you have to do is floor the gas pedal to kick down into direct third (or fifth gear if you are counting all six)! Then just let up on the gas and you're automatically back in overdrive (or sixth)!

There is an adapter to relocate the solenoid, but I can't remember what car used it or how hard it is to find one.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

First thing, don't give up! You will love having that overdrive! The naysayers like their T5's and their measly 5 speeds, but you will have a 6 speed trans! (Although an extra switch is usually needed to get overdrive in low.) When the T5 guys need to downshift they have to push in the clutch and tug the shift lever, while all you have to do is floor the gas pedal to kick down into direct third (or fifth gear if you are counting all six)! Then just let up on the gas and you're automatically back in overdrive (or sixth)!

There is an adapter to relocate the solenoid, but I can't remember what car used it or how hard it is to find one.

I just found a reference on Hemmings to a special solenoid with a longer nose to clear the crossmember on trucks and convertibles. Said it was very rare. This may have been what I was thinking about. Will look further

[52flthed]

Originally Posted by blucar

My father bought a new '52 Ford F1 with V8 and an overdrive trans. the gear shift was on the column.
I loved that truck, I put thousand's of miles on that truck driving around Idaho, Nevada, Wyoming and Utah. With the OD the truck had the best of the best, low gearing for hills and high gearing for the open road. IF I ever run into a '52 F1 that is green, V8 & OD, radio and deluxe heater I'll buy it.
I had a '59 Ford F100 V8 OD, PS, big window, custom cab 6' fleet side, for many tears. One day a man offered me a lot of money for the truck, much to my regret, I sold it.

Ive never heard or seen any material in the data books showing an F1 in 52 that was able to be purchased with an overdrive? Have you ever found any thing that says that? Just curious as how you know that the truck came with that option originally? Thanks for any info or clarification on this. -john

[52flthed]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

I bought an OD trans at a swap meet, and after measuring it up, sold it. I can't say I've ever seen a successful transplant, but I have heard changing the crossmember to an F-2/3 type gives the clearance. Not sure what else is required, and the F-2/3 crossmember normally mounts further back than the F-1 type. Honestly I doubt it will work in the F-1 position. The bottom line is, it's less work to install a T5.

Ive been strongly advised not to attempt an OD in my truck. Its very very expensive and it radially alters the truck. If keeping it stock means anything to you. I would think about a different ratio gearing but I'm actually quite content living with and driving the truck as it was originally built, bias ply, 6 v and all the other so called "annoyances". I like slowing down, relaxing, driving this truck on the back roads on the weekend is what its all about for me. Im on the freeway doing 80 plus all week long. LOL. The point of the truck is it take you back in time and take you to places you might not otherwise expect to go. Learn to live slow is the advice I've taken from ownership of this truck.

[Pdstark]

Originally Posted by 52flthed

Ive been strongly advised not to attempt an OD in my truck. Its very very expensive and it radially alters the truck. If keeping it stock means anything to you. I would think about a different ratio gearing but I'm actually quite content living with and driving the truck as it was originally built, bias ply, 6 v and all the other so called "annoyances". I like slowing down, relaxing, driving this truck on the back roads on the weekend is what its all about for me. Im on the freeway doing 80 plus all week long. LOL. The point of the truck is it take you back in time and take you to places you might not otherwise expect to go. Learn to live slow is the advice I've taken from ownership of this truck.

Well said 52flthed - Driving the back roads in my stock 1951 F1 flathead v8 is a perfect back-to-the-future, relaxing, slow down type of experience.

[40 Deluxe]

Originally Posted by 52flthed

Ive been strongly advised not to attempt an OD in my truck. Its very very expensive and it radially alters the truck. If keeping it stock means anything to you. I would think about a different ratio gearing but I'm actually quite content living with and driving the truck as it was originally built, bias ply, 6 v and all the other so called "annoyances". I like slowing down, relaxing, driving this truck on the back roads on the weekend is what its all about for me. Im on the freeway doing 80 plus all week long. LOL. The point of the truck is it take you back in time and take you to places you might not otherwise expect to go. Learn to live slow is the advice I've taken from ownership of this truck.

Where did you get such unfounded advice?? I doubt it was from anyone who owns an overdrive equipped vehicle! I would suggest that you find someone who has an overdrive equipped vehicle and go for a ride. It doesn't have to be a Ford pickup. There were many cars with overdrive in the late '40's and through the '50's. You will see how much flexibility and driving pleasure it adds!

Installing an overdrive transmission does not radically alter the vehicle! The only visible differences are a small relay on the firewall, a control cable under the dash, a kickdown switch hidden under the gas pedal and some inconspicuous wiring. The crossmember may or may not need altering, but who will notice?
I think that when a person wants some how-to advice, we should offer that advice (only if qualified) instead of going off on a Negative Nancy rant with our own personal (often unfounded) personal opinion!

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

....

Installing an overdrive transmission does not radically alter the vehicle! The only visible differences are a small relay on the firewall, a control cable under the dash, a kickdown switch hidden under the gas pedal and some inconspicuous wiring. The crossmember may or may not need altering, but who will notice?
I think that when a person wants some how-to advice, we should offer that advice (only if qualified) instead of going off on a Negative Nancy rant with our own personal (often unfounded) personal opinion!

On the other hand, you are encouraging him solely because the OD is "nice", without any regard for the MAJOR fabrication needed to install it. Pics below are typical mods needed to install a T5 in an F-1, which is a narrower and shorter transmission than the OD. That crossmember is the major structural element of the frame, and supports the brake and clutch pedals among other things. The entire center section needs to be removed, best done with the cab off the truck or even on the bare frame so nothing gets out of alignment.

[1948F-1Pickup]

If I were going to do this (OD or T-5) I'd mod the factory cross member by leaving roughly the left "half" of the cross member in place.... because of all the stuff mounted to it that really should
stay in that location. I'd completely remove the right side "1/2."
I'd install a second cross member to deal with the transmission tailshaft mount and to tie into the 1/2 OE cross member remaining on the left side, to provide structural integrity for it.
That's how you skin that cat.

[40 Deluxe]

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Originally Posted by 1948F-1Pickup

If I were going to do this (OD or T-5) I'd mod the factory cross member by leaving roughly the left "half" of the cross member in place.... because of all the stuff mounted to it that really should
stay in that location. I'd completely remove the right side "1/2."
I'd install a second cross member to deal with the transmission tailshaft mount and to tie into the 1/2 OE cross member remaining on the left side, to provide structural integrity for it.
That's how you skin that cat.

Right. It's not exactly rocket science! Well, it might be for some. My point is, If we want overdrive and ask for how-to ideas, there's no need for naysayers to put us down. If they don't want overdrive, (or T-5, or power brakes, etc.) that's fine for them. Or if they don't have any fabrication skills, it doesn't mean that everyone else lacks such skills.
Someone who's "been there, done that" is a good source for what works or does not work. Someone who has "never been there, never done that" is not likely a reliable source of helpful information!

[Eagle43]

I'm in the process of fitting in the R10 overdrive. I've puzzled over how to proceed for a day or two and followed this discussion with interest and I've come to the conclusion that "simple" is best in this case. I'm simply moving the crossmember back a few inches so that the transmission mount fits in front of the crossmember. I only need to bolt a piece of angle iron on the front of the cross member for the mount to sit on. I will reinstall the left part of my old destroyed cross member back in its proper place for the master cylinder and pedal assembly to bolt on to. My cost for this installation will be close to zero except for the bolts and the rubber motor mounts, solenoid seal and rear seal I have on order from Rock Auto. There will be no modifications to the cross member other than a few bolt holes so its structural integrity is intact. I'm still trying to find a 16 spline slip yoke to connect to the drive shaft and this will determine exactly where the cross member will be installed. I may have to cheat a bit and move the motor forward a half an inch or so since I don't want to have to shorten my driveshaft. Regarding total expense - I paid $800 for the transmission. It came with the bellhousing and solenoid. I still need a side shift steering column. If I went for the regular floor shift transmission I would need to find a shifter and regular steering column.

[1948F-1Pickup]

Originally Posted by Eagle43

I'm simply moving the crossmember back a few inches so that the transmission mount fits in front of the crossmember. I only need to bolt a piece of angle iron on the front of the cross member for the mount to sit on. I will reinstall the left part of my old destroyed cross member back in its proper place for the master cylinder and pedal assembly to bolt on to.

Exactly. Now you're cooking.

[Bob C]

Here's a 1949 Mercury OD that was converted to top shift, it can be done.

[1948F-1Pickup]

That's quite a bit of ingenuity....

[Eagle43]

Originally Posted by Eagle43

I'm simply moving the crossmember back a few inches so that the transmission mount fits in front of the crossmember. I only need to bolt a piece of angle iron on the front of the cross member for the mount to sit on. I will reinstall the left part of my old destroyed cross member back in its proper place for the master cylinder and pedal assembly to bolt on to. My cost for this installation will be close to zero except for the bolts and the rubber motor mounts, solenoid seal and rear seal I have on order from Rock Auto. There will be no modifications to the cross member other than a few bolt holes so its structural integrity is intact. I'm still trying to find a 16 spline slip yoke to connect to the drive shaft and this will determine exactly where the cross member will be installed.

Here are a few pictures. I see no reason why this wouldn't work. No interference with the solenoid or anything else.

[Eagle43]

A couple of related questions for the experts as I get ready to bolt everything in place. How much space should I allow between the slip yoke and the back end of the transmission? In other words how much does the slip yoke need to move back and forth on the spline when driving? Also is the optimal angle that the motor sits determined when the top of the carburetor is level or does this matter?

[Ross F-1]

Stock F-1 engine angle is 3° down at the rear, which puts the carb level.

Do you know your new driveshaft length yet? B_Man_Al and I have done a lot of study on how much the yoke moves on the splines as the rear axle moves up/down, but for stock driveshafts. From resting position, we figure 3/8" inward movement, 3/8" to 1/2" outward. With a shorter driveshaft movement will be more.

[rotorwrench]

It boils down the movement in service and the ability to disengage the rear U-joint from the drive flange on the differential. If a person has to fab up a drive shaft, I'd go for the best possible engagement with spline with 3/4" to 1" of total slip without bottoming out. 1 3/4" to 2" of engagement should work but I'd look for as much as I could get and still be safe.

[Ross F-1]

B_Man_Al made this drawing of the stock setup

[52flthed]

Originally Posted by 40 Deluxe

Where did you get such unfounded advice?? I doubt it was from anyone who owns an overdrive equipped vehicle! I would suggest that you find someone who has an overdrive equipped vehicle and go for a ride. It doesn't have to be a Ford pickup. There were many cars with overdrive in the late '40's and through the '50's. You will see how much flexibility and driving pleasure it adds!

Installing an overdrive transmission does not radically alter the vehicle! The only visible differences are a small relay on the firewall, a control cable under the dash, a kickdown switch hidden under the gas pedal and some inconspicuous wiring. The crossmember may or may not need altering, but who will notice?
I think that when a person wants some how-to advice, we should offer that advice (only if qualified) instead of going off on a Negative Nancy rant with our own personal (often unfounded) personal opinion!

As Ross describes below. Pretty awful alteration for a pick up and expensive too. As to who advised me? Well only the this country's premier and foremost expert on Ford Trucks of this vintage is all! Just a regular "no-body" LOL!! Personal opinions is all Im writing down here, nothing more Mr. 40 Delux.

[3twinridges]

Lots of good stuff on here about this conversion. Another option to get a little more speed is putting a 3.54 R&P in the Dana 44. It will get you a few more mph. That option isn’t cheap either though.

JB

[Eagle43]

I finally finished installing the motor and R10 overdrive. I had some difficulty finding a 16 spline yoke but found a new Powerglide one last week. It fits perfectly and the drive shaft turned out to be the correct length also and is in place with new u-joints. I still need to find a side shift steering column but I think I have a lead on one about two hours away. Any ideas as to what I should expect to pay for a steering column without a steering wheel? I also need to still find a clutch pedal.

The brake MC is attached to the crossmember which is mounted 3.5" back but will need a rod extension to reach the brake pedal. The clutch/brake assembly will attach to the short section of crossmember which is in the original position. There is plenty of space for the solenoid.

Tomorrow I plan to start replacing the king pins, the brake shoes, brake lines and hoses and shocks.

[Bob C]

I put a side shift in my F2 and just used part number 3509 from a 1950 car and
installed it on the pickup steering gear.

[Bob C]

double post

[tubman]

Well, it looks like that's handled. I think it was Nikola Tesla that said, "Those who say it can't be done should get out of the way of those doing it". (Or something similar).

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Where there's a will ,there's a way. Your determination paid off. Great job and thanks for posting.

[Eagle43]

I've been working on putting together a side shift steering column. I've made a number of visits to our local salvage yard where they do have a collection of vintage vehicles. So far I harvested the shift linkages from a 1950ish Chev sedan and a steering column and steering wheel from an unidentified 1950ish truck, probably a Studebaker. The shift box and linkage fits on top of the column and thus easy to get off. The steering column is almost identical to the F1 but much longer. I just cut it off with a hack saw. The steering wheel is almost identical to the F1 wheel including the horn parts but needs a lot of work - lots of cracks.
I have some questions.
1. What is the length of a F1 steering column?
2. What is the best way to connect the "pipe" to the stub that comes out of my steering box? The stub is 3/4" and the central column pipe is 15/16" Is welding safe enough or is there a better way to connect?
3. Should I also harvest the steering box left in the truck? Can the shortened pipe be reconnected to the worm gear? The steering box appears to be identical to my F1 box which was dry and has rusted bearings which should be replaced anyway.

[Eagle43]

Just an additional question regarding repairing the cracked steering wheel. What is the best material to use for filling the cracks? You Tube videos show epoxy, Bondo, epoxy putty and JB Weld being used. Any experience with any of these?

[rotorwrench]

PC-7 epoxy is the most commonly used material since it is more putty like and easy to work. Some folks use lacquer thinner to smooth it out.

[Ol' Ron]

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I like the F130 3 speed with OD from the 80's trucks. They adapt easy to the flathead by boring the register and welding Tabs on the steel nell housing. Have one in my truck.
Gramps

[rotorwrench]

I just wish that some entrepreneur would start manufacturing new hard parts for the Tremec T170 RTS 4-speed TODs. The good ratios are getting harder to find.

[1948F-1Pickup]

I also used PC-7 epoxy. Actually that whole process was very long-winded and I'd like to not repeat it.....

[Eagle43]

I finally have the side shift column adapted and installed and I thought I'd show some pictures. I mounted the shift box as close to the engine as possible and I think it will clear the cab when I put it back into position. This is my first experience with a side shift other than driving them in my younger days but it turned out to be quite simple to get it to work. With the box mounted and open so I could see inside and both arms in the neutral position and exactly lined up and both transmission levers in the neutral position it was just a matter of bending and cutting the rods to fit between them. The top of the shifter gave me a lot of difficulty since it was rusted solid but I got it to work eventually. It seems to shift as it's supposed to but I guess I won't know for sure until I actually drive it. I patched all the cracks in steering wheel with Gorilla epoxy putty after cleaning them out with a Dremel. I still haven't found a clutch pedal so I made a temporary one which seems to work well enough so I can drive it out of the garage so I will have room to work on the sheet metal, cutting out rust and welding in new metal, which will be the next job. It's keeping me busy and from getting bored with not much else to do and no places to go.

[Scotty's 52 F3]

Nice work. Thanks for posting this.