29 Roadster top irons make over

[ford-m]

Spent the weekend dismantling the top irons from the cross bows.
Chiseled out the old rotten material.

Large bow had a hardened rock like material and tow other bows had a layer of what seemed like pressed cardboard and a layer of 1/4 wood.
I will be steaming new wood strips to bend them and install them.
Bows are off to the sandblasting shop tomorrow.

[Randy in ca]

What are you planning on replacing the fill/tacking material in the bows with?

[Spokes]

Where did you use the Corona ???

[Mike Peters]

I also would like to get some ideas about what to use for nailing inserts for these top irons.
Am working on a 28 Phaeton with top irons in similar condition to your own. No one sells anything for this that I am aware, only straight top bow wood. Thanks

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Mike Peters

I also would like to get some ideas about what to use for nailing inserts for these top irons.
Am working on a 28 Phaeton with top irons in similar condition to your own. No one sells anything for this that I am aware, only straight top bow wood. Thanks

How would something like this work for you?

https://www.lebaronbonney.com/cart/itemdesc.php?ic=5039

or

https://www.lebaronbonney.com/cart/itemdesc.php?ic=5040

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

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Steaming thin strips and gluing with water soluble glue is how we do them too however one word of caution, you need to make a fixture to to hold the top irons in the correct curvature in that area. The first ones we ever did actually tried to straighten out in the curved area as the wood dried.

As for the tubular rivets, use brake line tubing. Cut an extra long length of tubing and cut the end at 45 degrees. Drive the piece in until you can cut the 45 degree end straight. The end you were hammering on with be damaged too, so cut that end too and then use a tool that you fabricate in a lathe to roll over the ends.

[tinman080]

Try buggy.com (Justin Carriage Works originally) click on the buggy breakdown pic for parts. They have steam-bent oak bows in different widths for a crazy low price ($18.00), I used these when I built my 1903 Olds. There is plenty of end length for trimming and fitting. Best of Luck, Gary

[ford-m]

Continuing with my to irons today I spent considerable time trying to keep it original wood. This turned out to be too much and I elected to use some plastic I had around the shop. Bends super easy and will accept nails/screws and will last forever. I tried steam bending the wood but it wasn't working for me.

Cut strips of 1 1/4 x 5/16 plastic stock to size



Round over one side to fit inside bow.





I mitred the end to fit the tapered bow end. I used the old pieces I took out as a template



Finished product (almost). I still had to hammer like heck to get it in there.

[Mike Peters]

Loved your solution! After tho top is installed, none of the plastic will be seen, yet it will hold nails/screws. I will be doing something similar when I get to the top irons on my 28 phaeton. I restored a '15 T touring a couple years ago and ran into the same problem with the tack rails for the front and rear seats. New wood was not available, but a supplier of Model T wood did sell plastic strips that made a wonderful wood substitute for tack rails. The plastic conformed perfectly to the seat backs and held upholstery tacks very well.

[Classiccanuck]

Nice! great idea, I've been holding off doing my bows for a while now, where did you find the plastic you are using?

[ford-m]

The plastic I had in the shop lying around. Bought it from these guys years ago to rebuild a dash on a boat. I believe it was called starboard
http://www.masplastics.com/about/about.php

[ford-m]

Here they are with all the plastic installed. It went a lot easier than I thought and even easier once I introduced the heat gun to warm them up before pounding them in.





Now to fasten the wooden bows, I will use Brent's idea of the break lines and peen them over.
Thanks for the idea Brent

As for the tubular rivets, use brake line tubing. Cut an extra long length of tubing and cut the end at 45 degrees. Drive the piece in until you can cut the 45 degree end straight. The end you were hammering on with be damaged too, so cut that end too and then use a tool that you fabricate in a lathe to roll over the ends.

[Classiccanuck]

Originally Posted by ford-m

The plastic I had in the shop lying around. Bought it from these guys years ago to rebuild a dash on a boat. I believe it was called starboard
http://www.masplastics.com/about/about.php

Thanks! enjoying the pic's you have been posting, keep it up.

[Classiccanuck]

Originally Posted by ford-m

The plastic I had in the shop lying around. Bought it from these guys years ago to rebuild a dash on a boat. I believe it was called starboard
http://www.masplastics.com/about/about.php

Could not find any distributor of "Starboard" willing to sell anything less than a 4'x8' sheet ($258 CDN). Bought a couple of polyethylene kitchen cutting boards and cut into strips, seems to bend easy with a little heat.

[ford-m]

That should work. Same type of material.

[Classiccanuck]

Originally Posted by ford-m

That should work. Same type of material.

checked out product information, and Starboard was also a polyethylene. Going to round over the edge and try them out.

[pooch]

As staples are usually used these days, I would like to know how good this stuff grabs the staple ....

[ford-m]

Originally Posted by pooch

As staples are usually used these days, I would like to know how good this stuff grabs the staple ....

I did some test shots in some spare plastic i had before I installed it and the staples stuck to the plastic like $hit to a goose. Had trouble prying the suckers out. I'm using 3/8 stainless upholstery staples.

Here they are painted. I also sprayed mould release agent befor the epoxy primer and paint to get the best adhesion.

[Classiccanuck]

Originally Posted by pooch

As staples are usually used these days, I would like to know how good this stuff grabs the staple ....

shot a few staples into the "cutting board" material, no problem, had to use side cutters to pry staples out.

[Classiccanuck]

Ford-M, how thick did you cut the plastic you used?

[ford-m]

Originally Posted by Classiccanuck

Ford-M, how thick did you cut the plastic you used?

I cut the material at 3/8 thick and doubled it up.
Here is photo of my test staples. They are not coming out.

[pooch]

Originally Posted by ford-m

I did some test shots in some spare plastic i had before I installed it and the staples stuck to the plastic like $hit to a goose. Had trouble prying the suckers out. I'm using 3/8 stainless upholstery staples.

Here they are painted. I also sprayed mould release agent befor the epoxy primer and paint to get the best adhesion.

Good to see fresh ideas on solving problems with something that is not visible .

Am curious as to why you used a mould release agent before painting ?

The stuff I use is water soluble .

[macdonge]

ford-m... I'm in the midst of redoing my '30 Roadster's top and like the solution you came up with for tacking material in the top iron frames. I've seen your photos and had a question. You say you doubled up on the material thickness. Did you sandwich them first and install it all in one go or put them in individually, one after the other?

From the look/feel of what was in there, I thought my irons contained rotted wood. It was the consistency of wimpy cork. Turned out (as I began to remove it) that it was just cardboard that someone had stuffed in there the last time the top was replaced. One piece of the stuff indicated it had come from a box of Whiskey bottled in 1949!

Thanks in advance for your advice. By the way, I lived in Whitby for 2 years as a kid. Nice town. Retired to the Eastern Townships of Quebec now.

Cheers!

[ford-m]

Originally Posted by macdonge

ford-m... I'm in the midst of redoing my '30 Roadster's top and like the solution you came up with for tacking material in the top iron frames. I've seen your photos and had a question. You say you doubled up on the material thickness. Did you sandwich them first and install it all in one go or put them in individually, one after the other?

From the look/feel of what was in there, I thought my irons contained rotted wood. It was the consistency of wimpy cork. Turned out (as I began to remove it) that it was just cardboard that someone had stuffed in there the last time the top was replaced. One piece of the stuff indicated it had come from a box of Whiskey bottled in 1949!

Thanks in advance for your advice. By the way, I lived in Whitby for 2 years as a kid. Nice town. Retired to the Eastern Townships of Quebec now.

Cheers!

Hello,
Thought I had answered the pm but it didn't go through.
Yes I doubled up on the pieces to add in the easiness of installation. Adding some heat ( propane torch) assisted greatly.
Cheers,
Michael

[Randy in ca]

What happened to all the pictures??

[Tom Wesenberg]

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Originally Posted by Classiccanuck

Ford-M, how thick did you cut the plastic you used?

I think that's what happens when the picture is downloaded full size from some hosting site, then the picture is removed or the hosting site changes.

After Photobucket changed about 5 years ago I can't use it now, and I lost over a thousand pictures I had in there. Now I download thumbnail size from my computer, so you have to click to view it full size, but at least the picture will always be here.

BTW, this picture is of the Benton Harbor Fruit Market, where I used to ride with a distant relative in his 1936 Ford truck to sell fruit.

[Barry B./ Ma.]

If the filler material is fairly intact you can use some Kwik Poly available from LeBaron Bonney, worked well on my 29 roadster and holds nails well. Ranchers use it for reshoeing horses hoofs. I realize it's a little late in your case as you dug out all the material and you needed to replace it with something else.

[ford-m]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

I think that's what happens when the picture is downloaded full size from some hosting site, then the picture is removed or the hosting site changes.

After Photobucket changed about 5 years ago I can't use it now, and I lost over a thousand pictures I had in there. Now I download thumbnail size from my computer, so you have to click to view it full size, but at least the picture will always be here.

BTW, this picture is of the Benton Harbor Fruit Market, where I used to ride with a distant relative in his 1936 Ford truck to sell fruit.

Hi Tom,
Yes photo bucket didn't warn me that when I organized the photos they would cause issues here.
Here is a link to all the photos.

http://s1291.photobucket.com/user/Fo...Roadster/story

[Jim M]

I went to Walmart and bought a small kitchen cutting board. Took it home and made the filler strips. Worked great! Took a couple of tries to get the correct edge bevel and width but when I got the pattern finished they were a snap and worked great

[macdonge]

Ditto... the Walmart cutting board that is. The material in the one I got was even black, to match the top irons.

[Mike Peters]

This may be late in this thread, but I just finished repairing the top bows for a Phaeton project. I had a plastic mud flap salvaged from a 1978 Uhaul truck I junked out a year ago. Stiff black plastic 1/4" thick. It held a finishing nail well, so I did what Michael in Whitby did. Two of my bows had no wood at all, so I cut 3 strips for each bow on my table saw, with the top strip tapered on the same table saw. Then sprayed on some soapy water and drove them in with a hammer. You can also drive them in one at a time. Works both ways. The photos show the steps involved. Thanks Michael!! I plan to use Quik Poly or something similar to repair the old wood in the remaining bows.

Moral of the story: It's hard to know what may become useful in the future, so one has to be careful what he or she throws away. In this case it was plastic mud flaps.

[Jim M]

For some reason I can't see the pics. Anyone is having a problem and/or know how to fix it? I just have a square box with a cat in it and message picture not found?????

As a side note I bought a small plastic cutting board from Walmart and it worked great! Make sure you bevel the top edges and taper the piece a little. After a couple of trial and errors they came out great!

[wrndln]

I think the missing pictures is because Photobucket changed their policies and unless you pay them ransom, they delete your pictures. Nice business model!!! Luckily I stopped using them a couple years ago, but I am sure some of my older posts look the same (no pictures) like above.
Rusty Nelson

[Rockabilly Rodder]

Don't know if this thread is still active but can anyone provide the dimensions of each of
the irons & Stanchens (all six pieces for one side) on an original top? I want to fabricate a set for my 29. I did find on another thread where some one posted the dimensional distance from center to center of the connecting rivets but the geometry dose not seem to work out when folding my models.