Various wheels from 1940 Ford Deluxe purchase

[WarbirdPhotog]

Hey all, so I'm branching this out into it's own thread since now I have a mix of six wheels/rims that don't really match other than two of them. It sounds like some of these are for trucks. But, sadly, there's not a matching four set much less five. So the question is, do I use any of these or try and get ahold of different rims for the stock 1940 Deluxe Sedan?

RIM #1 - This was discussed in the previous thread https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?p=2248690
Possibly a 15x5, a 16 center with a 15 outer welded together. There is a KH and Ford present.







RIM #2 - This also was discussed in the previous thread as another possible 15x5, a 16 center with a 15 outer welded together. There is a KH and Ford present. Rim 1 and 2 are the only matching ones it seems.







RIM #3 - 16.5 maybe? 3.25 hole. KH and Ford are present and it has some pin striping.













RIM #4 - 16 it looks like with 3.25 hole. KH and Ford are present.

[WarbirdPhotog]

RIM #5 - 17 it looks like with 3.25 hole. There are NO markings on this.











RIM #6 - 17 it looks like with 3.25 hole. There is a Ford 'looking' logo marking (FOMOCO Maybe for Ford Motor Company?) and KH.

[cas3]

Lotsa things goin on here. 1st, when you measure a wheel to determine tire size, you want to measure across the the rim where the tire bead will sit, not the widest distance of the rim. In one pic you call it a 17" rim, yet the tire state 16 x 650 in the pic. iIn general, if a rim measures aprox 17", it will be a 16" rim. A rim measuring 16" across will be a 15" rim, etc. You have cleaned up the writing to see the KH, and Ford, but look closer and there will be a date stamp to. Month, and year, like 8 41, Aug, 1941. The later wheels with a Fomoco stamp are most likely from a 1/2 ton pickup all the way up to 66. Those take the same hub cap, same "innie nubs for the hub cap, and came in 15" and 16". They are noticeably heavier than a car wheel. Lincoln and Mercury had a 15" wheel also. Cars from 40 to 48 were 16 x 4 1/2

[Lanny]

As cas3 told you, the bead is where a wheel and a tire get there measurement at.
If you take a wire and bend it into a U shape, bend it till it touches the bead of a
wheel (with NO tire on of coarse) you will see that the wheel that measured 17"
across the total width of the wheel, will measure 16" at the bead where the tips
of your wire touches it.
Your wheels that measure 16" across the whole wheel, will measure 15" at the bead.
And, as you said about #1 this 15" wheel has been welded together by someone.

Below I'll post 2 pictures, one is of a '40-'41 wheel (with lug holes tapered inward),
and the other is a '46-'48 Ford wheel, with the lug holes volcanoed outward. That's
the way most every wheel has the lug holes made since then to the present.

Click on picture to Enlarge

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by Lanny

As cas3 told you, the bead is where a wheel and a tire get there measurement at.
If you take a wire and bend it into a U shape, bend it till it touches the bead of a
wheel (with NO tire on of coarse) you will see that the wheel that measured 17"
across the total width of the wheel, will measure 16" at the bead where the tips
of your wire touches it.
Your wheels that measure 16" across the whole wheel, will measure 15" at the bead.
And, as you said about #1 this 15" wheel has been welded together by someone.

Below I'll post 2 pictures, one is of a '40-'41 wheel (with lug holes tapered inward),
and the other is a '46-'48 Ford wheel, with the lug holes volcanoed outward. That's
the way most every wheel has the lug holes made since then to the present.

Click on picture to Enlarge

[WarbirdPhotog]

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Originally Posted by cas3

Lotsa things goin on here. 1st, when you measure a wheel to determine tire size, you want to measure across the the rim where the tire bead will sit, not the widest distance of the rim. In one pic you call it a 17" rim, yet the tire state 16 x 650 in the pic. iIn general, if a rim measures aprox 17", it will be a 16" rim. A rim measuring 16" across will be a 15" rim, etc. You have cleaned up the writing to see the KH, and Ford, but look closer and there will be a date stamp to. Month, and year, like 8 41, Aug, 1941. The later wheels with a Fomoco stamp are most likely from a 1/2 ton pickup all the way up to 66. Those take the same hub cap, same "innie nubs for the hub cap, and came in 15" and 16". They are noticeably heavier than a car wheel. Lincoln and Mercury had a 15" wheel also. Cars from 40 to 48 were 16 x 4 1/2

Thanks, first time I've really had to measure rims. With WW2 Jeeps, it's a bit easier (it's combat rims or not). So apologies for the learning process here when it comes to civilian.

I'll do some investigating this weekend and see if I can dig up some dates. The black paint is on thick (looks hand done by the brush strokes) so that might be a bit more difficult. Are they usually on the rim side or the tire side? Or both?

Originally Posted by Lanny

As cas3 told you, the bead is where a wheel and a tire get there measurement at. If you take a wire and bend it into a U shape, bend it till it touches the bead of a wheel (with NO tire on of coarse) you will see that the wheel that measured 17" across the total width of the wheel, will measure 16" at the bead where the tips of your wire touches it. Your wheels that measure 16" across the whole wheel, will measure 15" at the bead. And, as you said about #1 this 15" wheel has been welded together by someone. Below I'll post 2 pictures, one is of a '40-'41 wheel (with lug holes tapered inward), and the other is a '46-'48 Ford wheel, with the lug holes volcanoed outward. That's the way most every wheel has the lug holes made since then to the present.
Click on picture to Enlarge

Thanks for the help. It seems overall, none of these are right for a 1940 Deluxe Sedan, and the two that are closest are welded works that might not be 'round' or safe, for that matter. So I might need to go on the hunt for correct sized rims.

[deuce lover]

Also since the the tires are mounted we can't see the drop center.1940 wheels do not have a slope on the back side .One wheel you have pictured (rim 4) its easy to see clearly the slope in your pic.Rim 5 appears appears to be correct.

[19Fordy]

Disregard all the wheels that have the home made welded together center and rim combo.

Jack up your car and install each wheel one at a time and spin the wheel to see if its "on center", straight or bent.

There is no doubt that you would be better off buying 4 new 15 or 16 in rims in much better condition than those you have. Make sure the 40 hubcaps will fit.

For example here is a 40 (First photo) with 2 1950 Merc front wheels and 2 1950 Lincoln rear wheels. Suspension and drive train are stock. The Ford hub caps will not fit the Merc wheels. Hence, no hubcaps installed.

2nd photo has stock 40 Ford 16 in. rims with 6:00 x 16 tires. Suspension and drive train are stock.

3rd photo also uses 15 in. rims with "big and littles" and modified stock suspension.

Thoughtfully decide what "look" you are seeking as tires and wheels are very expensive.
Plan ahead and look before you leap.

[40larry]

Originally Posted by cas3

Lotsa things goin on here. 1st, when you measure a wheel to determine tire size, you want to measure across the the rim where the tire bead will sit, not the widest distance of the rim. In one pic you call it a 17" rim, yet the tire state 16 x 650 in the pic. iIn general, if a rim measures aprox 17", it will be a 16" rim. A rim measuring 16" across will be a 15" rim, etc. You have cleaned up the writing to see the KH, and Ford, but look closer and there will be a date stamp to. Month, and year, like 8 41, Aug, 1941. The later wheels with a Fomoco stamp are most likely from a 1/2 ton pickup all the way up to 66. Those take the same hub cap, same "innie nubs for the hub cap, and came in 15" and 16". They are noticeably heavier than a car wheel. Lincoln and Mercury had a 15" wheel also. Cars from 40 to 48 were 16 x 4 1/2

the last statement is wrong. 1940 and 1941 wheels are 4 inches wide. I do not know when change to 4.5 inches was made but all 1946 to 1948 wheels are 4.5 inches in width.

[cas3]

^^^, this is correct. I know the difference, just typing when I should be in bed !

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by 19Fordy

Disregard all the wheels that have the home made welded together center and rim combo.

Jack up your car and install each wheel one at a time and spin the wheel to see if its "on center", straight or bent.

There is no doubt that you would be better off buying 4 new 15 or 16 in rims in much better condition than those you have. Make sure the 40 hubcaps will fit.

For example here is a 40 (First photo) with 2 1950 Merc front wheels and 2 1950 Lincoln rear wheels. Suspension and drive train are stock. The Ford hub caps will not fit the Merc wheels. Hence, no hubcaps installed.

2nd photo has stock 40 Ford 16 in. rims with 6:00 x 16 tires. Suspension and drive train are stock.

3rd photo also uses 15 in. rims with "big and littles" and modified stock suspension.

Thoughtfully decide what "look" you are seeking as tires and wheels are very expensive.
Plan ahead and look before you leap.

[19Fordy]

THANK YOU, Pete.
I bought that car in 1963 and remember driving it from MA to WI and then to FL in 1972.
Those were good days.

[Terry,OH]

Ford started to pin stripe rims after 1940. The FOMOCO logo was not used pre war. Often there are dates stamped on the rims. As deuce lover mentions above the flat area identifies the 40 rim. along with dimensions.

[WarbirdPhotog]

Originally Posted by Terry,OH

Ford started to pin stripe rims after 1940. The FOMOCO logo was not used pre war. Often there are dates stamped on the rims. As deuce lover mentions above the flat area identifies the 40 rim. along with dimensions.

I'm going to try and find the date stamps today. It seems they could be near the valve or where the tire sits, which might be difficult without removing the tires for now. But it seems to me, so far, that I'm just going to need to hunt for 16x4 rims. Now, 16x4.5 or 5 sounds like they would work, just not 'correct' for the vehicle if taken back to stock. I am a little concerned about the availability of 16x4 rims, as they seem to be tough to find in good enough condition to use at a decent price.

[Terry,OH]

If there is a date stamp it is close to the location of the script or KH, not near the tire bead. It would be covered when the hub cap is installed. Tire 5 above does appear to have the flats for the 1940 rim.

[Seth Swoboda]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Also since the the tires are mounted we can't see the drop center.1940 wheels do not have a slope on the back side .One wheel you have pictured (rim 4) its easy to see clearly the slope in your pic.Rim 5 appears appears to be correct.

This is perhaps the best information on this thread so far.

[19Fordy]

Here's a ton of photos of 1940 rims.
https://www.bing.com/search?q=1940+f...ANAB01&PC=HCTS

[38 coupe]

I would trade off or sell rims #1 and #2 with no guarantee. They probably work, but the obvious home job welds holding the center to the hoops would make me uncomfortable.

The tires mounted will tell you what rims sizes you have.

Rims #3 and #5 are 16 inch rims. Take the tires off and measure the width between the lips. They take stock 1940 hub caps. Clean the paint off with your favorite method and inspect for damage. If no damage then you need two or three more rims matching these. Any width from 4 to 5 inches will work and look good, I would not mix widths on the same axle.

Rim #4 is a 15 inch rim from a Mercury or Ford pickup. These used to be high demand wheels, maybe still are? I would sell that one along with rims #1 and #2.

[Newc]

Note that the lug studs changed length also. When 'outie' lug hole wheels are put on short studs, your lug nuts will only use HALF their their threads !! Pre-war goes with pre -war, and post -war goes with post- war. Newc

[Lanny]

Originally Posted by deuce lover

Also since the the tires are mounted we can't see the drop center.1940 wheels do not have a slope on the back side .One wheel you have pictured (rim 4) its easy to see clearly the slope in your pic.Rim 5 appears appears to be correct.

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Even with the tire on the wheel, a person can Easily See the contour of the
drop center by Simply looking at the back of the wheel...




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