The Ford Barn

California Charlie · 06-30-2010, 08:09 PM

With all that's already been said about working with frame rivets, and me in the process of drilling out the old rivets and wondering how I'm going to get into some of the hard to reach places etc, in additon figuring out who is going to help me with this process, I'm wondering is there anything else that can be used?

I have bought the rivets and some of the tools to use, however I just want to restore and have a clean driver, and I'm open to hear about any alternatives which may be out there to either make the rivet process easy enough for one person to do, or any substitute process that can be used to make my assembly process not as impossible for me as it looks.

I've got roadster rear frame rails to install, all metal floor pans etc, etc. A big potential rivet fun event ahead of me. Who's been there and done that? Thanks in advance for all that may reply to my question. CC

Steve Plucker · 06-30-2010, 09:25 PM

My thoughts:

What ever you do...DO NOT cut corners on this project. If you do not think you can do it successfully, then get a professional to do it under your guidence. Get it right the first time or as they say..."You can pay me now or pay me later"!

Try NOT to overdrill the holes! I would grind them off then punch out the rest.

Pluck

Brentwood Bob · 07-01-2010, 02:02 AM

Try a chisel. cut off flush, and then punch out the rest of the rivet. Worked better than drilling out the rivets for me to remove a center cross member.

wrndln · 07-01-2010, 12:09 PM

I just removed the 12 - 5/16" runningboard rivets on my frame a few days ago. I center punched the head and used a 3/16" drill bit to drill through the center of the rivet to the point where the runningboard bracket meets the frame or slightly further, but not all the way through the rivet. Then I carefully used a little large drill bit (about 1/4" to redrill the hole to enlarge it, making sure I was still centered. Finally I used a 5/16" drill bit and repeated the same procedure as before. I then took a punch and drove the remains of the rivet out. I didn't drill all the way through, so I could use a punch to drive it out. It wasn't a real hard job and I didn't enlarge any of the bracket or frame holes. I also didn't jimmy up the brackets with a chisel like will normally happen if you use a chisel to shear off the head. The same procedure would work the same for 1/4" rivets.

Brubaker · 07-01-2010, 12:16 PM

If you can find a short piece of I-beam or railroad tie, use a rotary tool and make a divot matching the rivet head. It makes a good bucking bar. Definitely a two-man job.

rotorwrench · 07-01-2010, 01:59 PM

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Making bucking bars can be kind of a bear due to the large size of the metal required. Heavy rectangular bar stock say about 2" or 3" X 1" would be a good start. Old trailer and implement hitches use metal like this. Having an Oxy/Acetylene set up for cutting & heating is a must. Round bar stock can be used too if you have a source. Double curved shapes(like a straitened out Z shape) will fit into the corners & rails if trimmed to applicable lengths to fit well and leave enough room to buck the rivet at hand. You can stick weld heavy pieces together to get shapes you need if you are so equipped. If a weld breaks while bucking then weld it back up with a few more passes with the filler rod and deeper V -out. You would be surprized at how well a funky looking bar will work as long as it fits and gets good angular placement for hammering. A red hot rivet bucks pretty easy compared to a cold one.

Marco Tahtaras · 07-01-2010, 04:12 PM

It sounds like you are working primarily on the body. That is a different story as they are 3/16" rivets and done cold with a waffle tool. They still require two people but are quite easy. I haven't done the rear cross sill which is a little trickier. Maybe someone can chime in with thoughts on that one as I'd just borrow special equipment others don't have access to.

California Charlie · 07-01-2010, 07:57 PM

Thanks to all that have responded. I guess I've been lucky in my effort to drill out the rivets. I've been stopping the drilling process when the rivet head basically comes off and then going ahead with punching the rest of the rivet out. I have both body and rear frame rails to install once I also install the rear rails in this restoration process. I never thought I would become a body and fender man when I entered this hobby several years ago. I do find it quite satisfying as I master some of the many skills needed for a full restoration.

I do have another question. It appears the process goes better with the heated rivets. I know some are also supposed to be installed cold. Would there be an issue with installing them all hot?? Just curious. CC

Marco Tahtaras · 07-01-2010, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by California Charlie

I do have another question. It appears the process goes better with the heated rivets. I know some are also supposed to be installed cold. Would there be an issue with installing them all hot?? Just curious. CC

Ok, I'm confused. I think there may be a terminology issue going on here. The first pic is the frame:

The frame is riveted primarily 1/4" rivets with a few 5/16" rivets for the running board brackets. These are done hot and have holes a bit over sized that must be filled by the rivet.

By contrast, body assemblies as shown below use 3/16" rivets which are done cold. The holes ARE NOT any larger than needed to slip the rivet in. The waffle setting tool is used in every case I can think of including the floor assembly.

California Charlie · 07-02-2010, 11:59 AM

You're absolutely correct Marco. My Model "A" terminology was way off in reference to the "Frame" where the "Hot" rivets go. In fact this has now cleared up a little confusion I had with where "Hot" and "Cold" rivets are properly set.

I'm back on track now .....Ready to tackle the rivet process. I have a new sense that I can do this...I have the waffle rivet setting tool.

By the way, great pictures that you added to your last post here.

Thanks, CC

PO51 · 07-02-2010, 04:35 PM

CC,
If you need some help holding the rivets when you peen them let me know, I can learn something which may come in handy.
Steve

California Charlie · 07-02-2010, 08:23 PM

Sounds like a great learning experience for the both of us.

I sent you an email.

Thanks...CC

06-30-2010, 08:09 PM	#1
California Charlie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 157	Frame rivets revisited With all that's already been said about working with frame rivets, and me in the process of drilling out the old rivets and wondering how I'm going to get into some of the hard to reach places etc, in additon figuring out who is going to help me with this process, I'm wondering is there anything else that can be used? I have bought the rivets and some of the tools to use, however I just want to restore and have a clean driver, and I'm open to hear about any alternatives which may be out there to either make the rivet process easy enough for one person to do, or any substitute process that can be used to make my assembly process not as impossible for me as it looks. I've got roadster rear frame rails to install, all metal floor pans etc, etc. A big potential rivet fun event ahead of me. Who's been there and done that? Thanks in advance for all that may reply to my question. CC

06-30-2010, 09:25 PM	#2
Steve Plucker BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Walla Walla, Washington USA Posts: 6,066	Re: Frame rivets revisited My thoughts: What ever you do...DO NOT cut corners on this project. If you do not think you can do it successfully, then get a professional to do it under your guidence. Get it right the first time or as they say..."You can pay me now or pay me later"! Try NOT to overdrill the holes! I would grind them off then punch out the rest. Pluck

07-01-2010, 02:02 AM	#3
Brentwood Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: brentwood, ca Posts: 4,274	Re: Frame rivets revisited Try a chisel. cut off flush, and then punch out the rest of the rivet. Worked better than drilling out the rivets for me to remove a center cross member.

07-01-2010, 12:09 PM	#4
wrndln Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lakeville, MN Posts: 5,169	Re: Frame rivets revisited I just removed the 12 - 5/16" runningboard rivets on my frame a few days ago. I center punched the head and used a 3/16" drill bit to drill through the center of the rivet to the point where the runningboard bracket meets the frame or slightly further, but not all the way through the rivet. Then I carefully used a little large drill bit (about 1/4" to redrill the hole to enlarge it, making sure I was still centered. Finally I used a 5/16" drill bit and repeated the same procedure as before. I then took a punch and drove the remains of the rivet out. I didn't drill all the way through, so I could use a punch to drive it out. It wasn't a real hard job and I didn't enlarge any of the bracket or frame holes. I also didn't jimmy up the brackets with a chisel like will normally happen if you use a chisel to shear off the head. The same procedure would work the same for 1/4" rivets.

07-01-2010, 12:16 PM	#5
Brubaker Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Northern California Posts: 765	Re: Frame rivets revisited If you can find a short piece of I-beam or railroad tie, use a rotary tool and make a divot matching the rivet head. It makes a good bucking bar. Definitely a two-man job.

07-01-2010, 01:59 PM	#6
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,476	Re: Frame rivets revisited Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Making bucking bars can be kind of a bear due to the large size of the metal required. Heavy rectangular bar stock say about 2" or 3" X 1" would be a good start. Old trailer and implement hitches use metal like this. Having an Oxy/Acetylene set up for cutting & heating is a must. Round bar stock can be used too if you have a source. Double curved shapes(like a straitened out Z shape) will fit into the corners & rails if trimmed to applicable lengths to fit well and leave enough room to buck the rivet at hand. You can stick weld heavy pieces together to get shapes you need if you are so equipped. If a weld breaks while bucking then weld it back up with a few more passes with the filler rod and deeper V -out. You would be surprized at how well a funky looking bar will work as long as it fits and gets good angular placement for hammering. A red hot rivet bucks pretty easy compared to a cold one.

07-01-2010, 04:12 PM	#7
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: Frame rivets revisited It sounds like you are working primarily on the body. That is a different story as they are 3/16" rivets and done cold with a waffle tool. They still require two people but are quite easy. I haven't done the rear cross sill which is a little trickier. Maybe someone can chime in with thoughts on that one as I'd just borrow special equipment others don't have access to. __________________ http://www.abarnyard.com/

07-01-2010, 07:57 PM	#8
California Charlie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 157	Re: Frame rivets revisited Thanks to all that have responded. I guess I've been lucky in my effort to drill out the rivets. I've been stopping the drilling process when the rivet head basically comes off and then going ahead with punching the rest of the rivet out. I have both body and rear frame rails to install once I also install the rear rails in this restoration process. I never thought I would become a body and fender man when I entered this hobby several years ago. I do find it quite satisfying as I master some of the many skills needed for a full restoration. I do have another question. It appears the process goes better with the heated rivets. I know some are also supposed to be installed cold. Would there be an issue with installing them all hot?? Just curious. CC

07-02-2010, 11:59 AM	#10
California Charlie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 157	Re: Frame rivets revisited You're absolutely correct Marco. My Model "A" terminology was way off in reference to the "Frame" where the "Hot" rivets go. In fact this has now cleared up a little confusion I had with where "Hot" and "Cold" rivets are properly set. I'm back on track now .....Ready to tackle the rivet process. I have a new sense that I can do this...I have the waffle rivet setting tool. By the way, great pictures that you added to your last post here. Thanks, CC Last edited by California Charlie; 07-02-2010 at 12:07 PM.

07-02-2010, 04:35 PM	#11
PO51 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Upland Ca Posts: 274	Re: Frame rivets revisited CC, If you need some help holding the rivets when you peen them let me know, I can learn something which may come in handy. Steve

07-02-2010, 08:23 PM	#12
California Charlie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 157	Re: Frame rivets revisited Sounds like a great learning experience for the both of us. I sent you an email. Thanks...CC