engine rebuilder near Redding California

[qmdv]

Am looking to get a flathead rebuilt. I live about 30 miles south of the Cal/Oregon border just off Interstate 5. There is a good machine shop in Medford Oregon that will do it all and assemble the engine. But I would like to find somebody that had and engine test stand to run the engine after the build.

H and H flathead in Montrose California has a good reputation but that is a bit too far to go. I was told by somebody that I trust that Flathead City in Grants Pass has all the stuff and expertise to do the job but I think the guy for some reason cannot deliver anymore. Lots of complaints on this forum.

I have most of the parts already and I do not mind driving several hundred miles to get this taken care of.

Thanks

[philipswanson]

Stick with Medford and assemble it yourself after getting the machine work done. That's the fun part of the hobby. You don't need a test stand if you take your time.

[51504bat]

Check out this thread about Flathead City:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264309
Doesn't sound like someone you want to deal with. IMHO.


If you want to drive to the Fresno area, Tim McMaster can handle it.
http://yblockguy.com/

[qmdv]

Originally Posted by 51504bat

Check out this thread about Flathead City:
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showthread.php?t=264309
Doesn't sound like someone you want to deal with. IMHO.


If you want to drive to the Fresno area, Tim McMaster can handle it.
http://yblockguy.com/

Am familiar with Flathead city. Met him several years ago. Seemed OK at the time. I will keep my distanced

[frnkeore]

Give Ken a call at Quality Machine. He does high in builds.

He has a dyno to test with, too.

541 776 0692

[Paul Bennett]

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Originally Posted by qmdv

...I was told by somebody that I trust that Flathead City in Grants Pass has all the stuff and expertise to do the job but I think the guy for some reason cannot deliver anymore. Lots of complaints on this forum.

I gave Gary Howard at Flathead City $5k in Oct 2018. He delivered me NOTHING but excuses. He hasn't answered the phone in 6 months.

I hear tell I'm not the only one. PM me for recommendations.

[qmdv]

Originally Posted by frnkeore

Give Ken a call at Quality Machine. He does high in builds.

He has a dyno to test with, too.

541 776 0692

I talked to Ken this morning at his shop. After about the second minute into it I got a really good feeling about his operation. Looking forward to this. Will give updates

[Annixter]

Originally Posted by philipswanson

Stick with Medford and assemble it yourself after getting the machine work done. That's the fun part of the hobby. You don't need a test stand if you take your time.

I second building it yourself. Modifying and building engines and transmissions are some of the most fun things about cars/trucks and bring a sense of accomplishment and pride driving down the road those who never have done it will never feel. If you know how to read a manual; follow precise directions; when to ask for advice before destroying something; use a mic, dial indicator, and torque wrench; keep the building area extremely orderly and clean; and have patience, you can build an engine. If you struggle with any of those things and aren't willing to work to progress, don't try.

Originally Posted by qmdv

Looking forward to this. Will give updates

Wait until you get the quote.

In all seriousness, I have a couple pieces of advice for choosing a machine shop and what work to have done. Some of these points seem obvious but can be overlooked.

Choosing a Shop
1) Get your physical eyes on the shop. Don't trust what someone tells you. Ask the owner to give you a tour.

• The shop should have very blatant sections (disassembly, cleaning, machining, assembling, etc.). If the shop combines any of these processes into the same area, find another shop.
• The disassembly area, while dirty, should be structured and orderly. If a shop cannot keep an orderly disassembly area, they shouldn't be trusted to keep your engine build orderly. Piles of parts, workbenches that haven't been cleaned off in weeks, etc. are red flags. There can be shelves stacked with cores, or a corner with core blocks, but they should be orderly and purposeful.
• The machines should be overall clean. Obviously, metal shavings and lubricant from the day's work is acceptable, but the machines and floor shouldn't be gunked up with grime and rusty shavings as if they aren't regularly maintained. If the shop doesn't bother to keep the machines and workspace clean, they likely don't bother to keep them dialed into precision. As the old adage goes, respect the tools and they'll serve you well.
• The assembly area should be spotless, more or less. Ideally, the shop will have a room dedicated to assembly, but this isn't always possible for smaller shops. If there isn't a dedicated room, the assembly area of the shop should be as far away from the disassembly area as possible. If you see a grinder or a wire wheel used to clean blocks within 30 feet of the assembly area, find another shop.
• The owner should be able to explain his/her reasoning behind all the processes you discuss. If he/she recommends something, it's your duty to ask for a reason and his/her duty to give you a solid one and not "that's just how we do it because that's how dad did it." Good for dad, now what's the logic behind it?
• A good shop should be willing to work within your budget, within reason. If they try to upcharge the heck out of you or explode your project's budget unnecessarily, find someone else who is actually interested in your business. Some shops can afford to turn away smaller/cheaper jobs, but the good ones want and respect all work. A good one will definitely want a flathead project since they aren't that common anymore.

Suggested Work

• Don't skimp on the hot tank or oven. Be sure the shop will pull all the plugs and brush out coolant and oil galleries.
• Have the block magnafluxed. I don't always have this done on my budget builds with post-1970 virgin blocks that don't look abused, but for a flathead I'd insist. A good shop will likely require magnafluxing on something as old as a flathead and as expensive a build.
• When discussing honing, make sure the shop torque-plate hones the block. You'll need to provide the shop with your head bolts/studs before it can be done properly. Essentially, the shop bolts a thick plate onto the block with your head bolts/studs that mimics a head being bolted to the block. Believe it or not, the block will distort some when the heads are bolted on. The machinist then hones the cylinders. This procedure ensures the bores are as true as they're going to get to where they will run. It costs extra (I think my shop charges an extra $80 for setup, and those are high Denver prices) but it is well worth it for a superior ring seal and therefore power and longevity. If the shop doesn't offer torque-plate honing, I find someone else. It's pretty much the industry standard now.
• Other than these specifics, the shop will tell you what the engine needs. If the crank and cam bores all measure within tolerance, there isn't a need to line bore. If the decks all check out, there isn't a need to deck it unless you're zero-decking for quench. If the shop wants to sell you all these things before even inspecting/measuring the block, go elsewhere since they are up-selling you.

[JSeery]

"Have the block magnafluxed. I don't always have this done on my budget builds with post-1970 virgin blocks that don't look abused, but for a flathead I'd insist. A good shop will likely require magnafluxing on something as old as a flathead and as expensive a build."

Mag testing is ok, but the block really needs to be pressure tested.

[Bored&Stroked]

And, if you are planning any sort of larger overbore, I would have the cylinder walls sonic tested in about 12 places each - so you have a very good idea as to what material you have to work with.

Not many shops will have a torque plate for a flathead - I'd consider that a luxury (given the small bore of these flatheads). If they have one - great . . . but I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

The valve work is the area where many shops struggle - in that they don't have the necessary pilots/mandrels that pickup the valve guide bore. You don't do valve seat work on a flathead with a stock valve guide and a 11/32 pilot - you should have the correct flathead specific mandrels. Also, they need to know/understand that flatheads have different valve angles bank-to-bank - this results in the valves being higher on the driver's side (to the deck). They should NEVER attempt to make the valve heights the same side-to-side . . . this is a MAJOR mistake.

Anyway, if they are experienced flathead guys . . . they should know the drill.

[Annixter]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Not many shops will have a torque plate for a flathead - I'd consider that a luxury (given the small bore of these flatheads). If they have one - great . . . but I wouldn't get too hung up on it.

If the shop doesn't have a flathead torque plate or cannot mill one up for the build, I certainly wouldn't expect them to know how to grind the valves nor trust them to do so. If they are a serious machine shop with experience building flatheads, they'll have a torque plate. If they don't and are incapable of machining one, find someone who does/can. It's not the procedure that is necessarily a make-or-break deal but the fact that with torque-plate honing being near standard in most shops nowadays and proven to be a superior method of honing, a builder without that capability is suspect in my book.

[AnthonyG]

Experience tells me stick w the reputable local machine shop that says he will! Local guy reputation means a lot & typically won’t knock ur brains in $ either!I researched for one of the “Great Known Flathead builders” & used them. Cost was insane & ended up practically rebuilding my self after bad internal issues w less than 2500 miles resulting from shitty parts builder used!

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by Annixter

If the shop doesn't have a flathead torque plate or cannot mill one up for the build, I certainly wouldn't expect them to know how to grind the valves nor trust them to do so. If they are a serious machine shop with experience building flatheads, they'll have a torque plate. If they don't and are incapable of machining one, find someone who does/can. It's not the procedure that is necessarily a make-or-break deal but the fact that with torque-plate honing being near standard in most shops nowadays and proven to be a superior method of honing, a builder without that capability is suspect in my book.

In a perfect world, I would agree (they do help pre-distort the bore similar to real heads). But, if they don't have one it is doubtful they're going to just "mill one up" for a build. Also, multiple plates are needed for stock heads/studs, versus aftermarket - or you have to have a bunch of different length 'spacers'. They won't have all the head stud locations and it takes time to setup a block in the mill with a DRO to indicate on all of them. Not a big deal, just a few more hours of time - that the customer probably isn't going to pay for. I'm trying to be a bit pragmatic here . . . that is all.

[tubman]

On an engine meant for street use with an expected life of 50,000 to 80,000 miles, I would expect any advantage in cylinder shape afforded by using a torque plate would probably be worn away by the time the rings are seated, if not shortly thereafter. I have seen enough worn cylinder bores in old engines to know that that they do not stay the same throughout their lives. I personally would not expend the extra bucks on it for a street engine. For a high-end racing unit? Maybe.

[Annixter]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

Not a big deal, just a few more hours of time - that the customer probably isn't going to pay for. I'm trying to be a bit pragmatic here . . . that is all.

As I said and to be very clear, my comment is not about torque-plate honing as a necessity as much as a gauge of the shop's expertise in flatheads. If the shop has enough experience building stock flatheads, they have built performance flatheads and will have the torque-plate tooling. If they have the tooling and I were spending $3,500+ having an engine rebuilt, the additional $80 labor for a superior hone after already spending $1,500+ on machine work is a no-brainer. I think both your and my opinions are pragmatic in their own right. The OP can weigh his options.

Originally Posted by tubman

On an engine meant for street use with an expected life of 50,000 to 80,000 miles, I would expect any advantage in cylinder shape afforded by using a torque plate would probably be worn away by the time the rings are seated, if not shortly thereafter.

Comparing the wear patterns of two dyed cylinders with 30,000 street miles--one torque-plate honed and the other not--would prove your expectation incorrect. There are plenty of such studies done in engine building journals and textbooks which is one reason why the torque-plate practice has been so widely adopted by the industry. The benefits cost around $80 more depending on the region/shop. As far as engine performance goes, $10 per cylinder is a bargain for less blow-by and therefore more power, less oil consumption, less contaminants in the oil, and less contaminates in the chambers and runners. Torque-plating isn't necessary, but your claim it has no impact on a street engine post ring seating isn't backed up by the research.

[chap52]

It is based on how much of the assembly and set-up you feel comfortable doing. Every shop will have pros and cons but it seems like the guy in Grants Pass is a major risk.
Ask the machinist how far they can take the build. If they can do internal, crank, bearing clearances and if you want even install valves(adjust), cam and lifters you are pretty much ready to bolt it together. Of course there are torque specs.. Again how much are you comfortable doing yourself?
Something to be said when she starts up and you are the one that put it together.
I know Go Cats in Colorado had mixed reviews on this forum, but he does build some sweet engines. I worked with him, Eric several years ago, slow but good.
www.GoCatSpeedshop.com
His site has audio clips with the videos of the engines running.
Enjoy the adventure... Chap

[Floyd]

Maybe I am completely out of the loop (probably so), but what about Red Hamilton in Fort Bragg. I know he sold the Reds Headers business to Jim Davis (good guy) in Palm Desert years ago, but he has (or had) his vintage parts business still running. Website is still active. As many would agree, Red knows as much about flatheads as anyone and a discussion with him about what to do should be considered. You guys are both out in the middle of nowhere in Northern California. Check his website for contact info. Red's Vintage Parts.

[TJ]

Originally Posted by Floyd

Maybe I am completely out of the loop (probably so), but what about Red Hamilton in Fort Bragg. I know he sold the Reds Headers business to Jim Davis (good guy) in Palm Desert years ago, but he has (or had) his vintage parts business still running. Website is still active. As many would agree, Red knows as much about flatheads as anyone and a discussion with him about what to do should be considered. You guys are both out in the middle of nowhere in Northern California. Check his website for contact info. Red's Vintage Parts.

Red did fine work. Not sure if he is still doing complete builds or not, but it's worth a call. He's a good honest guy.

[GOSFAST]

An excellent Flathead build would consist of the following:

1-Block plate finish hone the bores (photo below)
2-Forged pistons, moly metric rings, we use Ross here (photo below)
3-Dowel pin the block, heads, and gaskets (photo below)
4-Oil filter modification-95% (photo below)
5-Deck block for "flat" (usually less than .010")
6-Bronze-lined guides/stainless valves (photo below)
7-Original "Johnson" adjustable tappets (VT2032's) (photo below)
8-As of late we would also recommend installing 16 NEW valve seats!
9-A really good "close tolerance" balanced ass'y

There is much more but the above items are "standard" procedure here

Thanks, Gary in N.Y.

P.S. Am still keeping my posts a bit short due to some recent health issues!

[frnkeore]

Originally Posted by qmdv

I talked to Ken this morning at his shop. After about the second minute into it I got a really good feeling about his operation. Looking forward to this. Will give updates

Yes, he's a really great guy. I'm going to do some dyno work with him, if I ever get my stuff back from Keller's.

I just found him about 4 months ago, when looking for a dyno, he invited me down to the shop, to check his out, with a engine on it, we talked for a long time. He has even built and run a EMC engine.