More reproduction cr-p

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Vic Piano

KUBE, while it's true that I was born at night, it wasn't last night... I fully understood your compliant and discontent with Bob Drake though I don't condone or respect your "public castigation". I am not dismissing the alleged misrepresentation in advertising and/or in catalogs and I do agree that that should be addressed where applicable. I'm sure there are a large number of hobbyist that, like myself, have not had the same negative experience with Bob Drake that you have. I've been doing business with Bob Drake for many years and I’ve purchased parts from him for a number of our Flatheads ranging from '39 to '53 and, as I stated in an earlier post; my only angst has been with parts on "back order". Relevant to my propane gas tank situation (as it pertains to your post), I don't pay anyone working on our home in advance, especially when the work requires a permit and subsequent inspection by the County. Back to your beef with Bob Drake, it is my belief that you "get more fly’s with honey" (to use a euphemism) and I don't believe that one-sided attacks on public forums are an effective way to improve relations and/or prompt a response from a company or an individual. I would guess that someone such as yourself, (with your vast knowledge and experience with ’39 & ’40 Fords) would be up for the task of creating and possibly marketing those parts that you bring into question relevant to Bob Drake’s reproduction quality. As I also stated previously; if you should see fit to delve into the parts reproduction business and produce products to exacting Ford “specs”, I’ll be your best customer. Vic

Vic, You have made it obvious ; you don't get it...

[Vic Piano]

KUBE, with all due respect... The thing that is obvious here is that you have a problem with Bob Drake. Here is an excerpt from your original posting; Barn guys: I realize a few of you will tell me that "oh, where would we be without guys like Bob?" Well, that is NOT the point. The POINT is to either sell what you are representing a particular part to be or change the listing to (example) "kind of fits", and / or "some assembly required".
Here too is an excerpt from my previous response to you; I am not dismissing the alleged misrepresentation in advertising and/or in catalogs and I do agree that that should be addressed where applicable. That should clearly demonstrate that I do get it, I just don’t agree with your method of airing your apparent distain for Bob Drake, in a public forum. At the very least, you could demonstrate a degree of decorum when attacking under the guise of making constructive criticisms and/or suggestions. It’s that simple, nothing too difficult to comprehend, just a hard pill to swallow the way you presented your position. Just some constructive criticism, from me to you (and I hope you take it as such), in an effort that we all play nice. Vic

[Kube]

Just in case Bob isn't watching today, I sent him a private message so he does have a fair opportunity to respond to my concern as well as the concerns of many others.

[Jeff/Illinois]

Isn't it weird, how a post like this draws almost 6500 hits and counting in just a couple weeks or so?

I guess we're all closet condemers we like to secretly look and see 'who' is the one getting hammered today?

Kind of like the kids at grade school all drawing around the bike stand because 'there's gonna be a fight' and we all want to watch

[37don]

Kube, I have some of BD's parts that don't fit and a famous killer catalog sitting on my shelves in the basement. The sad thing is that BD didn't give a hoot about his catalog fiasco as stated by one of his salesmen at York several yrs ago. That was the beginning of the end for me but still bought some parts for my 37 that just didn't fit at all. Now I don't buy from him unless it is absolutely the only option. Then I just hope it fits and doesn't break ( more and more CHINA JUNK). If his stuff is the best then the bar has been set pretty low.
There I feel better already for getting that off my chest. This is just an opinion from my experience and I respect anyone who thinks he is doing a great job.
Regards, Don

[itstom]

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Bob,
I was wondering why you had chosen not to respond to any of the questions posed in this or the other very similar thread here on the Barn. I then noticed you edited your earlier response. So much in fact, that it appears nothing like the original post.
You know Bob, you should be a politician. Your edited response was perfect (as a politician) in that it never answered any of the questions raised. Many call this "damage control".
Unfortunately for you, the proverbial cat is out of the bag. There remains some of us that would like answers to the questions posed vs. just rhetoric.
Perhaps you should apply your obvious political expertise to the making and selling of quality parts. Then I am quite certain there’d be few, if any, complaints and/or disappointments in your goods and (apparent lack of) ethics.
I think it was Kube that mentioned (I am not quoting) to you that when one does not have a strong defense, the only alternative is a strong offense. While that is theoretically true, you have found yet another approach when faced with no credibility. That is, the political way out; change the subject and don’t answer the question(s).
Way to go Bob. You once again had a chance to shine and once again took the expedient and unethical way out.
Intelligent folks see what you have done. If they were on the fence as to dealing with you in the future, I have little doubt that you have now pushed them off…

[bbrocksr]

Originally Posted by itstom

Bob,
I was wondering why you had chosen not to respond to any of the questions posed in this or the other very similar thread here on the Barn. I then noticed you edited your earlier response. So much in fact, that it appears nothing like the original post.
You know Bob, you should be a politician. Your edited response was perfect (as a politician) in that it never answered any of the questions raised. Many call this "damage control".
Unfortunately for you, the proverbial cat is out of the bag. There remains some of us that would like answers to the questions posed vs. just rhetoric.
Perhaps you should apply your obvious political expertise to the making and selling of quality parts. Then I am quite certain there’d be few, if any, complaints and/or disappointments in your goods and (apparent lack of) ethics.
I think it was Kube that mentioned (I am not quoting) to you that when one does not have a strong defense, the only alternative is a strong offense. While that is theoretically true, you have found yet another approach when faced with no credibility. That is, the political way out; change the subject and don’t answer the question(s).
Way to go Bob. You once again had a chance to shine and once again took the expedient and unethical way out.
Intelligent folks see what you have done. If they were on the fence as to dealing with you in the future, I have little doubt that you have now pushed them off…

Have you actually bought something from Bob that didn't fit or are you just "piling on" with the others.
I've used a lot of Bob's stuff and was glad it was available.
Bill

[Gary in La.]

I agree with bbrocksr,I think this roast has gone on far longer than it should have. There's not a vender out there that has 100% satisfaction with their parts. I have used Drakes parts for over 30 years and have no Drastic complaints. AND no I am not building 100 point show cars. Without Bob and the others we would have one hell of a time completeing our old Fords. It appears there are too many agreeing to jump on the bandwagon just to be heard. Kube made his point but I think it's now been overworked.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Gary in La.

I agree with bbrocksr,I think this roast has gone on far longer than it should have. There's not a vender out there that has 100% satisfaction with their parts. I have used Drakes parts for over 30 years and have no Drastic complaints. AND no I am not building 100 point show cars. Without Bob and the others we would have one hell of a time completeing our old Fords. It appears there are too many agreeing to jump on the bandwagon just to be heard. Kube made his point but I think it's now been overworked.

While I respect your opinion, it appears this subject is not over. If it is for you, then move on as you are so able to do. There apparently remains a number of us who are not satisfied with Bob's lack of a forthright response.
Maybe the parts and service are satisfactory to you. That's great. How about those that are not satisfied? Are we not due an answer?
Personally I think this thread is over only when we get answers vs. BS.
And yes, I have tried the direct approach. I got what "ITSTOM" called something to the effect of political rhetoric.
And, once again, for those that still don't quite seem to grasp what this is truly about: this has nothing to do with show cars or the availability of parts... it has everything to do with honest descriptions and when something is wrong, taking care of it in an ethical way.

[V8COOPMAN]

The GENERAL intent of my inquiry as to "where THE Bob may be", especially with relevance to answering SOME of the nitty-gritty questions posed within the thread, essentially went un-answered or acknowledged by Bob. The REAL essence of my question was my need to understand the "good-will" intended by, and promotional benefit realized by a long-established "leader" in the old Ford parts reproduction business that seems to believe it ETHICAL and MORALLY right to require ANY dissatisfied customer to pay return shipping for any part UNSATISFACTORY to a paying customer, ESPECIALLY WHEN the part in question DOES NOT FIT as advertised or IMPLIED by a fancy, "well-worded" catalog. My thought WAS (used to be) that THE Bob's nice, happy words AND the nice, "good-guy" smile meant that customer satisfaction was first and foremost on his mind. Seems like my faith in a giant, once again in this sometimes-disappointing life, has me wondering what ever happened to ETHICS among men and friends. DD

[Kube]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

The GENERAL intent of my inquiry as to "where THE Bob may be", especially with relevance to answering SOME of the nitty-gritty questions posed within the thread, essentially went un-answered or acknowledged by Bob. The REAL essence of my question was my need to understand the "good-will" intended by, and promotional benefit realized by a long-established "leader" in the old Ford parts reproduction business that seems to believe it ETHICAL and MORALLY right to require ANY dissatisfied customer to pay return shipping for any part UNSATISFACTORY to a paying customer, ESPECIALLY WHEN the part in question DOES NOT FIT as advertised or IMPLIED by a fancy, "well-worded" catalog. My thought WAS (used to be) that THE Bob's nice, happy words AND the nice, "good-guy" smile meant that customer satisfaction was first and foremost on his mind. Seems like my faith in a giant, once again in this sometimes-disappointing life, has me wondering what ever happened to ETHICS among men and friends. DD

V8COOPMAN, Ethics do remain amongst real men and real friends.

[oldford2]

Kube,

Well, I think we all get your point and time for you to take your issue out of the public forum and get on the phone and talk to BD directly. I am sure that if you call him you can get thru.
Again, we got your point, the horse is dead so you can stop beating it.
John

"Stubborness is the sign of a closed mind"
Ben Franklin

[Chris/Mass]

"When I looked at the tapes, I remember how thin I looked. At the time, I was always saying, " I need to lose weight', ' I need to lose 10 pounds'."
B(onnie) Franklin

[Kube]

[QUOTE=oldford2;465916]Kube,

Well, I think we all get your point and time for you to take your issue out of the public forum and get on the phone and talk to BD directly. I am sure that if you call him you can get thru.
Again, we got your point, the horse is dead so you can stop beating it.
John
Did you miss the "I tried the direct approach"?

[Vic Piano]

KUBE, while it may not have any relevance, I agree with John. I think you're beating a "dead horse" but, just for the sake of putting things in perspective, you've continually made reference to all the "high point" restorations you've produced (and, from the photos I've seen, they are indeed beautiful cars). I wonder how many of them were awarded those "high points" while sportin' Bob Drake parts? One also has to wonder if the basis for your continued attacks on BD isn't more deeply rooted then some ill fitting floorboard gaskets, or his apparent lack (as you have indicated) of (what you would deem) an expectable response to address your dissatisfaction.
I respectfully suggest that it is time to lay the "dead horse" to rest.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Vic Piano

KUBE, while it may not have any relevance, I agree with John. I think you're beating a "dead horse" but, just for the sake of putting things in perspective, you've continually made reference to all the "high point" restorations you've produced (and, from the photos I've seen, they are indeed beautiful cars). I wonder how many of them were awarded those "high points" while sportin' Bob Drake parts? One also has to wonder if the basis for your continued attacks on BD isn't more deeply rooted then some ill fitting floorboard gaskets, or his apparent lack (as you have indicated) of (what you would deem) an expectable response to address your dissatisfaction.
I respectfully suggest that it is time to lay the "dead horse" to rest.

1) That coupe you see in my avatar has no repro parts on it other than wiring (I fear NOS wiring) and rubber. Same with that convertible some saw. Same with nearly every car I restore. I tend to shy away from repro parts when possible.
2) What "I" would deem an acceptable response? I would simply like to see the man answer the questions that not only I, but others, have raised. You say "attack" - I say "inquiry." It has apparently struck a number of folks (not just "I") "odd" that he has not answered the questions but chose at best to attempt to squirm around them and / or change the subject.
Personally? I am about done. He (Bob) has shown his true colors. He has had numerous chances to shine and has shown himself to be what he truly is.
Akin to the proverbial big kid on the block, when someone stood up to him, he chose to run and hide.
3) Dead horse? You have the choice to NOT look at this thread. Like I have chosen not to see how many times it rains in your area. At least this thread could have done many of us in this hobby some good if Bob chose to go that route.
Perhaps other suppliers have watched this and if need be, have tweaked their policies? Just a thought.

[Vic Piano]

Funny you should mention the rain (how did you know if you don't read my post?). Just for the record, I too would like to use NOS parts (I agree that NOS wiring is not a good choice). I've not found NOS rubber parts to be particularly well suited to be put into service on a vehicle some 50 to 70 years after being produced so, I do use reproduction rubber parts from BD, DC and others on our cars & trucks.
I tend to doubt that your continued tirade against BD will serve to avert too many of us from continuing to do business with him, I also doubt that others in the business of reproduction Ford parts will be compelled to alter their business model based on your observations. For those that would follow your lead I say good luck and enjoy the hunt for NOS parts.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Vic Piano

Funny you should mention the rain (how did you know if you don't read my post?). Just for the record, I too would like to use NOS parts (I agree that NOS wiring is not a good choice). I've not found NOS rubber parts to be particularly well suited to be put into service on a vehicle some 50 to 70 years after being produced so, I do use reproduction rubber parts from BD, DC and others on our cars & trucks.
I tend to doubt that your continued tirade against BD will serve to avert too many of us from continuing to do business with him, I also doubt that others in the business of reproduction Ford parts will be compelled to alter their business model based on your observations. For those that would follow your lead I say good luck and enjoy the hunt for NOS parts.

I do read your posts on occasion - for the amusement... certainly not in any attempt to learn anything in regard to our hobby.
I have a tendency to agree with you that other companies will most likely not change their ways of doing business. Fortunately most do a better job as it is.
I also tend to agree with you that many will not be diverted from the likes of Drake from mine (and others ) observations / experiences with his company.
Simply put, many folks are comfortable with parts, being advertised as something other than what they truly are, And, sold less then they had been offered and unfortunately being treated poorly when something has truly gone amiss.
I will stay the course on my personal and business "paths". I'd rather make a little less profit and be thought well of.

[Vic Piano]

Kube, I'm elated to know that I keep you amused with my postings, (now I’ll sleep much better) after all, that is what they are for, to amuse, entertain and hopefully provide some insight relevant to "messin' with Flatheads", through our weekly trials & errors (and let's not forget Pizza). It’s obvious that you haven't noticed that I don't really take myself too seriously in my postings, and sometimes it appears my intended sarcasm is apparently lost to you. To be sure, I never professed to be a teacher or possessor of illusive (or even common) knowledge, relevant to the hobby that surpasses or even comes close to that of anyone else. I'm simply here for the enjoyment. I'm not looking to change the way business or people do things, castigate those that don’t share my opinion or blindly follow me down the restoration trail… I’m merely looking the share my Flathead related adventures with likeminded individuals and I can only hope that they garner the same amusement from my posts as you do. Thanks for tuning in.

[Ronnie]

No winners with this post.