The Ford Barn

art ebeling · 05-31-2015, 04:35 PM

Today I put the engine and trans in my 31 chassis and could not get the ujoint housings to bolt together. I tried to draw them together by tightening the bolts knowing quite well the bolts should not have been that hard to tighten. I heard a sickening snap and found I had broken the rear trans brg snap ring and the rear of the trans case that holds the snapring and they were laying inside the trans. It seems the end of the driveshaft is pressing against the head of the ujoint nut. That is just a guess. What would cause this? Also, anyone have a trans case fo sale?

redmodelt · 05-31-2015, 06:16 PM

Was the engine mounted or still at an angle on the cherry picker? Did you have the bowl installed? Sounds like you didn't because that is the only way the drive shaft could go too far in, even then I am not sure if it could go in as far as you might be thinking. If you forgot the bowl then it could have been pressing on the ujoint too hard.

art ebeling · 05-31-2015, 06:21 PM

Had engine at an angle with cherry to match the driveshaftand had inner housing with paper gaskets installed. Could not draw it all together. ???

portside · 05-31-2015, 06:23 PM

I left a socket wrench inside of the ujoint and put it together. It did ruin the bearings after a while but nothing broke. You might check and see if it happened to you.

Mitch//pa · 05-31-2015, 08:41 PM

Was the bell on the torque tube seated against u joint housing cover? Once that's firmly in place the clam shell should bolt on smooth

art ebeling · 05-31-2015, 09:01 PM

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No, the bell on the torque tube would not seat against the u joint inner cover, about 1/8 th inch away, so I decided to draw it in with my superhuman strength by tightening the outer cover bolts to draw it together. That was a disaster. I thought about leaving the lockwasher off of the ujoint bolt but that wouldnt be correct according to all I have read.

Mitch//pa · 05-31-2015, 09:09 PM

Gotcha hard to say But that sure sucks big time
Maybe install the trans first next time then the motor....

art ebeling · 05-31-2015, 09:47 PM

Here are some pics of broken case, ujoint, clutch, etc.

Mitch//pa · 05-31-2015, 11:22 PM

What is smeared all over the u joint in pic 3 looks like Vaseline?

Mitch//pa · 05-31-2015, 11:33 PM

Why was the motor and trans out? What exactly was done?

art ebeling · 05-31-2015, 11:33 PM

synthetic grease, its almost clear

Tom Wesenberg · 06-01-2015, 12:23 AM

I don't see the oil shield for the rear bearing. There should also be one for the front tranny bearing. These must be used whether of not you use a sealed bearing, as they act as spacers.

I'm still trying to figure out what caused the bearing to push forward and snap off the ring retainer, but this is a valuable lesson to not use too much force when things don't go together. Was the thick washer correctly seated with the upset in the groove of the output shaft?

Same as Mitch, I'm wondering why it was out and what was done? Was an overdrive installed?

art ebeling · 06-01-2015, 03:06 AM

The washèr with the tab was seated on the ujoint. I bought the car as an unfinished project. The engine had been rebuilt with all the modern touring mods, chassis and suspension finished, trans rebuilt with new bearings, all topnotch work done by the previous owner who spared no expense and has three other finished model a's. I don't see how the ujoint could be any further forward without contacting the four bolts holding the rear retainer.

harleytoprock · 06-01-2015, 05:24 AM

pm sent

art ebeling · 06-01-2015, 09:09 AM

Here is a pic before installation.

Mitch//pa · 06-01-2015, 09:46 AM

I don't know man,,
Make sure the u joint slides onto the drive shaft splines all the way...

Tom Wesenberg · 06-01-2015, 10:17 AM

I'm looking at Bratton's 2014 catalog on page 47, which shows an exploded view of the tranny. See the two oil baffles #41 and #7. Your rear baffle seems to be missing and I wonder if it was in place if this break could have been prevented? You don't show the front bearing, but make sure it also has the baffle, as these two baffles also act as spacers as well as oil slingers.

I have a spare rear end assembly and can measure the distance from the end of the bell to the end of the driveshaft, if that would help. Maybe Tom Endy know this distance.

art ebeling · 06-01-2015, 10:27 AM

Thanks, I would like to know that measurement. You guys are great. The forum is a valuable tool.

larrys40 · 06-01-2015, 11:05 AM

Art,

I agree with Tom that the baffle should be in there. If you need a transmission case I have lots of them and am down in St. Louis area fairly close to you. It was fixing to be a real "leaker" without the baffle. I would also look at the U-joint as the U -joint splined collar's on either end could have been too long. I have ran into some older NORS U-joints that had too long of a hub portion and actually tightened up on the bearing and the end that went to the driveshaft seemed long as well. Maybe were for some other application not sure. I had these in my stock pulling a U-joint last fall for a trans job I did on a flathead V8.. and remember, the U-joints are the same through '48. I of course did not use them.

Being it was a variety of parts you never know. The torque tube bell should come up smooth to the inner cap... if not there is something wrong. Outer clam shells should bolt up smoothly. I would say the previous assembly work is questionable being that the baffle was not used.

Also, make sure all of your speedo drive items and the split ring is in the slot on the driveshaft and not too forward. One more thing... it's hard to see from the photos but the trans top bolt holes seem to have stuff in them and the 1st/reverse slider seems to maybe have some pitting/galling on it. Hard to tell but just bringing it up.

Larry Shepard

Tom Wesenberg · 06-01-2015, 11:49 AM

I also noticed something in the top cover bolt holes, like Larry mentioned.

I just uncovered the rear end I brought home a couple weeks ago. It has the complete inner and outer shells bolted onto the driveshaft bell, and the bolts are rusty, so it will take some soaking and wrenching to remove it. I did take a measurement from the very inner edge of the bell to the end of the driveshaft, and I got 1.326", so this should help get you in the ball park.

05-31-2015, 04:35 PM	#1
art ebeling Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Hillsboro IL Posts: 479	U joint housing Today I put the engine and trans in my 31 chassis and could not get the ujoint housings to bolt together. I tried to draw them together by tightening the bolts knowing quite well the bolts should not have been that hard to tighten. I heard a sickening snap and found I had broken the rear trans brg snap ring and the rear of the trans case that holds the snapring and they were laying inside the trans. It seems the end of the driveshaft is pressing against the head of the ujoint nut. That is just a guess. What would cause this? Also, anyone have a trans case fo sale?

05-31-2015, 06:16 PM	#2
redmodelt Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland OR Posts: 6,342	Re: U joint housing Was the engine mounted or still at an angle on the cherry picker? Did you have the bowl installed? Sounds like you didn't because that is the only way the drive shaft could go too far in, even then I am not sure if it could go in as far as you might be thinking. If you forgot the bowl then it could have been pressing on the ujoint too hard.

05-31-2015, 06:21 PM	#3
art ebeling Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Hillsboro IL Posts: 479	Re: U joint housing Had engine at an angle with cherry to match the driveshaftand had inner housing with paper gaskets installed. Could not draw it all together. ???

05-31-2015, 08:41 PM	#5
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: U joint housing Was the bell on the torque tube seated against u joint housing cover? Once that's firmly in place the clam shell should bolt on smooth

05-31-2015, 09:01 PM	#6
art ebeling Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Hillsboro IL Posts: 479	Re: U joint housing Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) No, the bell on the torque tube would not seat against the u joint inner cover, about 1/8 th inch away, so I decided to draw it in with my superhuman strength by tightening the outer cover bolts to draw it together. That was a disaster. I thought about leaving the lockwasher off of the ujoint bolt but that wouldnt be correct according to all I have read.

05-31-2015, 06:23 PM	#4
portside Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 43	Re: U joint housing I left a socket wrench inside of the ujoint and put it together. It did ruin the bearings after a while but nothing broke. You might check and see if it happened to you.

05-31-2015, 09:09 PM	#7
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: U joint housing Gotcha hard to say But that sure sucks big time Maybe install the trans first next time then the motor....

05-31-2015, 11:22 PM	#9
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: U joint housing What is smeared all over the u joint in pic 3 looks like Vaseline?

05-31-2015, 11:33 PM	#10
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: U joint housing Why was the motor and trans out? What exactly was done?

05-31-2015, 11:33 PM	#11
art ebeling Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Hillsboro IL Posts: 479	Re: U joint housing synthetic grease, its almost clear

06-01-2015, 12:23 AM	#12
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: U joint housing I don't see the oil shield for the rear bearing. There should also be one for the front tranny bearing. These must be used whether of not you use a sealed bearing, as they act as spacers. I'm still trying to figure out what caused the bearing to push forward and snap off the ring retainer, but this is a valuable lesson to not use too much force when things don't go together. Was the thick washer correctly seated with the upset in the groove of the output shaft? Same as Mitch, I'm wondering why it was out and what was done? Was an overdrive installed?

06-01-2015, 03:06 AM	#13
art ebeling Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Hillsboro IL Posts: 479	Re: U joint housing The washèr with the tab was seated on the ujoint. I bought the car as an unfinished project. The engine had been rebuilt with all the modern touring mods, chassis and suspension finished, trans rebuilt with new bearings, all topnotch work done by the previous owner who spared no expense and has three other finished model a's. I don't see how the ujoint could be any further forward without contacting the four bolts holding the rear retainer.

06-01-2015, 05:24 AM	#14
harleytoprock Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 438	Re: U joint housing pm sent

06-01-2015, 09:46 AM	#16
Mitch//pa BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: Bucks County, PA Posts: 11,454	Re: U joint housing I don't know man,, Make sure the u joint slides onto the drive shaft splines all the way...

06-01-2015, 10:17 AM	#17
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: U joint housing I'm looking at Bratton's 2014 catalog on page 47, which shows an exploded view of the tranny. See the two oil baffles #41 and #7. Your rear baffle seems to be missing and I wonder if it was in place if this break could have been prevented? You don't show the front bearing, but make sure it also has the baffle, as these two baffles also act as spacers as well as oil slingers. I have a spare rear end assembly and can measure the distance from the end of the bell to the end of the driveshaft, if that would help. Maybe Tom Endy know this distance.

06-01-2015, 10:27 AM	#18
art ebeling Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Hillsboro IL Posts: 479	Re: U joint housing Thanks, I would like to know that measurement. You guys are great. The forum is a valuable tool.

06-01-2015, 11:05 AM	#19
larrys40 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: St Charles , Missouri Posts: 1,998	Re: U joint housing Art, I agree with Tom that the baffle should be in there. If you need a transmission case I have lots of them and am down in St. Louis area fairly close to you. It was fixing to be a real "leaker" without the baffle. I would also look at the U-joint as the U -joint splined collar's on either end could have been too long. I have ran into some older NORS U-joints that had too long of a hub portion and actually tightened up on the bearing and the end that went to the driveshaft seemed long as well. Maybe were for some other application not sure. I had these in my stock pulling a U-joint last fall for a trans job I did on a flathead V8.. and remember, the U-joints are the same through '48. I of course did not use them. Being it was a variety of parts you never know. The torque tube bell should come up smooth to the inner cap... if not there is something wrong. Outer clam shells should bolt up smoothly. I would say the previous assembly work is questionable being that the baffle was not used. Also, make sure all of your speedo drive items and the split ring is in the slot on the driveshaft and not too forward. One more thing... it's hard to see from the photos but the trans top bolt holes seem to have stuff in them and the 1st/reverse slider seems to maybe have some pitting/galling on it. Hard to tell but just bringing it up. Larry Shepard Last edited by larrys40; 06-01-2015 at 11:13 AM.

06-01-2015, 11:49 AM	#20
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: U joint housing I also noticed something in the top cover bolt holes, like Larry mentioned. I just uncovered the rear end I brought home a couple weeks ago. It has the complete inner and outer shells bolted onto the driveshaft bell, and the bolts are rusty, so it will take some soaking and wrenching to remove it. I did take a measurement from the very inner edge of the bell to the end of the driveshaft, and I got 1.326", so this should help get you in the ball park.