The Ford Barn

flatjack9 · 03-13-2021, 11:34 PM

Your car was positive ground originally.

benbuilder · 03-14-2021, 04:21 AM

Thanks for staying with me.

I want to put in my model a that has a 350 in it now. The model A is currently a 12v negative ground. So if i am starting over now, i should go to 12v negative ground on the flathead.

The previous owner, one who seemed to have more experience than me, said i could run it with the 12v battery to do the tune up with no problems. He said that is why two wires were off the generator.

I have no idea what has been done to the car electrically. It does look like not much has changed. All i know is I saw him install a modern truck battery with a negative ground, he cleaned the points and it fired enough to get it on the trailer.

any help is appreciated.

JSeery · 03-14-2021, 11:33 AM

It makes a difference if you are taking the whole car being converted to 12v, or just the engine. Sounds like you are interested in just the engine. The starter will work on 12v and is not sensitive to polarity (as you can already tell).

The coil needs to have the polarity correct, easy to fix, just switch the wires. For negative ground it would be ignition wire to the + or Bat terminal and the wire to the distributor/condenser would be the - or Dist terminal. Assuming it is a 6v coil, it needs an added ballast resistor or replaced with a 12v coil. You can figure it out by checking the resistance between the two terminals. A 6v coil would be around 1.5 ohms and a 12v coil would be around 3.0 ohms. If an ~1.5 ohm coil it needs an ~1.5 ohm ballast resistor. For 12v you need around 3.0 ohm resistance in the ignition circuit.

No idea on the generator, never heard of removing the wires to get it to work. But eventually you will need a 12v generator.

The distributor should be fine on 12v. You will need 12v set of senders for the temp and oil pressure to match whichever gauges you use, or use mechanical gauges.

benbuilder · 03-14-2021, 11:52 AM

The coil needs to have the polarity correct, easy to fix, just switch the wires. For negative ground it would be ignition wire to the + or Bat terminal and the wire to the distributor/condenser would be the - or Dist terminal.
Assuming it is a 6v coil, it needs an added ballast resistor or replaced with a 12v coil.
I WILL CHANGE IT TO A 12 VOLT COIL, I MAY HAVE DAMAGED THE ONE IN THERE ALREADY-I DONT KNOW.

You can figure it out by checking the resistance between the two terminals. A 6v coil would be around 1.5 ohms and a 12v coil would be around 3.0 ohms. If an ~1.5 ohm coil it needs an ~1.5 ohm ballast resistor. For 12v you need around 3.0 ohm resistance in the ignition circuit.
SO WITH THE 12 VOLT COIL I WILL NEED TO ADD THIS? AND ONE WIRE GOES TO POSITIVE SIDE OF COIL? THE OTHER GOES TO IGNITION ON WIRE?

flatjack9 · 03-14-2021, 11:57 AM

If your coil has 3.5 ohms or so on the primary terminals, you do not need to add a resistor. On a negative ground system, the negative terminal on the coil connects to the distributor.

benbuilder · 03-14-2021, 01:19 PM

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I have a bunch of coils from 1973-1979 ford trucks. They are 1.6 +/- ohms. I just checked.

so to use them, i need the resistor i pictured above, right? Except a 1.5 ohm resistor, not a 3.0.

Am i right?

flatjack9 · 03-14-2021, 02:07 PM

Right

benbuilder · 03-14-2021, 02:52 PM

Am i correct that the generator will not work with this set up?

flatjack9 · 03-14-2021, 03:18 PM

The generator is capable of putting out 12 volts, but not as efficiently as a 12v generator would work.

tubman · 03-14-2021, 05:20 PM

I think disconnecting the generator is merely to get it out of the electrical system so the engine will run (temporarily) on 12 volts with no regard for polarity. The coil, condenser, and points are now all suspect because of this ploy.

If you're going this way, get a proper 12V coil, wire it with the proper polarity and go from there. Keep the charging system out of the equation.

benbuilder · 03-15-2021, 04:52 AM

i have a 12 v coil from a 73-79 ford truck, and a 1.5 ohm resister on the way to me today.
then i will get it hooked up and se what i have.
Thanks

JSeery · 03-15-2021, 05:02 PM

Sounds good for a start. If your putting it in the Model A, you will want a new generator (or alternator) for that setup.

benbuilder · 03-19-2021, 03:54 PM

Thanks guys.

I installed a 1.5 v coil, and a 1.5 ohm resistor as you told me to. I connected all the wires correctly. I installed NOS coil, points (adjusted to 0.015) and rotor. I had rebuilt the carb. I made sure the carb spit fuel when accelerated.

I tried to start it but no go. I noticed fuel leaking out of the top joint of the carb so i that it might be flooding. So I pushed the pedal to the floor and then cranked the key and it started. I had to adjust the idle screw to keep it going.

I was pretty happy. I know it sounds like nothing to you guys, but to me, its a lot.

The carb has a brand new gasket that is tight, could the float be not correct and thats why its coming out the joint?

Zeke3 · 03-19-2021, 04:35 PM

Congratulations on getting the engine running. If you are still having fuel leaking from the carburetor gasket above the float chamber, there must be a defect in the gasket, but the fuel shouldn't be that high either. Reasons for excessive fuel level could be: stuck or defective needle and seat, incorrectly set float level or float that has fuel in it and is not floating properly any longer.

benbuilder · 03-19-2021, 06:09 PM

I put in the new needle and seat. I turned the carb over prior to install and blew into the fuel line, no air came out. I then put in correct position and blew in the line and air came out. So i can assume the seat and needle are fine? Maybe i need to adjust the float. The float did not have any hoes in it when i checked it out.

The car ran fine and idled fine but was leaking. So i will check the float and if that does not do it, i guess i need a new gasket.

Frank Miller · 03-20-2021, 07:11 AM

Sometimes the top of the carb is warped also. I have never done it but if you get a spare plug for the access hole for the jets you could drill it and solder a small tube and put a clear plastic hose on it to see what the float level is while running.

Ken Henry · 03-20-2021, 07:31 AM

Could be too much fuel pressure. What pump? Or if there is crud in the gas it can interfere with the inlet valve seating

benbuilder · 03-20-2021, 09:38 AM

original mechanical fuel pump. I am running off a clean orange juice container with a clear see thru filter that was in the car, that i cleaned when i got the car

Thanks

benbuilder · 03-21-2021, 04:30 AM

I started the car fresh yesterday and watched the leak develop. It came from the fuel line fitting where it screws into the carb. I found a gasket leftover from the carb kit and installed it. All set.

Thanks so much for the help.

I met a guy selling flathead parts yesterday who had the spark plug wire harness for this engine. Turns out he is a flathead guru. He knows everything. He rebuilds starters and generators. So i asked him to convert my generator to 12 volt.

benbuilder · 03-21-2021, 08:27 AM

Solved the problem. i let it sit overnight thinking and waiting for you guys to tell me my next move. This morning i started it after sitting all night and watched the leak start. I noticed it coming form the fuel line fitting where it enters the carb. i installed an extra gasket from the carb rebuild kit and it solved the problem.

Thanks for all the help.

I met a local guy buying a spark plug wire clamp for this engine. Turns out he is a guru with flatheads. I did not want to ask him for help because i dont want him to know i am not very experienced. He is going to convert my generator to 12 volts. Does it all the time he said.

03-13-2021, 11:34 PM	#21
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,527	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Your car was positive ground originally.

03-14-2021, 04:21 AM	#22
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Thanks for staying with me. I want to put in my model a that has a 350 in it now. The model A is currently a 12v negative ground. So if i am starting over now, i should go to 12v negative ground on the flathead. The previous owner, one who seemed to have more experience than me, said i could run it with the 12v battery to do the tune up with no problems. He said that is why two wires were off the generator. I have no idea what has been done to the car electrically. It does look like not much has changed. All i know is I saw him install a modern truck battery with a negative ground, he cleaned the points and it fired enough to get it on the trailer. any help is appreciated.

03-14-2021, 11:33 AM	#23
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running It makes a difference if you are taking the whole car being converted to 12v, or just the engine. Sounds like you are interested in just the engine. The starter will work on 12v and is not sensitive to polarity (as you can already tell). The coil needs to have the polarity correct, easy to fix, just switch the wires. For negative ground it would be ignition wire to the + or Bat terminal and the wire to the distributor/condenser would be the - or Dist terminal. Assuming it is a 6v coil, it needs an added ballast resistor or replaced with a 12v coil. You can figure it out by checking the resistance between the two terminals. A 6v coil would be around 1.5 ohms and a 12v coil would be around 3.0 ohms. If an ~1.5 ohm coil it needs an ~1.5 ohm ballast resistor. For 12v you need around 3.0 ohm resistance in the ignition circuit. No idea on the generator, never heard of removing the wires to get it to work. But eventually you will need a 12v generator. The distributor should be fine on 12v. You will need 12v set of senders for the temp and oil pressure to match whichever gauges you use, or use mechanical gauges.

03-14-2021, 11:57 AM	#25
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,527	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running If your coil has 3.5 ohms or so on the primary terminals, you do not need to add a resistor. On a negative ground system, the negative terminal on the coil connects to the distributor.

03-14-2021, 01:19 PM	#26
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I have a bunch of coils from 1973-1979 ford trucks. They are 1.6 +/- ohms. I just checked. so to use them, i need the resistor i pictured above, right? Except a 1.5 ohm resistor, not a 3.0. Am i right?

03-14-2021, 02:07 PM	#27
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,527	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Right

03-14-2021, 02:52 PM	#28
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Am i correct that the generator will not work with this set up?

03-14-2021, 03:18 PM	#29
flatjack9 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Oshkosh, Wi Posts: 4,527	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running The generator is capable of putting out 12 volts, but not as efficiently as a 12v generator would work.

03-14-2021, 05:20 PM	#30
tubman Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Minnesota, Florida Keys Posts: 10,319	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running I think disconnecting the generator is merely to get it out of the electrical system so the engine will run (temporarily) on 12 volts with no regard for polarity. The coil, condenser, and points are now all suspect because of this ploy. If you're going this way, get a proper 12V coil, wire it with the proper polarity and go from there. Keep the charging system out of the equation.

03-15-2021, 04:52 AM	#31
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running i have a 12 v coil from a 73-79 ford truck, and a 1.5 ohm resister on the way to me today. then i will get it hooked up and se what i have. Thanks

03-15-2021, 05:02 PM	#32
JSeery Member Emeritus Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 16,132	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Sounds good for a start. If your putting it in the Model A, you will want a new generator (or alternator) for that setup.

03-19-2021, 03:54 PM	#33
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Thanks guys. I installed a 1.5 v coil, and a 1.5 ohm resistor as you told me to. I connected all the wires correctly. I installed NOS coil, points (adjusted to 0.015) and rotor. I had rebuilt the carb. I made sure the carb spit fuel when accelerated. I tried to start it but no go. I noticed fuel leaking out of the top joint of the carb so i that it might be flooding. So I pushed the pedal to the floor and then cranked the key and it started. I had to adjust the idle screw to keep it going. I was pretty happy. I know it sounds like nothing to you guys, but to me, its a lot. The carb has a brand new gasket that is tight, could the float be not correct and thats why its coming out the joint?

03-19-2021, 04:35 PM	#34
Zeke3 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Columbus, IN Posts: 1,407	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Congratulations on getting the engine running. If you are still having fuel leaking from the carburetor gasket above the float chamber, there must be a defect in the gasket, but the fuel shouldn't be that high either. Reasons for excessive fuel level could be: stuck or defective needle and seat, incorrectly set float level or float that has fuel in it and is not floating properly any longer.

03-19-2021, 06:09 PM	#35
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running I put in the new needle and seat. I turned the carb over prior to install and blew into the fuel line, no air came out. I then put in correct position and blew in the line and air came out. So i can assume the seat and needle are fine? Maybe i need to adjust the float. The float did not have any hoes in it when i checked it out. The car ran fine and idled fine but was leaking. So i will check the float and if that does not do it, i guess i need a new gasket.

03-20-2021, 07:11 AM	#36
Frank Miller Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Auburn, MA Posts: 2,106	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Sometimes the top of the carb is warped also. I have never done it but if you get a spare plug for the access hole for the jets you could drill it and solder a small tube and put a clear plastic hose on it to see what the float level is while running. __________________ “The technique of infamy is to start two lies at once and get people arguing heatedly over which is true.” ~ Ezra Pound

03-20-2021, 07:31 AM	#37
Ken Henry Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 266	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Could be too much fuel pressure. What pump? Or if there is crud in the gas it can interfere with the inlet valve seating

03-20-2021, 09:38 AM	#38
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running original mechanical fuel pump. I am running off a clean orange juice container with a clear see thru filter that was in the car, that i cleaned when i got the car Thanks

03-21-2021, 04:30 AM	#39
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running I started the car fresh yesterday and watched the leak develop. It came from the fuel line fitting where it screws into the carb. I found a gasket leftover from the carb kit and installed it. All set. Thanks so much for the help. I met a guy selling flathead parts yesterday who had the spark plug wire harness for this engine. Turns out he is a flathead guru. He knows everything. He rebuilds starters and generators. So i asked him to convert my generator to 12 volt.

03-21-2021, 08:27 AM	#40
benbuilder Member Join Date: May 2020 Posts: 53	Re: 1952 8Ba flathead wot stay running Solved the problem. i let it sit overnight thinking and waiting for you guys to tell me my next move. This morning i started it after sitting all night and watched the leak start. I noticed it coming form the fuel line fitting where it enters the carb. i installed an extra gasket from the carb rebuild kit and it solved the problem. Thanks for all the help. I met a local guy buying a spark plug wire clamp for this engine. Turns out he is a guru with flatheads. I did not want to ask him for help because i dont want him to know i am not very experienced. He is going to convert my generator to 12 volts. Does it all the time he said.