31 AA rescue

[trevorsworth]

Hey guys! I just picked up a stock AA that I intend to leave as stock as practical while still being able to use it to run around town and do some work. I have a little bit of experience around Model As, and currently have a T-bodied A, but the big truck is new to me.

I don't have any information on its past but I'm guessing it was a wrecker. The truck looks like it got a light restoration at some point but hasn't been monkeyed with all that much or worked to death like a lot of them. The chassis is nice and tight, kingpins aren't loose or anything, the truck rolls, stops and steers fine. The only real rust is at the bottom of the cab back and a little in the corners, nothing I can't handle. It's going to need wood... looks like I'll need to come up with like 800 bucks for that.

If the banger runs it's staying in the truck... if it doesn't I'm probably not going to chase down another banger. Has anyone put a flathead V8 in an AA? I can't see as to why it would be much different from putting one in an A. I have an 8RT with a truck trans out of a '49 F6 that would be perfect in this truck.

Is there a good source for AA-specific service parts? Mainly the brakes? Nothing is missing that I can see but I'm sure I will need to go through everything and might as well put new brake shoes on while I'm cleaning it up. I see brake linings but I've always just replaced the whole shoe. Not that I'm opposed to learning, but if I can just get new shoes for the same money, I'll do that.

I attached some pictures and here's a walkaround video... don't know if it will embed. Check out that monster of a front bumper!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoTqHrRL5yE

Is there anything a guy diving into an AA for the first time really ought to know? By the way, I gave $4500 for the truck as it sits and I feel like I got a pretty good deal.

Thanks for the help...

[Gary WA]

Nice Save!!

[Joe K]

The Borg-Warner rear (yours) came in two varieties - High speed (preferred) and Low speed. There may be an aluminum tag attached at the casing halves which can tell you the gear ratio. The tag is described in the Service Bulletins.

I have seen but one low speed version - which is currently on Facebook Marketplace locally. He has $300 for it - not complete (missing the driveshaft, torque tube and radius rods) and its been sitting for a while. I think most B-W axles you see are high speed.

Do you have anything between the BW four speed and the crossmember which the rear axle pushes against? Usually a "connector shaft" of some sort. Possibly a dual high from the earlier AA production/use. Infrequently a Warford three speed - one of which is an overdrive. And I believe Ruckstell made a unit for this use too.

You'll want to take a look at the Ford "Green Book" which describes in some detail the available parts for your truck. An AMAZING amount of later production continues the 1-1/2 ton components. Green books show up on Ebay frequently. Sometimes at considerable price - but shop around. There is a CD available too. Below what is on Amazon. I paid half of that on Ebay.





Good luck! Looks like fun. Just don't be in a hurry!


Joe K

[Bob C]

Nice looking truck. Might want to check out the AA site.
http://forums.aa-fords.com/

[Joe K]

When you get a chance, check out your 4-speed for a possible "crack" failure. Vince Falter at his most excellent Fordgarage.com site addresses a crack modus which occurs due to mis-positioning of internal components. See https://www.fordgarage.com/pages/aatranscracks.htm

Another common cause of a crack is the classic "smile crack" which is caused by water getting in through the top of the transmission. Unlike the Model A gearshift lever, the AA lever does not "shed" water. Instead, the water follows down along the shaft, bypasses the ball, and keeps going to accumulation in the bottom of the tranny.

This can build up and freeze. And the crack is on the "front" edge of the transmission case just ahead of the drain plug. It encircles completely from one side to the other - hence the "smile."

I had an AA truck I took out from under a barn in Amherst, NH. The barn was not exactly "hermetic" a cover. Truck had the 82A square body but the fabric roof had rotted out, and the former owner for some reason had removed the top of the transmission. I saved all the gears and internals but the case was junk.

Again, good luck. I just recently bought a 4 speed tranny for $50 locally - so they are out there if you get in trouble.

I see someone has mentioned the AA-Forum.

Joe K

[Chuck Dempsey]

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Good Luck!

[trevorsworth]

Thanks, guys- Joe, lots of good info... I didn't observe any cracks on the transmission while I was under it but I'll look closer next time I'm with the truck. It has been outside for quite a long time and has been exposed to several fairly hard Texas freezes. That is my main concern with the engine too, because it has been sitting out with the rad cap off although seems to have been drained and the oil looks good.

I did notice a shaft between the rear of the transmission and the torque tube so no overdrive unit or anything there, but the shift lever has some kind of extra lever/switch on it that I'm not familiar with. Do you know what that might be? (Edit: Looks like a reverse lockout?)

I noticed it has some extra cab mounts on the back. They don't match but do bolt to what appears to be a factory bracket on the frame. I can't remember ever noticing those on the few AAs I've been around.

Do you recognize any remaining hardware on the frame that might be a clue as to what it was originally used for?

Also, although it is missing in all of my pictures I do have the windshield. The header is basically gone so we removed it from the truck to keep it from flapping.

[Gary WA]

Originally Posted by trevorsworth

Thanks, guys- Joe, lots of good info... I didn't observe any cracks on the transmission while I was under it but I'll look closer next time I'm with the truck. It has been outside for quite a long time and has been exposed to several fairly hard Texas freezes. That is my main concern with the engine too, because it has been sitting out with the rad cap off although seems to have been drained and the oil looks good.

I did notice a shaft between the rear of the transmission and the torque tube so no overdrive unit or anything there, but the shift lever has some kind of extra lever/switch on it that I'm not familiar with. Do you know what that might be? (Edit: Looks like a reverse lockout?)

I noticed it has some extra cab mounts on the back. They don't match but do bolt to what appears to be a factory bracket on the frame. I can't remember ever noticing those on the few AAs I've been around.

Do you recognize any remaining hardware on the frame that might be a clue as to what it was originally used for?

Also, although it is missing in all of my pictures I do have the windshield. The header is basically gone so we removed it from the truck to keep it from flapping.

Correct for reverse!.

[trevorsworth]

Thinking about options today.

So if my engine runs but the transmission is toast, I either need to look for another case (the gearset is probably OK), or look at other transmission options. I have known for a while that the AA bellhousing is the ticket for putting a T-5 in a Model A. If I understand correctly I should not even need to convert the truck to open drive to do this because there is already an open shaft between the transmission and the torque tube.

If the engine is toast but the transmission is good, I may put the running banger from my other A in this truck and then put my flathead V8 in that car because I have a 1937 Ford transmission ready to go for that.

If both are toast, I'll probably put the V8 in it with the truck transmission it already has. Is this as straightforward as it is in a Model A? Same stuff?

For what wood costs I may do the whole cab structure in steel except the top bows... just in a way that I can disguise it. I am not much of a woodworker and I know the wood kits are never a direct fit anyway.

[mngrant]

Green book is listed for sale in Ford barn sight under items for sale.

Good luck

[Gary WA]

Originally Posted by trevorsworth

Hey guys! I just picked up a stock AA that I intend to leave as stock as practical while still being able to use it to run around town and do some work. I have a little bit of experience around Model As, and currently have a T-bodied A, but the big truck is new to me.

I don't have any information on its past but I'm guessing it was a wrecker. The truck looks like it got a light restoration at some point but hasn't been monkeyed with all that much or worked to death like a lot of them. The chassis is nice and tight, kingpins aren't loose or anything, the truck rolls, stops and steers fine. The only real rust is at the bottom of the cab back and a little in the corners, nothing I can't handle. It's going to need wood... looks like I'll need to come up with like 800 bucks for that.

If the banger runs it's staying in the truck... if it doesn't I'm probably not going to chase down another banger. Has anyone put a flathead V8 in an AA? I can't see as to why it would be much different from putting one in an A. I have an 8RT with a truck trans out of a '49 F6 that would be perfect in this truck.

Is there a good source for AA-specific service parts? Mainly the brakes? Nothing is missing that I can see but I'm sure I will need to go through everything and might as well put new brake shoes on while I'm cleaning it up. I see brake linings but I've always just replaced the whole shoe. Not that I'm opposed to learning, but if I can just get new shoes for the same money, I'll do that.

I attached some pictures and here's a walkaround video... don't know if it will embed. Check out that monster of a front bumper!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoTqHrRL5yE

Is there anything a guy diving into an AA for the first time really ought to know? By the way, I gave $4500 for the truck as it sits and I feel like I got a pretty good deal.

Thanks for the help...

where you located?

[trevorsworth]

Originally Posted by Gary WA

where you located?

I'm down by Fort Worth Texas.

[Bob C]

"I should not even need to convert the truck to open drive to do this because there is already an open shaft between the transmission and the torque tube."


The coupling shaft should be closed unless you have and aftermarket open coupling shaft.

[trevorsworth]

Originally Posted by Bob C

"I should not even need to convert the truck to open drive to do this because there is already an open shaft between the transmission and the torque tube."


The coupling shaft should be closed unless you have and aftermarket open coupling shaft.

Noted. I only saw it briefly while crawling under the truck to look at the cab from below. It was 11 degrees so I didn't spend a lot of time looking.

[1930artdeco]

Welcome to The Barn! The transmissions are a dime a dozen-so to speak-as they used that tranny up until 48 I believe. So you should be able to get fairly cheap or is you want to ditch the granny gear just bolt on a standard A tranny and bell housing. You won't use 1st anyways unless you need to haul heavy stuff anyways.


Mike

[Chris Haynes]

A V8 and four speed would be a big job to swap into your AA. The V8 trans has no way to mount pedals or wishbones.

[trevorsworth]

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

A V8 and four speed would be a big job to swap into your AA. The V8 trans has no way to mount pedals or wishbones.

Yep, it's a lot of work for sure... When I got into this hobby my intention was to put this V8 into a coupe I had dragged home but I fell in love with the banger and the V8 fell by the wayside. I had bought a bunch of books and stuff to learn how to fabricate the motor mounts and pedal hangers and all that but never actually did it.

Now it looks like there are 1-800-hot-rod parts available too. But everything has a hydraulic brake conversion in mind... which is probably less straightforward on the AA than on the A.

I have seen some AV8s with fabricated crossmembers to capture the wishbone and hang pedals for the clutch and mechanical brakes, so if I have to replace this engine that is what I'll be doing. But with this truck being so complete and unmolested I really don't want to unless I have to. If she will run for me, I think it'd really be fair to call this truck a survivor.

[Joe K]

Everyone runs down the Model A for those "poor mechanical brakes." Actually the problem is not with the brakes being mechanical - their function is EXACTLY the same as hydraulic brakes, and possibly a bit "simpler" and more reliable/safer as each brake functional path is DUPLICATED for each wheel. A hydraulic failure leaves you with NO brakes. A broken brake rod leaves you with three brakes that work (well, except for that single rod connecting the pedal to the cross shaft.)

Where Henry made a mistake on the Model A was in using pressed steel drums. When these were new they worked pretty good. But time and wear have made the mechanical brakes increasingly more subject to "fade" - caused primarily by worn thin drums which are prone to heat and expand undoing their frictional advantage. Brake drum "reinforcing bands" help somewhat to at least add "meat" and surface area to dissipate the heat, and have been widely applied. Judging standards don't even mark you down for reinforcing bands "in the interest of safety."

Ford himself saw the wear/fade issue by late in the 1931 model year and started coming out with new Model A production in cast iron drums. By the time of the Model B the change-over was completed. (and 12" drums)

The best solution for the Model A is Henry's - cast iron brake drums. Today, most restorers tend to go this route as a matter of safety.

Back when I first began in the hobby (1970s) I took it upon myself to do a change over to hydraulic brakes by incorporating the 1939 plus backing plates and drums. I quickly observed the later hydraulic brakes benefited from a steel wheel center with cast iron drum. A "kit" existed to ease the transfer. I even started expanding the backing plate holes which was a requirement of the adaptation along with "rings."

But then it came to me - the REAL advantage of those hydraulic brakes was not in the hydraulics. But rather the cast iron brake drums. The 1939 onward hydraulic brakes were self-energizing, but not self adjusting. I still had to twiddle each wheel with an adjuster to get the brakes to brake evenly.

So not being like modern brakes I dropped the hydraulic brake project and resolved to do the best I could with mechanicals. This a "devil you know" thing.

Ford in the AA truck line made the transfer to cast iron drums about the same time as in cars, i.e. late 1931-32 onward. I have spoken of a basket case AA truck I took out of the cellar of a barn in Amherst, NH. That truck had been severely rebuilt at least once in its life with straightening/sistering of the frame. It was obviously a "major take down" for the truck. During the rebuilding they apparently took advantage to incorporate cast iron brake drums, which by then had become available. They did a very nice job on that AA frame - I should have kept it.

When I sold another low mileage roller/engine/tranny Model AA frame (26K original miles) I offered the rest of the basket case Model AA parts to the new Owner. I explained the advantage of cast iron drums - and he readily transferred my parts to his trailer. The 26K AA frame was transported to Texas with plenty of basket case accompaniment.

The way to tell cast iron AA brake drums from their pressed steel counterparts is to look at the "joint" between backing plate and drum. On the cast iron drum there is a small 1/4x1/4 "square" cast into the open edge of the drum at one location. This apparently used to somehow locate or drive the drum for subsequent machining. On the pressed steel drums there is nothing. The preparation for pressed steel drums included "burnishing" but not machining, so a precise locator was not required.

I have examined my "Green Book" for the front and rear brake drums. They reference an "AA" number but then asterisk it adjacent with "No longer available." This may be the pressed steel drum. Below it almost immediately following is the same numbers(s) except "BB" Both of these are 14" drums so an assumption might be made that the BB drum is cast iron.

Anyway, I would be curious to know what you have there.

Cast iron brake drums would be a coup.

Joe K

[Bob C]

Here's a cast AA drum.

[trevorsworth]

I like to save old stuff and hate to junk any old iron that could still put in the work. I'm a believer in mech brakes and took the time to restore those on the A chassis I put a 26 T roadster body on. I was very impressed with the stopping power of the "all steel - from pedal to wheel" brakes once the shoes had been arced and everything was adjusted by the book. Mine will lock all four wheels on command at any speed and I do not even have the floater kit installed - it's hard to imagine better braking than that.

With that in mind I have every intention of giving the mechanical brakes on this truck a fair shake. Thanks for the story and information, Joe & Bob. I'll put that on the list of things to look for on the truck. It would be very nice indeed to have those cast iron drums.