Comparison of Original and Halogen Bulbs

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by MikeK

ALL FOUR of the pictures have a different center element as well as other changes:

Are you also saying the center element plays a role in how the light is reflected outward....based on the candle power of the bulb??

[Tom Wesenberg]

I'm finally begining to see the light!

I'm keeping my original lights.

[P.S.]

C'mon, guys. Put up, or shut up- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=18

[MikeK]

Originally Posted by P.S.

C'mon, guys. Put up, or shut up- https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showpo...8&postcount=18

I admire your enthusiasm, but are you interested in just an observed opinion or a true evaluation? I've seen tons of online photos touting the great light output and pattern of aftermarket lights for cars. Also photos of how great some LED flashlights are compared to others, but it is all subjective, qualitative, and uncontrolled.

For this to be a valid analysis you will need to further define the conditions and method. A few simple preliminary Q's-

Will the collected data be quantitative or qualitative? If it is not quan, it will be dismissed by observers as opinion.

What will be used to establish a 'control' or standardized baseline identical to a properly focused and aimed pair of OEM headlights on a test target? Will that 'ideal' light pattern be the one established by Ford in '29, or a later, more modern light pattern. Or both? Each has some debatable validity.

When lamps are tested how will they be focused? Parallel output from the reflector only, then the lens is attached, or for best attainable pattern with a lens in place? What parameters define 'best attainable' without introducing subjection? Will the sockets/reflectors be modified to permit attaining halogen lamp focus if it cannot occur with the stock setup? (This could be a useful 'how to' mod for halogens.)

How will the "on target and on ideal pattern" light be measured, both in total, and in intensity at numerous points on the desired control pattern? Will view-able photographs be produced that are free of camera auto-exposure compensation and corrected for human spectral response. Halogens give off a lot of IR that a camera 'sees' and shows in photos, but humans will not see. Will high/low spectral cutoff filters be used to compensate and correct the photos?

How will off axis light be measured, and in what pattern? Will evaluation and analysis of the pattern weigh bad off-axis light(into oncoming traffic) and good (side of road and down) light differently?

What certified instrumentation will be used to quantify the light measurements, and at how many target points? 1000? 100,000? Will it produce a spectral analysis, and will that spectrum be normalized for human response? A gigawatt/sq m of UV or IR photons will knock the needle off a light meter, but a human will see nothing.

How will ambient and retro-reflected light be factored out?

What will standardize the supply voltage to the bulbs? A one-wire regulator? Other?

Other points. . . ? ? Outside variables to account for . . . ?

BOTTOM LINE- None of the above really matters. What an individual sees and perceives is what counts!! Unfortunately, to prove what you see, the above need to be addressed. Engineering. Gotta love it.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by MikeK

BOTTOM LINE- None of the above really matters. What an individual sees and perceives is what counts!! Unfortunately, to prove what you see, the above need to be addressed. Engineering. Gotta love it.

I "think" the test he wants to do is simple....Put in the halogens and drive, take out the halogens and put in standard bulbs and drive....PERIOD Done.. what is brighter...
PS...am i right or wrong here???

[Pat Martone]

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Mark,
I did just that; drove with each night and could "see" much better with the original style bulbs, compared to the halogens.
This was a surprising and disappointing discovery for me.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by Pat Martone

Mark,
I did just that; drove with each night and could "see" much better with the original style bulbs, compared to the halogens.
This was a surprising and disappointing discovery for me.

Pat... big surprise and for me the halogens i got from Brattons were much more bright than the 50/35 standard bulbs...very interesting...

[Kirby1374]

Originally Posted by msmaron

Pat... big surprise and for me the halogens i got from Brattons were much more bright than the 50/35 standard bulbs...very interesting...

yet another variable; brightness vs. visability. Or is this what this whole thread has turned into?

[TudooR31]

My brain is pulsating with all this information! Thanks!

With the mentioning of silvering the reflector is better than chrome...
could I glue strips of aluminum foil (shiny side up) into an old reflector and burnish with a spoon to get the desired silvering effect?

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by Kirby1374

yet another variable; brightness vs. visability. Or is this what this whole thread has turned into?

I should amend my post to say that not only were the halogens brighter but also very very good visibility

[Pat Martone]

Mark,
I am pleased to hear of your success using halogen bulbs!
Perhaps yours are of a better design than mine; I got mine from one of the local suppliers last summer, at a cost of about $26 each. I recall yours came from Australia.
My experience was that even if I could concede that the halogens are brighter, my traditional (although 12v) bulbs are preferable to me because they focus and place the light where I want it, and this is exactly where the Ford alignment instructions indicate it should be, which lights the area I want without disturbing others. Both a local Model A expert friend (who has the proper headlight alignment set-up in his amazing Model A garage) and myself individually, and together, could not focus the halogens, but nevertheless I tried using them at night for one or two nights and had to switch back to the traditional bulbs because I preferred the ability to focus and direct the light, which I could only do with traditional bulbs. No matter where we placed (adjusted) the headlight focus screws, we just could not focus the beam, but we could focus it very nicely with the traditional bulbs. To me, the halogen bulbs "threw" light everywhere which included irritating oncoming drivers. Simply, I can "see" better with the traditional bulbs, but again I hope that other people will have more success than I. My situation must be unique because I have read too many positive comments on halogen bulbs.
I will add that I use 12 volts, an alternator, the new Bratton's made-to-original-Ford-print headlight reflectors, and LED tail lights (which I think save more power (amps) for the headlights).

[TerryH]

I also agree with the above....it appears that almost everyone has a different take or result on this, but it boils down to what works best for you. I also started out with stock headlights, even put the higher candle power bulbs in, helped some, but I was also much happier with quartz halogen. I bought one of the kits from either Brattons or Snyders several years ago and had a local Model A mechanic install for me. He said it did take some time for him to focus them correctly, but they sure light up the road for me...both in terms of where the light is and the brightness of it. And mine are 6v with an alternator. Just my results, but I am not going back...............

[Pat Martone]

TerryH,
So, you're onto something that I haven't considered.
We've been speaking for the most part about using the existing reflector with the direct replacement halogen bulb with no modifications required, but you indicated that you have a "kit".
Is your kit just the Snyder's "Quartz Adapter Kit" ($50) which includes the bulbs and sockets but requires you to modify your existing reflectors, or is your kit the Snyder's "Quartz Adapter Kit" ($100) that also includes the 2 reflectors?
Which kit works better?
Is the kit that comes with the reflectors the proper parabolic shape/profile and are they chrome or aluminum coated; for only $50 more to include 2 reflectors I can't imagine they are very good reflectors, but I guess it beats "butchering" your existing reflectors.
I also wonder if either kit is really designed to be used with the Ford two-lite headlamp lens?
So I wonder if either of the two Quartz halogen kits are better than using halogen bulbs designed to fit the existing bulb sockets in high quality original Ford type reflectors?

[msmaron]

fascinating great discussion. YES what works for one may not for the other,. i was using the 50/32 standard bulbs from Brattons, and I was able to focus and found that they are GREAT. BUT i drive a lot at night and in areas that are not lit at all, I switched to the halogen bratton bulb and yes it lit up the street and i was able to "see" much better and in turn was safer for me.. NOW I have not tried the German bulb yet from AU.. I will report back when they are in..just a Bit cold here right now...thanks all

[P.S.]

Mike, Mark, Pat, etc.:

I hadn't really given it extensive thought, as these are just lights. The plan was to establish a "calibration point", that is, having the actual car at an established point and marking the location at both a long road and in front of a vertical barrier. Was thinking it would be best to use a power supply to run the car electrical system so a voltage standard can be set. Let's say, 7.0 volts or so. As long as the voltage at the lights can be measured accurately and make it repeatable. Then, suppose I would make measurements and take photos with both types of lights and compare the data. None of this would be "subjective" as that is a real pet peeve of mine (engineer minds are wired differently).

Lumens are easily measured, but from what exact point to take the measurement is the question Mike brought up as part of his extensive post. For that, I suppose the areas which one would wish to see are the most important with oncoming drivers being secondary and everything else tertiary.

But, one thing I have learned in my short time here on the Fordbarn forum is that there are hundreds of people willing to post their thoughts on a subject, and even debate a subject, all without a shred of a care for uncovering actual facts. I'm 99.9% sure that nobody is going to send a set of stock lights to compare for this experiment, so all of this is most likely moot.

It's been so long since seeing at night with Model A stock headlights, I totally forgot why I chose to stay with halogens. I do remember being able to see "more" with halogens and do remember the lights illuminating objects farther out, but any more than that without actual measurements borders on becoming subjective.

[msmaron]

Originally Posted by P.S.

Mike, Mark, Pat, etc.:

I do remember being able to see "more" with halogens and do remember the lights illuminating objects farther out, but any more than that without actual measurements borders on becoming subjective.

That is the key. Able to see more. Those of us that drive daily at night consider this very important. Thanks again

[columbiA]

I use 32-32 stock bulbs with repop chrome reflectors & lenses with 6V gen with regulator in cut-out can & have good lites for 50 mph driving.Also have soldered connections & good grounds.For me,there is no need for "improvements" in lighting.

[jegbflat]

Yes, I'm very late to the party - don't know if any of you are still online at Ford Barn, but thought I'd take a chance. Your discussion was obviously very technical and especially so for me - first time car project. I'm making Grandpa's ole' '36 Chevy pickup into a RestoMod. I have all original parts for headlights, including moderately oxidized reflectors. I want to run turn signals inside bucket (my reflectors have 2 holes). Technical and engineering info aside, I would greatly appreciate just a little advice on which of the following routes to go (or is there other alternative?). This will not be a daily driver, nor a show quality truck. Limited use in parades, local car shows, probably very little night driving. Given that, my limited research says: 1) resilver my reflectors ($350) and replace bulbs with 12v OR 2) purchase new kit containing reflectors, gaskets, bulbs (standard), sockets & wiring ($130) OR 3) purchase new quartz kit just like 2) except with quartz halogen bulbs ($110) OR ?? Thank you for you insight.... jg

[RonC]

Any tests should be made with Brattons reflectors as they are the best available and possibly better than originals as they don't tarnish. Also NOS HEADLIGHT BULBS must be used. I don't believe the repro original style bulbs are true headlight bulbs. Real headlight bulbs can be focused better and have a better light pattern.

[dean from bozeman]

Mike K., this is awesome work. Thanks.

To "focus" a bulb we need to bring the filament to the focal point of the parabolic reflector. In Mike's photos the gray arrow shows this distance from the bulb's pins. (The original-type bulb shows where the focal point is). When a bulb's filament is at the focus, light will rebound off the reflector and the rays will be parallel and point forward. This is the "useable" light for driving. The headlight lens will help diffuse some of the light to the surrounding area but most of the light will be "useable".

Any bulb that has a filament not on the focal point will send the light in scattered directions (not useable and can be a hinderance for oncoming traffic). As several of you found out, the original equipment is as good, if not better, than a brighter unfocused halogen.

I've got a great photo to explain this but am unable to insert it. Ugh.

A good experiment would be to duplicate the set up found on page 35 in the Model A owner's manual. If any has photos similar to those on page 35, please post them. That would be the defining test.