The Ford Barn

CO29Coupe · 02-20-2012, 05:40 PM

Greetings, all. I'm about at my wit's end with this car of mine. It appears that a previous owner replaced the top at some point. Unfortunately, it also appears that Ray Charles was called upon to perform the replacement...

Before I rip the top off, I wanted to gather the necessary parts to make it the process go smoother. As I'm looking closer at it, I can't tell if the car came from the factory as a Special Coupe, and not a Standard Coupe. Are there good methods to determine how this came from the factory? My experience has been later model vehicles (muscle car era), which now seem MUCH easier to research. Any tips?

Thank you in advance!!

Fred · 02-20-2012, 06:04 PM

It sure looks like one to me & I have one.. Does it have a belt rail around the lower back ?? And another thin one over the top just above the rear 1/4 window.. And smaller strips around the rear windows.. If so thats it.. They never came from the factory with cowl lights..

Dave in MD · 02-20-2012, 06:15 PM

The Special Coupes were made for about one year starting July 10th 1928. They do have the special moldings that Fred mentioned and some additional wood in the body to support some of those moldings. If you don't have the belt rail and moldings behind the quarter window, they can be very difficult to locate.
Dave

CO29Coupe · 02-20-2012, 06:19 PM

Fred, yes, it does have the belt rail. The thin one over the top is there, but looks like it's glued on (I can see no nails/screws, except at the end), and there are little ones around the quarter windows. These all appear, however, to be aftermarket. The drip rails are aluminum, and not very pleasant to look at. I have seen a couple of pictures of Special Coupes with the tops removed, or in the process of having them replaced, and there doesn't appear to be any metal between the rear window and the quarter windows. Is this accurate? I took an old speaker magnet and felt metal in between the windows, which leads me to believe that this might have been converted to a Special, but still might be a Standard underneath.

Thoughts?

Marco Tahtaras · 02-20-2012, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO29Coupe

Fred, yes, it does have the belt rail. The thin one over the top is there, but looks like it's glued on (I can see no nails/screws, except at the end), and there are little ones around the quarter windows. These all appear, however, to be aftermarket. The drip rails are aluminum, and not very pleasant to look at. I have seen a couple of pictures of Special Coupes with the tops removed, or in the process of having them replaced, and there doesn't appear to be any metal between the rear window and the quarter windows. Is this accurate? I took an old speaker magnet and felt metal in between the windows, which leads me to believe that this might have been converted to a Special, but still might be a Standard underneath.

Thoughts?

There were steel filler panels covering all voids except the large top opening. I'm sure where you see vertical wood in photos you will find little magnetism through your top.

RcT · 02-20-2012, 06:48 PM

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If we are talking about the car in your avatar, it certainly appears to be a Special Coupe. The first Model A Ford Coupe was the Standard Coupe, with a metal sub-structure and wood on the interior for attachment of the upholstery. This coupe had finished, painted metal on the sides of the top portion with a long-grain vinyl top. Sometime in June of 1928, the Standard Coupe was replaced with the Special Coupe, which was nothing more than a standard coupe with leatherette down to the belt line. This originally had a two piece molding at the belt line, A base strip tacked on, then a curved metal cover over the top of that. (very hard to find in decent shape, if at all) Some of these were replaced with an after-market nail-on molding, which sounds like what you have. Special Coupes were the only coupe produced until April, 1929, when production went back to the metal top portion.

Even your Special coupe will have metal nailed to the wood frame, then padded and covered. If the headliner is out of the car, you should see the metal panels.

Sport Coupes (permanent cloth tops with landeau irons) and Business Coupes (cloth again, no landeau irons, with or without oval sidewindows) were also offered in these years.

The Deluxe Coupe was a different designation for a 30-31 Coupe with the extras... cowl lights, dome light, etc. and is not a "Special Coupe".

Clear as mud? I would say you have a Special Coupe without the original metal belt at the body line. Have fun with it.

Keith True · 02-20-2012, 07:07 PM

It sounds like the pictures you have seen were SPORT Coupes being done,not Specials.Specials do have metal all around. I prefer 30-31 cars myself,but the Special Coupe is one of the best looking A's made as far as I'm concerned.

CO29Coupe · 02-20-2012, 07:23 PM

Absolutely clear as mud!!

Thank you all for the responses. My initial plans may have changed, then. I had planned to use an insert ala Standard Coupe, and if the Special parts coming off are hammered, I may save them for another time, unless I can find a killer upholstery guy to make the top look better than the substandard attempt on it now.

CO29Coupe · 02-20-2012, 07:26 PM

Actually, I have one more clarifying question - would it be possible to install a Standard top insert on this body, if replacement parts became unavailable?

RcT · 02-20-2012, 07:33 PM

I wouldn't even attempt to make the change you refer to. Besides, you have something to keep, as it is "Special". If you want a standard coupe, they are not that hard to find. better yet, replace this top yourself. kits are available.

I can tell from the number of posts, you are new to this. Your best bet is to meet other A people in your area, and they will be more than willing to help you. Sounds like you need a mentor...

Fred · 02-20-2012, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO29Coupe

Absolutely clear as mud!!

Thank you all for the responses. My initial plans may have changed, then. I had planned to use an insert ala Standard Coupe, and if the Special parts coming off are hammered, I may save them for another time, unless I can find a killer upholstery guy to make the top look better than the substandard attempt on it now.

Why ??, If you have all the pieces I & others have asked about, You have the HARDEST pieces to find for that car.. You can get a complete top kit from L/B in N.H...

RcT · 02-20-2012, 08:10 PM

The new Bratton's Catalog has a top kit for the Special Coupe for $199.50. If I were closere to you, I would offer my help. You can do it. I think You Tube has videos on top replacement. If you don't have the proper trim piece, Hidum Welt will work. You can do it. And the satisfaction that comes with it is well worth it. Did I say, "You can do it"?

Huckster Dave · 02-20-2012, 09:14 PM

You can't be to far from Berts in Denver.

Marco Tahtaras · 02-20-2012, 11:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO29Coupe

Actually, I have one more clarifying question - would it be possible to install a Standard top insert on this body, if replacement parts became unavailable?

You would need to purchase (and restore) the entire upper body section from a 45-A coupe from the belt line up and replace the same from yours to do so.

CO29Coupe · 02-21-2012, 04:10 PM

Got it, thank you all!! I think it's clear that I will retain the Special top, and look for a top kit for my summer project.

I appreciate it, guys!

CO29Coupe · 02-21-2012, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RcT

The new Bratton's Catalog has a top kit for the Special Coupe for $199.50. If I were closere to you, I would offer my help. You can do it. I think You Tube has videos on top replacement. If you don't have the proper trim piece, Hidum Welt will work. You can do it. And the satisfaction that comes with it is well worth it. Did I say, "You can do it"?

I've looked online at their catalog, but couldn't find a 'kit'. I'll keep looking.

Bob C · 02-21-2012, 05:38 PM

Here you go http://www.brattons.com/product.asp?...=any&PT_ID=all

Bob

700rpm · 02-21-2012, 09:27 PM

Be very careful with that belt rail. If you damage it, you will look long and hard to find a replacement.

Farrell In Vancouver · 02-22-2012, 09:28 AM

RcT, That top does need help. I noticed the two "Darts" in the corners where the roof rolls down. The first kit I bought came with these, but it belongs on another car (Blind Back?) I sent the kit back and waited for the right one and when it came I was pretty nervous of tackling the job. But I am here to tell you it can be done with time and patience. Oh, and Pick a warm day or a hot garage. If you click on my name you should be able to view my album which has some detail of the roof structure. Glad someone else is preserving another "special" coupe. Rusry has one too as well as a few other posters. Welcome to the best site in the world!

Dave in MD · 02-22-2012, 10:26 AM

Brattons, sells upholstery kits made by Cartouche. I bought my initial top from them and it had the wrong material and they had put extra seams at the top corners of the rear panel. I had talked to Cartouche before ordering the kit and I thought they knew what I wanted. It was sent back, and I ordered the second top from Classtique and that is what is on my Special Coupe now.
Dave

02-20-2012, 05:40 PM	#1
CO29Coupe Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 13	How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Greetings, all. I'm about at my wit's end with this car of mine. It appears that a previous owner replaced the top at some point. Unfortunately, it also appears that Ray Charles was called upon to perform the replacement... Before I rip the top off, I wanted to gather the necessary parts to make it the process go smoother. As I'm looking closer at it, I can't tell if the car came from the factory as a Special Coupe, and not a Standard Coupe. Are there good methods to determine how this came from the factory? My experience has been later model vehicles (muscle car era), which now seem MUCH easier to research. Any tips? Thank you in advance!!

02-20-2012, 06:04 PM	#2
Fred BANNED Join Date: May 2010 Location: California, Maryland Posts: 1,421	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? It sure looks like one to me & I have one.. Does it have a belt rail around the lower back ?? And another thin one over the top just above the rear 1/4 window.. And smaller strips around the rear windows.. If so thats it.. They never came from the factory with cowl lights..

02-20-2012, 06:15 PM	#3
Dave in MD Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 175	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? The Special Coupes were made for about one year starting July 10th 1928. They do have the special moldings that Fred mentioned and some additional wood in the body to support some of those moldings. If you don't have the belt rail and moldings behind the quarter window, they can be very difficult to locate. Dave

02-20-2012, 06:19 PM	#4
CO29Coupe Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 13	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Fred, yes, it does have the belt rail. The thin one over the top is there, but looks like it's glued on (I can see no nails/screws, except at the end), and there are little ones around the quarter windows. These all appear, however, to be aftermarket. The drip rails are aluminum, and not very pleasant to look at. I have seen a couple of pictures of Special Coupes with the tops removed, or in the process of having them replaced, and there doesn't appear to be any metal between the rear window and the quarter windows. Is this accurate? I took an old speaker magnet and felt metal in between the windows, which leads me to believe that this might have been converted to a Special, but still might be a Standard underneath. Thoughts?

02-20-2012, 06:48 PM	#6
RcT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 451	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If we are talking about the car in your avatar, it certainly appears to be a Special Coupe. The first Model A Ford Coupe was the Standard Coupe, with a metal sub-structure and wood on the interior for attachment of the upholstery. This coupe had finished, painted metal on the sides of the top portion with a long-grain vinyl top. Sometime in June of 1928, the Standard Coupe was replaced with the Special Coupe, which was nothing more than a standard coupe with leatherette down to the belt line. This originally had a two piece molding at the belt line, A base strip tacked on, then a curved metal cover over the top of that. (very hard to find in decent shape, if at all) Some of these were replaced with an after-market nail-on molding, which sounds like what you have. Special Coupes were the only coupe produced until April, 1929, when production went back to the metal top portion. Even your Special coupe will have metal nailed to the wood frame, then padded and covered. If the headliner is out of the car, you should see the metal panels. Sport Coupes (permanent cloth tops with landeau irons) and Business Coupes (cloth again, no landeau irons, with or without oval sidewindows) were also offered in these years. The Deluxe Coupe was a different designation for a 30-31 Coupe with the extras... cowl lights, dome light, etc. and is not a "Special Coupe". Clear as mud? I would say you have a Special Coupe without the original metal belt at the body line. Have fun with it.

02-20-2012, 07:07 PM	#7
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,990	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? It sounds like the pictures you have seen were SPORT Coupes being done,not Specials.Specials do have metal all around. I prefer 30-31 cars myself,but the Special Coupe is one of the best looking A's made as far as I'm concerned.

02-20-2012, 07:23 PM	#8
CO29Coupe Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 13	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Absolutely clear as mud!! Thank you all for the responses. My initial plans may have changed, then. I had planned to use an insert ala Standard Coupe, and if the Special parts coming off are hammered, I may save them for another time, unless I can find a killer upholstery guy to make the top look better than the substandard attempt on it now.

02-20-2012, 07:26 PM	#9
CO29Coupe Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 13	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Actually, I have one more clarifying question - would it be possible to install a Standard top insert on this body, if replacement parts became unavailable?

02-20-2012, 07:33 PM	#10
RcT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 451	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? I wouldn't even attempt to make the change you refer to. Besides, you have something to keep, as it is "Special". If you want a standard coupe, they are not that hard to find. better yet, replace this top yourself. kits are available. I can tell from the number of posts, you are new to this. Your best bet is to meet other A people in your area, and they will be more than willing to help you. Sounds like you need a mentor...

02-20-2012, 08:10 PM	#12
RcT Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 451	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? The new Bratton's Catalog has a top kit for the Special Coupe for $199.50. If I were closere to you, I would offer my help. You can do it. I think You Tube has videos on top replacement. If you don't have the proper trim piece, Hidum Welt will work. You can do it. And the satisfaction that comes with it is well worth it. Did I say, "You can do it"?

02-20-2012, 09:14 PM	#13
Huckster Dave Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ronan, Montana Posts: 158	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? You can't be to far from Berts in Denver.

02-21-2012, 04:10 PM	#15
CO29Coupe Junior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Littleton, CO Posts: 13	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Got it, thank you all!! I think it's clear that I will retain the Special top, and look for a top kit for my summer project. I appreciate it, guys!

02-21-2012, 05:38 PM	#17
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,755	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Here you go http://www.brattons.com/product.asp?...=any&PT_ID=all Bob

02-21-2012, 09:27 PM	#18
700rpm Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Portland, Oregon Posts: 5,906	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Be very careful with that belt rail. If you damage it, you will look long and hard to find a replacement. __________________ Ray Horton, Portland, OR As you go through life, keep your eye on the donut, not the hole.

02-22-2012, 09:28 AM	#19
Farrell In Vancouver Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pitt Meadows BC Posts: 1,003	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? RcT, That top does need help. I noticed the two "Darts" in the corners where the roof rolls down. The first kit I bought came with these, but it belongs on another car (Blind Back?) I sent the kit back and waited for the right one and when it came I was pretty nervous of tackling the job. But I am here to tell you it can be done with time and patience. Oh, and Pick a warm day or a hot garage. If you click on my name you should be able to view my album which has some detail of the roof structure. Glad someone else is preserving another "special" coupe. Rusry has one too as well as a few other posters. Welcome to the best site in the world!

02-22-2012, 10:26 AM	#20
Dave in MD Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 175	Re: How Can I Tell If It's a 'Special Coupe'??? Brattons, sells upholstery kits made by Cartouche. I bought my initial top from them and it had the wrong material and they had put extra seams at the top corners of the rear panel. I had talked to Cartouche before ordering the kit and I thought they knew what I wanted. It was sent back, and I ordered the second top from Classtique and that is what is on my Special Coupe now. Dave