The Ford Barn

scooder · 01-18-2014, 11:51 AM

Ross I fully agree that it cant hurt to avoid oils that could hurt, But if this Sulfur compound has been used for ever in Ep oil, it aint done much bad either, apart from Dodge Cummins crowd had bunch of failures from towing heavy 5th wheels thru the desert in the summer. Then why avoid something that don't matter?
I belive somone said earlyer about the leadfree gas that will kill every engine built before some time in the 70's. That was a load of worry about almost nothing. Sure it was a problem with a certain use, high miles under heavy load and such (sounds similar to the Cummings in the desert story, d'ya think) And some engies that were made out of choclate, had valve seat resetion (sp?) Most of us have not had a problem. This discounts Flatheads and the like due to them already having hard seats, so it didn't worry them (us) at all. But there were many many companys trying to sell us magic in a bottle, or pellets in the tank or something you clip on your fuel line to stop the fuel killing our engines. These guys refused to belive that there was a load of engines built BEFORE the widespread use of lead in fuel. And obviuosly these engines were not efected.
I'm not saying its hogwash, just it sounds like the same thing over again.
I'd also like to know if the sulfer has been used for ever, or when did they start using it. This would help pin down the B.S from the real issue.
Don't like the point of folk worrying over something they don't have to worry over. And then we can get back to real issues, like vapour lock.
Many thanks
Martin. With my toung firmly in my cheek.
I wish I could spell tong, toughn, tung, whatever.

expavr · 01-19-2014, 02:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael L.

Oldrelics: I am in Canada too. I got my buddy Gerry to pick up a case of GL-1 at NAPA in Palm Springs. In Canada NAPA doesn't sell the same things as they do in the US. Anyhow, simple solution, reasonable price.
Mike L.

I agree. The NAPA GL1 90 wt Gear Lube is a straight mineral oil product no ep additives which matches the OEM spec for the 49 Merc O/D transmission I'm using in the truck. I was able to special order it in a 1 gal. container from the local NAPA dealer in WA.

scooder · 01-19-2014, 07:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by expavr

I agree. The NAPA GL1 90 wt Gear Lube is a straight mineral oil product no ep additives which matches the OEM spec for the 49 Merc O/D transmission I'm using in the truck. I was able to special order it in a 1 gal. container from the local NAPA dealer in WA.

Glad you popped along here, I'm also using a Merc overdrive in a pickup. Mines in my '42 . He's getting close to being on the road. You made my double check the lube spec for the trans.
I've just had a look in the '41-'48 service bulletins ( as late as my books go) and found this out.
Lincoln overdrive ( same b/w unit) '42 gear oil sae. 80 or 90. '42 and up to '47 sae 80 EP or 90 EP
I don't have lube sheet for the '49. Merc seems from above post they moved away from the EP for the Merc overdrive. Anybody know why? And these EP oils listed in the service bulletins anybody know if these early EP contained the sulfer that's bad? Or is it later oils with the bad stuff?
Many thanks
Martin

rotorwrench · 01-19-2014, 01:39 PM

The Borg Warner overdive system uses a one way clutch (roller sprag clutch) to drive torque through and allow freewheel action. This clutch can slip under heavy load with a high EP gear lube like GL-5. The GL-4 is a medium EP that would be considered acceptable. GL-3 mild EP was originally utilized for this purpose but was replaced by GL-4 specs or you have to go back to GL-1 specs with no EP additives.

scooder · 01-19-2014, 03:42 PM

Thanks Mr rench that answers the Merc gear oil question.
Martin.

expavr · 01-19-2014, 06:58 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

The Borg Warner overdive system uses a one way clutch (roller sprag clutch) to drive torque through and allow freewheel action. This clutch can slip under heavy load with a high EP gear lube like GL-5. The GL-4 is a medium EP that would be considered acceptable. GL-3 mild EP was originally utilized for this purpose but was replaced by GL-4 specs or you have to go back to GL-1 specs with no EP additives.

I think you may have hit the nail on the head. The use of non EP gear lube isn't necessarily related to degradation of yellow metals in the trans. In the 49-51 Merc/Lincoln Service manual the reference to the use of non EP gear lube shows up only in the O/D part of the transmission rebuild section.

green50 · 02-17-2014, 09:10 PM

Has anyone tried Pennzoil Synchromesh manual transmission fluid in their Borg Warner O/D (49-50-51) transmissions?

jake197000 · 02-17-2014, 09:19 PM

what about the millions of transmissions out the with brass rings in them using generic gear oil.they work just fine.not saying some oils arnt better,they sure are but i think its a non problem.built hundreds of trans over the years.no oil related failures that i know of.as long as they were full.

Milt K from Pa · 02-17-2014, 11:00 PM

NAPA's Sta-lube 85/90 IS GL4. I use it in my gear box. It helps make shifting easier than the 140.
Milt K from Pa

corvette8n · 02-18-2014, 09:48 AM

I get GL-1 at Tractor Supply in 5 gal. Containers for my Ford 8N, not sure if they have any stores in Canada, but try your local tractor store.

Talkwrench · 02-18-2014, 07:31 PM

Penrite Mild EP or The T-140 transoil but only use it if your in a hot climate.

green50 · 03-29-2014, 01:48 PM

Just picked up some GL-1 at NAPA for the 50 O/D trans. I'll be doing the swap soon. Sorry for the sideways pic.

scooder · 03-29-2014, 04:52 PM

Gene, be sure to pop back in here with your results please.
Many thanks,
Martin.

jon laing · 04-03-2014, 04:37 PM

Finding a sulfur free sae 90 or 140 has become a challenge. I find those listed on this site are no longer available, they contain sulfur or nobody knows if they contain sulfur. Can someone tell me one that will not cause corrosion in transmision or rear end, has sae 90 and/or 140 wt. and is readily available? Thanks Jon Laing

rotorwrench · 04-03-2014, 06:07 PM

The old GL-3 rating was replaced by the later GL-4 rating on gear lubricants. GL-4 is considered mild EP with very low sulphur content. NAPA and some others still offer GL-4. The only lubes available with no sulphur are the GL-1 rated lubes which have no extra pressure additives. Lubriplate still makes them under the SPO series and they are available from a distributor of their products or you can buy from Restoration Supply Co.

01-18-2014, 11:51 AM	#21
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? Ross I fully agree that it cant hurt to avoid oils that could hurt, But if this Sulfur compound has been used for ever in Ep oil, it aint done much bad either, apart from Dodge Cummins crowd had bunch of failures from towing heavy 5th wheels thru the desert in the summer. Then why avoid something that don't matter? I belive somone said earlyer about the leadfree gas that will kill every engine built before some time in the 70's. That was a load of worry about almost nothing. Sure it was a problem with a certain use, high miles under heavy load and such (sounds similar to the Cummings in the desert story, d'ya think) And some engies that were made out of choclate, had valve seat resetion (sp?) Most of us have not had a problem. This discounts Flatheads and the like due to them already having hard seats, so it didn't worry them (us) at all. But there were many many companys trying to sell us magic in a bottle, or pellets in the tank or something you clip on your fuel line to stop the fuel killing our engines. These guys refused to belive that there was a load of engines built BEFORE the widespread use of lead in fuel. And obviuosly these engines were not efected. I'm not saying its hogwash, just it sounds like the same thing over again. I'd also like to know if the sulfer has been used for ever, or when did they start using it. This would help pin down the B.S from the real issue. Don't like the point of folk worrying over something they don't have to worry over. And then we can get back to real issues, like vapour lock. Many thanks Martin. With my toung firmly in my cheek. I wish I could spell tong, toughn, tung, whatever.

01-19-2014, 01:39 PM	#24
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? The Borg Warner overdive system uses a one way clutch (roller sprag clutch) to drive torque through and allow freewheel action. This clutch can slip under heavy load with a high EP gear lube like GL-5. The GL-4 is a medium EP that would be considered acceptable. GL-3 mild EP was originally utilized for this purpose but was replaced by GL-4 specs or you have to go back to GL-1 specs with no EP additives.

01-19-2014, 03:42 PM	#25
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? Thanks Mr rench that answers the Merc gear oil question. Martin.

02-17-2014, 09:10 PM	#27
green50 Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: North Georgia Posts: 392	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? Has anyone tried Pennzoil Synchromesh manual transmission fluid in their Borg Warner O/D (49-50-51) transmissions? __________________ Gene

02-17-2014, 09:19 PM	#28
jake197000 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 350	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? what about the millions of transmissions out the with brass rings in them using generic gear oil.they work just fine.not saying some oils arnt better,they sure are but i think its a non problem.built hundreds of trans over the years.no oil related failures that i know of.as long as they were full.

02-17-2014, 11:00 PM	#29
Milt K from Pa Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Pittsburgh Pa. Area Posts: 272	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? NAPA's Sta-lube 85/90 IS GL4. I use it in my gear box. It helps make shifting easier than the 140. Milt K from Pa

02-18-2014, 09:48 AM	#30
corvette8n Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: 36 miles north of Albany NY Posts: 2,954	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? I get GL-1 at Tractor Supply in 5 gal. Containers for my Ford 8N, not sure if they have any stores in Canada, but try your local tractor store.

02-18-2014, 07:31 PM	#31
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? Penrite Mild EP or The T-140 transoil but only use it if your in a hot climate. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

03-29-2014, 04:52 PM	#33
scooder Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 2,593	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? Gene, be sure to pop back in here with your results please. Many thanks, Martin.

04-03-2014, 04:37 PM	#34
jon laing Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: DRUMMOND iSLAND, Mi. Posts: 247	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? Finding a sulfur free sae 90 or 140 has become a challenge. I find those listed on this site are no longer available, they contain sulfur or nobody knows if they contain sulfur. Can someone tell me one that will not cause corrosion in transmision or rear end, has sae 90 and/or 140 wt. and is readily available? Thanks Jon Laing

04-03-2014, 06:07 PM	#35
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: '39-'41 non-corrosive trans lube availability? The old GL-3 rating was replaced by the later GL-4 rating on gear lubricants. GL-4 is considered mild EP with very low sulphur content. NAPA and some others still offer GL-4. The only lubes available with no sulphur are the GL-1 rated lubes which have no extra pressure additives. Lubriplate still makes them under the SPO series and they are available from a distributor of their products or you can buy from Restoration Supply Co.