Cleaning oil pan sludge without dropping it- before changing to detergent based oil

[gilitos]

Originally Posted by Steve Wastler

Obviously you have never seen how much or to what extent the sludge can be. Your first sent ace makes no sence. the oil pump is at the lowest point in the pan, and the pump has a cover pulling in from the bottom, large amounts of sludge certainly restrict good oil flow, and will clog the pump and oil passages.

Well, Steve, we're making a lot of assumptions about what I have or haven't seen in terms of the amount of sludge that can build up in a motor, aren't we? We could compare notes and I bet I've been in more old motors in compromised states than you have. (see? now I'M making assumptions about you without knowing anything about you, either!) If you had read the post a bit more carefully, you would have noted that I referred to a "good running motor", not a junker that had been neglected for decades and might have had the oil pump inlet (or other passages) occluded by sludge.

Sludge (1/2 inch or maybe more) is a fact of life in pre-detergent oil motors. It's not harmful in MOST cases; it's solid and isn't going anywhere. Disturbing it so that it circulates into the bearings, etc IS harmful. Better to leave it undisturbed until the ENTIRE motor can be cleaned during a rebuild, IMO.

[Steve Wastler]

I made no assumptions, you stilll make no sence, how could removeing the pan to clean out sludge be detrimental to the engine? Your taking it off and removing crap, and putting back clean??????

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Originally Posted by Chris H

When I pulled my oil pan, I expected the worst when reinstalling the pan and new gaskets. I had the car on jack stands and used a small bottle jack to support the pan, just to hold it in place. I applied a very very light coat of silicone gasket sealant to the engine side of the gaskets to hold them to the block. Made sure the gasket surfaces were clean and free of oil, dirt, and grease. Then just raised the pan in place and adjusted the bottle jack to hold the pan in place while installing the bolts. It was very easy and took about an hour.

I thought it was too easy, and expected to see some leaks. So far so good after about 500 miles or so. I park it over a pan and never see any oil.

Maybe it was beginners luck ???

Naw! Chris, It ain't beginner's luck,
Chief would say, "IT'S SUPER SKILL!"
Keep on wrenchin' Bill W.

[1st_model_a]

Pried the oil pan off. Foolish me I thought it would come loose just by the weight of it. Used slim putty knife all the way around & separated gasket from pan. Had to beat the baffle out of the oil pan. It was stuck in retaining grooves. Question is: after cleaning the pan can see some beginnings of rust. Is this to be expected? Do I need to do anything to the pan before I put it back together? Attached pix of oil pan.

[Tom Wesenberg]

The rust doesn't look too bad. Are there any deep pits? I like to sandblast the inside and paint it with PPG DP-90, and top coat it with DCC 9000.

[tbirdtbird]

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Tom, you would sandblast the inside of an oil pan? Do you go to church every day? I would treat the rust which doesn't look bad with phosphoric acid and not paint at all. Why risk paint flaking off in 20 yrs and clogging a pump?

[Terry, NJ]

Correct me if I'm wrong, But a detergent Anything, Soap, oil, etc. Means it holds the dirt in suspension. It doesn't mean that it dissolves dirt or grease (sludge).
Terry

[gweilbaker]

Originally Posted by tbirdtbird

Tom, you would sandblast the inside of an oil pan? Do you go to church every day? I would treat the rust which doesn't look bad with phosphoric acid and not paint at all. Why risk paint flaking off in 20 yrs and clogging a pump?

He may mean the outside.

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by gweilbaker

He may mean the outside.

No, I do paint the inside just like many industrial and marine engines. Never had a problem doing this and it makes the oil drain better, and keeps the acids from coming in contact with the metal on the oil pan.

[Timsalways]

As a rule of thumb, how often should the pan be dropped? I have a 1930 Tudor and dropped the pan to fix an oil leak and found the main tube was missing, the oil leak is fixed, but I read somewhere it should be dropped every so often because there is no filter

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by Timsalways

As a rule of thumb, how often should the pan be dropped? I have a 1930 Tudor and dropped the pan to fix an oil leak and found the main tube was missing, the oil leak is fixed, but I read somewhere it should be dropped every so often because there is no filter

10-15 years will do it.

[western77]

Every time you check your main and rod bearings will do!

[Growley bear]

Originally Posted by pat in Santa Cruz

drop the pan, pull the valve cover and clean it. If you're short on time, continue with ND oil until you have the time to do it the right way. Pluck's absolutely right...pay now or pay later.

I agree, pay me now or pay me later; sometimes the hard way is the easy way.
Years ago I switched a small fleet of school busses over from non detergent to detergent oil. At every regularly scheduled oil change interval, one more quart detergent and one less quart non detergent. Much more time involved than pulling the pan and side cover off of a model a engine; just my experience.
Chet

[Timsalways]

Originally Posted by Timsalways

As a rule of thumb, how often should the pan be dropped? I have a 1930 Tudor and dropped the pan to fix an oil leak and found the main tube was missing, the oil leak is fixed, but I read somewhere it should be dropped every so often because there is no filter

I like all Yall's answer! Looks like I'm good till the oil leak gets worse I started using a 15/40 diesel oil in it lately, she was on 5/30 for awhile, till I found out better. Thank you all for the help

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Terry, NJ

Dropping the pan for any reason inspires memories of my 49-53 ford days and they ain't fun! Putting them back was even worse! So I'm leaning towards just putting the detergent oil into the engine. As Tom W pointed out, the diesel plus the bubbling cavitation didn't break off chunks of sludge. I Think the sludge will dissolve in in layers as you change the oil. I have no fears about putting MMO or a similar (ATF) product into the crankcase. In time, this combined with frequent oil changes, should clean the engine out. Am I wrong?
Terry

I agree with what Terry says. A quart of MMO or ATF added with detergent oil at each oil change will clean the sludge a little with each oil change. The only way that I plan to remove an oil pan is with the engine removed and on the engine stand.

[J Franklin]

If you can not remove the pan and side cover to do proper maintenance, why not take it to a shop or dealer and have it done for you? You can supply the gaskets if they can't. My Ford dealer will do the job.

[tbirdtbird]

Originally Posted by J Franklin

If you can not remove the pan and side cover to do proper maintenance, why not take it to a shop or dealer and have it done for you? You can supply the gaskets if they can't. My Ford dealer will do the job.

Really!!??

[J Franklin]

Any good mechanic can do this job.