replaceable steel cylinder sleeves.

[scooder]

In answering another thread reminded me of the engine tucked away in the back of the shed. He's the type that had approx .040" thick hard sleeves fitted from the factory. The ones that you can reasonably easily pull out an replace in service. This engine had steel 3 ring pistons in him. I seem to recall from somewhere in the dark damp bit of my brain, that you can't use the normal aluminium pistons and cast iron rings, or is it just the ring material that's no good, Is this so? Anyone know?
I'm aware that you used to be able to get an oversize piston that will fit in the hole left after pulling the sleeve, +.085" or similar. But would like to know about what's needed to run the thin sleeves,'re piston/ring compatibility?
Many thanks.
Martin.

[Mart]

Mart, EGGE still list 82.5 and 83 thou over pistons, which I believe are the size to use if you pull the liners. No personal experience, just stuff I have read somewhere. Sorry, I don't know about liner/ring compatibility.

Is this a 239 motor?

Mart.

[Barn Junk]

Originally Posted by Mart

Mart, EGGE still list 82.5 and 83 thou over pistons, which I believe are the size to use if you pull the liners. No personal experience, just stuff I have read somewhere. Sorry, I don't know about liner/ring compatibility.

Is this a 239 motor?

Mart.

Seems like the large majority (maybe all) of the tin can sleeves were in the 221 CI motors but have a set of 82 1/2 OS 239 pistons but they were in a 8BA with out any groove at the top for the sleeve lip. Also have a 36 LB motor that has the tin can sleeves installed but may have been rebuilt that way and not factory installed.

[Ol' Ron]

The steel sleeves never went over very well. They were an tempt to curb oil burning. Today the easiest cure for this problem is to pull the sleeves and bore another 49+ thou and install stock standard 8BA pistons. Now there are some 3 3/16 engine with steel sleeves as well and they can be bored to 3 5/16 as well.. Speed way offered some inexpensive 3 ring hyperutectic pistons for this. A 258 ci engine with 81A heads make a fine street engine.

[scooder]

Thanks for replies, Mart, tis a 221. Thanks for the tip 're egge pistons.
Ron, I think it's probably gonna end up bored to 3 3/16". I'm interested in your comments here. You mentioned 8BA pistons, is there a preference for these over earlier 3 3/16 slugs? If so why is that? Also you mentioned 81A heads being good. Now this is both good and bad news for me. I have a pair of aluminium 81A heads in good order (both heads are marked 81A-6050-B, and Ford USA. So not strictly a pair, but I got two of them) I had pretty much made up my mind to sell them, they look real pretty, but are gonna be under the hood of my truck. And stock iron ones will do the same job. I cc'd them and they measured 80-82cc, again what makes the 81A head a good head?
Look forward to your reply,
many thanks.
Martin.

[Ol' Ron]

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Well the 8BA piston is an autothermic style that can be fir very tight (.001-.0015) No other reason OEM are very reasonable priced. I have a set of 81A that have aprox 70cc and i've milled them for .040" piston to head clearance. What do the iron heads measure?

[scooder]

The iron ones here measure I have here also come in at 80cc. I think the aluminium heads have never been cut or surfaced in any way. Not sure about the iron ones.
The aluminium ones when assembled on a block with gaskets have a uniform .125" clearance over the dome! So if I did use them, I'd like a good chunk planed off.
Martin.

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Well, I've built quite a few of these 40-1-2 221 engines, I didn't realize EGGE still had those .083 pistons. But for years I've removed the sleeves and bored another .045 to 3-3/16 and with using the A heads you can really feel the boost in low end torque in the seat of the pants with otherwise stock engine. PS I new a guy that had a bone stock 39 Merc, with the steel sleeves, it had cast iron pistons, the machine shop that built it wasn't familier with flatheads, they started to bore the sleeves for .030 pistons. Instead of chip coming out of the block it was a long steel string, they finished it at .030 with a Sunnen auto cyl hone. They built it with aluminum pistons that were heavier that the cast iron pistons. The engine had a vibration, they called me to check it out, I told them to pull the engine have the flywheel and pressure plate balanced. That wasn't out much so they disasembled the whole engine and had it balanced, the problem was the pistons so heavy the balancer had to take meat off the crank. Live and learn. Walt

[richard crow]

has any one ever just deglazed the sleevs & put new rings. what were the results?

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

Originally Posted by richard crow

has any one ever just deglazed the sleevs & put new rings. what were the results?

Richard, I'll let you know in a couple of weeks, I'm just finishing a 59AB. This engine has been around, The last builder installed the steel .090 wall tractor sleeves and bored it .060 That's 3-3/16+.060 The engine has been running good in a street rod for 10yr's. I don't think it had that many miles on kit, it still had the cross hatch almost up to top with no ring ridge. The reason he brought it to me all of a sudden it started to knock. Soon as I pull the heads I found the problem. Something had gone down one of the 3 carbs and pounded on the piston. I stripped the engine to nothing, the .010--.010 crank was perfect, just polished it. What ever got on the piston, I think it was 5/16 lock washer got into the manifold while someone was playing with the 3 carbs, there was a couple of pieces stuck in the top of the piston about 1/8in. long the rest of must of spit out the tail pipe. Anyways, it didn't hurt the sleeve, I install a new set of pistons, cast Edelbroke rings ect. I'll be running it on my test stand in a couple of weeks. lets you know. Walt - OH, I did just deglaze the cyl.

[scooder]

Walt, I did notice that the steel or iron or whatever they be made of, certainly felt quite a chunk lighter than the ally ones, haven't actually weighed one but it felt light.
Thanks again all.
Martin.

[Ol' Ron]

Walt I've never run across the cast iron pistons in one of these. Was that standard for these engines??

[scooder]

Ron, I thought they were steel not iron. I beet these out, and they took a serious amount of abuse to get them out. I literally had to break them to pieces in the holes. The ones that did come out in one piece had there crowns beaten properly concave, with only small cracks. With this resistance to breaking, I did wounder if they'd make good blower pistons, or nitro? I think if they were iron, they would have broke up fairly easy.
Martin.

[Lawrie]

I just Did one of those tin sleeve engines,the pistons were cast iron 3 rings,the sleeve came out after I ran some welds around them,I rang Egge yesterday and they have the .083 pistons in stock.
Lawrie

[4tford]

I have 4 NOS .083 pistons here I have no need of.

[Jefscoupe]

I just found this thread, I know it's old but, I found a set of the steel sleeves brand new in the Ford box at an old man's garage a friend and I were cleaning out.
I couldn't believe they were actually cylinder sleeves even though it said so right on the box.
And no. I didn't get them.