The Ford Barn

BILLF/TRF · 02-06-2013, 10:17 PM

I got into a discussion with the guys at coffee this morning and they claimed that the Model A not only came originally with the 2 blade fan but could also be purchased with a 4 blade fan.

My research from the Model A Ford Judging Standards (1997) book says that only the 2 bladed fan was used ( a double or later--in 1931 a single thickness 2 bladed type).

However in some publications, Volume 1 "How to restore Your Model A" published by MAFCA and the "Green Bible" refer to commercial vehicles and trucks using 4 bladed fans at low rpms.

Were these 4 bladed fans original Model A equipment or retrofitted from later years (1932 and up?). Thanks, Bill

pat in Santa Cruz · 02-06-2013, 11:32 PM

All Model A's and AA's came with 2 blade fans. The 4 blades were retrofitted from later years. But now it is known that old 4 blade fans fail too.

Joe K · 02-07-2013, 12:01 AM

My Model B engine on the Air Compressor came with a 4 blade fan. I'm thinking the 4 blade might have been developed late in the Model A period and applied as an accessory for those users concerned about overheating at low speeds.

I do know that Ford played around with the radiators on the AA trucks, with a so called "heavy duty" radiator available special order. Somewhere in the Service Bulletins they talk about a "mismatch" possible with this unit which will leave a gap between the hood and the radiator shroud.

I have only the reprint parts list (July 5, 1932) which was actually later than the Model A period. IIRC, this one shows a 4 blade fan available for use on the Model 18 (flathead.) Vince Falter shows us the Model A and B two blade fan (B-8600) only at http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/july1932ppl.htm

Joe K

Milton · 02-07-2013, 01:02 AM

Joe, I thought your avatar looked familiar. It was a compressor like yours, albeit not nearly as nice, that got me back into Model As.

Joe K · 02-07-2013, 01:31 AM

Gosh. EVERYONE thinks this is mine. Sorry to disappoint. It's a pix I scarfed off the net from an auction house.

I do have a Gordon-Smith unit set up on a Model B engine, but not nearly as nice as this. Mine has a pair of 8" dia by 5' long "receivers" below which double as frame. And whoever made it spent some time on it to hand fabricate a radiator shroud, upper hood segment and a bit of "firewall" to bring it all together.

I promise: when I get home (I'm on a field trip for my company) I will take a pix of it and put that up instead.

Do you know how hard it is to get a pix of a Model A something that someone doesn't have a handle on?

Joe K

SteveB31 · 02-07-2013, 09:10 AM

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I doubt that Gordon Smith compressors came with 4 blade fans, because the donor engines and frames for Gordon SMith compressors came from Model A Fords they purchased for $25 all around the region, and all those Model A's came with 2 blade fans. Now, many two blade fans were replaced with replacement fans, many of which were 4 blades. I have quite a bit of original literature from Gordon Smith, and they aggressively purchased used Model a Fords to get what they needed to convert them to air compressors.

Marco Tahtaras · 02-07-2013, 10:54 AM

The first Ford four blade (four cylinder) fan was introduced in 1933 for the model 46.

TinCup · 02-07-2013, 11:05 AM

Both diamond block motors we pulled off a farm in northwest Oklahoma had 4 blade fans. The flywheel housing was dated 1937.

Charlie Stephens · 02-07-2013, 11:24 AM

The '32 used the same 2 blade fan as the late '31. Although the same fan it had been renumbered to B-8600. In 1933 a four blade fan was released (46-8600). The later fan became the replacement fan for '28-'34 (as shown in the Green Bible). After existing stocks ran out every time a dealership replaced a fan on a Model A it was with a 4 blade fan and this explains the large number of 4 blade fans when compared with the small number of '33-'34 four cylinder vehicles (mostly trucks) produced.

Charlie Stephens

Marco Tahtaras · 02-07-2013, 11:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charlie Stephens

The '32 used the same 2 blade fan as the late '31. Although the same fan it had been renumbered to B-8600. In 1933 a four blade fan was released (46-8600). The later fan became the replacement fan for '28-'34 (as shown in the Green Bible). After existing stocks ran out every time a dealership replaced a fan on a Model A it was with a 4 blade fan and this explains the large number of 4 blade fans when compared with the small number of '33-'34 four cylinder vehicles (mostly trucks) produced.

Charlie Stephens

Keep in mind that this extended well into the 1950's which is likely when most were replaced.

Mark W. · 02-07-2013, 12:30 PM

While not exactly on subject - I've just started getting into A's and the original fan on my car is looking like it could fly away, or apart, at any time. Can anyone reccomend the 2-blade aluminum ones that are in the catalogs or are they more imported junk? - I like the original look as compared to a 4-blade fan - not that anyone at the local shows would know the difference but I will.

RHD · 02-07-2013, 02:36 PM

Two blade modern aluminum fan blades are excellent and give no problems. Every car I have restored (40 + -) has a new Al. blade fitted. I would never use an 83 year old fan blade.

Joe K · 02-07-2013, 04:48 PM

+1 on above, although for a while in the early 90s it seemed like the taper wasn't being held to spec. Owners reported having to either "remake" the taper (possible if one has a lathe) or simply "mash" it into place by overtightening the holding nut.

For this reason I have held off getting an aluminum replacement fan preferring instead the four blade mentioned or their close relative the two blade version. (which seems identical except for only one double ended blade held by four bolts.)

Those two blade pressed blade fans (not the late 31 single thickness airplane fan) must have been a popular aftermarket thing. I've found three from various sources.

Joe K

KansasV8 · 02-07-2013, 06:57 PM

http://

The Model A engines that were used on Gleaner-Baldwin combines all had 4 blade fans and the shroud was part of the radiator. These engine were purchased from Ford by Gleaner starting in 1929. They were used thru the 1943 production.

Mike V. Florida · 02-07-2013, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark W.

While not exactly on subject - I've just started getting into A's and the original fan on my car is looking like it could fly away, or apart, at any time. Can anyone reccomend the 2-blade aluminum ones that are in the catalogs or are they more imported junk? - I like the original look as compared to a 4-blade fan - not that anyone at the local shows would know the difference but I will.

Remove as quickly as possible!!!

BarracudaBoy · 02-08-2013, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark W.

While not exactly on subject - I've just started getting into A's and the original fan on my car is looking like it could fly away, or apart, at any time. Can anyone reccomend the 2-blade aluminum ones that are in the catalogs or are they more imported junk? - I like the original look as compared to a 4-blade fan - not that anyone at the local shows would know the difference but I will.

What Mike said. Word is that the original steel fans are prone to cracking and when they let go they take the radiator and hood with them.

Mark W. · 02-08-2013, 12:16 PM

Thanks guys - I am going to replace it before running the car again but wanted to make sure the aluminum one was not junk - I know there is a really nice 4-blade replacement available but I want to keep the car looking as original as can be - SAFE, but original.

Purdy Swoft · 02-08-2013, 12:21 PM

The old model 46 or 33-34 style four blade fans are just as dangerous as the old original two blade fans. I've had two of the old four blade fans to sling a blade, one took out a good radiator and damaged a nice new hood. The new aluminum original look alike fans are really good . I bought my first aluminum look alike fan from Snyders in the late seventies and it still performs flawlessly. I bought one in the ninties from another vender and it was out of balance. Hopefully the out of balance fans that some sold are off the market by now. The last one that I bought was already painted black and had a sticker that stated that it was balanced.

Tom Wesenberg · 02-08-2013, 01:28 PM

There was a period some years ago that the blades weren't straight at times on the aluminum fans. I believe the problem has been corrected because all the aluminum fans I've checked for the past 4 years have been excellent in fit and balance.

02-06-2013, 10:17 PM	#1
BILLF/TRF Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Thief River Falls, MN Posts: 155	2 blade fan I got into a discussion with the guys at coffee this morning and they claimed that the Model A not only came originally with the 2 blade fan but could also be purchased with a 4 blade fan. My research from the Model A Ford Judging Standards (1997) book says that only the 2 bladed fan was used ( a double or later--in 1931 a single thickness 2 bladed type). However in some publications, Volume 1 "How to restore Your Model A" published by MAFCA and the "Green Bible" refer to commercial vehicles and trucks using 4 bladed fans at low rpms. Were these 4 bladed fans original Model A equipment or retrofitted from later years (1932 and up?). Thanks, Bill

02-06-2013, 11:32 PM	#2
pat in Santa Cruz Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: santa cruz, calif Posts: 2,011	Re: 2 blade fan All Model A's and AA's came with 2 blade fans. The 4 blades were retrofitted from later years. But now it is known that old 4 blade fans fail too.

02-07-2013, 12:01 AM	#3
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: 2 blade fan My Model B engine on the Air Compressor came with a 4 blade fan. I'm thinking the 4 blade might have been developed late in the Model A period and applied as an accessory for those users concerned about overheating at low speeds. I do know that Ford played around with the radiators on the AA trucks, with a so called "heavy duty" radiator available special order. Somewhere in the Service Bulletins they talk about a "mismatch" possible with this unit which will leave a gap between the hood and the radiator shroud. I have only the reprint parts list (July 5, 1932) which was actually later than the Model A period. IIRC, this one shows a 4 blade fan available for use on the Model 18 (flathead.) Vince Falter shows us the Model A and B two blade fan (B-8600) only at http://www.fordgarage.com/pages/july1932ppl.htm Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

02-07-2013, 01:31 AM	#5
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: 2 blade fan Gosh. EVERYONE thinks this is mine. Sorry to disappoint. It's a pix I scarfed off the net from an auction house. I do have a Gordon-Smith unit set up on a Model B engine, but not nearly as nice as this. Mine has a pair of 8" dia by 5' long "receivers" below which double as frame. And whoever made it spent some time on it to hand fabricate a radiator shroud, upper hood segment and a bit of "firewall" to bring it all together. I promise: when I get home (I'm on a field trip for my company) I will take a pix of it and put that up instead. Do you know how hard it is to get a pix of a Model A something that someone doesn't have a handle on? Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

02-07-2013, 09:10 AM	#6
SteveB31 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Englewood, Colorado Posts: 1,372	Re: 2 blade fan Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I doubt that Gordon Smith compressors came with 4 blade fans, because the donor engines and frames for Gordon SMith compressors came from Model A Fords they purchased for $25 all around the region, and all those Model A's came with 2 blade fans. Now, many two blade fans were replaced with replacement fans, many of which were 4 blades. I have quite a bit of original literature from Gordon Smith, and they aggressively purchased used Model a Fords to get what they needed to convert them to air compressors.

02-07-2013, 10:54 AM	#7
Marco Tahtaras Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 3,099	Re: 2 blade fan The first Ford four blade (four cylinder) fan was introduced in 1933 for the model 46. __________________ http://www.abarnyard.com/

02-07-2013, 11:05 AM	#8
TinCup Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: OKC / Tonkawa, Ok. Posts: 1,977	Re: 2 blade fan Both diamond block motors we pulled off a farm in northwest Oklahoma had 4 blade fans. The flywheel housing was dated 1937. __________________ Oklahoma City Model A Restorers Group.

02-07-2013, 11:24 AM	#9
Charlie Stephens Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 7,034	Re: 2 blade fan The '32 used the same 2 blade fan as the late '31. Although the same fan it had been renumbered to B-8600. In 1933 a four blade fan was released (46-8600). The later fan became the replacement fan for '28-'34 (as shown in the Green Bible). After existing stocks ran out every time a dealership replaced a fan on a Model A it was with a 4 blade fan and this explains the large number of 4 blade fans when compared with the small number of '33-'34 four cylinder vehicles (mostly trucks) produced. Charlie Stephens

02-07-2013, 12:30 PM	#11
Mark W. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maine Posts: 342	Re: 2 blade fan While not exactly on subject - I've just started getting into A's and the original fan on my car is looking like it could fly away, or apart, at any time. Can anyone reccomend the 2-blade aluminum ones that are in the catalogs or are they more imported junk? - I like the original look as compared to a 4-blade fan - not that anyone at the local shows would know the difference but I will.

02-07-2013, 02:36 PM	#12
RHD Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: New Zealand Posts: 670	Re: 2 blade fan Two blade modern aluminum fan blades are excellent and give no problems. Every car I have restored (40 + -) has a new Al. blade fitted. I would never use an 83 year old fan blade. __________________ R.H.D. Author of Model 'A' Ford technical manuals. Supplier of good original RHD parts.

02-07-2013, 04:48 PM	#13
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: 2 blade fan +1 on above, although for a while in the early 90s it seemed like the taper wasn't being held to spec. Owners reported having to either "remake" the taper (possible if one has a lathe) or simply "mash" it into place by overtightening the holding nut. For this reason I have held off getting an aluminum replacement fan preferring instead the four blade mentioned or their close relative the two blade version. (which seems identical except for only one double ended blade held by four bolts.) Those two blade pressed blade fans (not the late 31 single thickness airplane fan) must have been a popular aftermarket thing. I've found three from various sources. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

02-07-2013, 06:57 PM	#14
KansasV8 Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 44	Re: 2 blade fan http://The Model A engines that were used on Gleaner-Baldwin combines all had 4 blade fans and the shroud was part of the radiator. These engine were purchased from Ford by Gleaner starting in 1929. They were used thru the 1943 production.

02-08-2013, 12:16 PM	#17
Mark W. Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Maine Posts: 342	Re: 2 blade fan Thanks guys - I am going to replace it before running the car again but wanted to make sure the aluminum one was not junk - I know there is a really nice 4-blade replacement available but I want to keep the car looking as original as can be - SAFE, but original.

02-08-2013, 12:21 PM	#18
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: 2 blade fan The old model 46 or 33-34 style four blade fans are just as dangerous as the old original two blade fans. I've had two of the old four blade fans to sling a blade, one took out a good radiator and damaged a nice new hood. The new aluminum original look alike fans are really good . I bought my first aluminum look alike fan from Snyders in the late seventies and it still performs flawlessly. I bought one in the ninties from another vender and it was out of balance. Hopefully the out of balance fans that some sold are off the market by now. The last one that I bought was already painted black and had a sticker that stated that it was balanced.

02-08-2013, 01:28 PM	#19
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: 2 blade fan There was a period some years ago that the blades weren't straight at times on the aluminum fans. I believe the problem has been corrected because all the aluminum fans I've checked for the past 4 years have been excellent in fit and balance.