fuel pumps

[Alaska Jim]

will a fuel pump from an early Y-block , 239, 256, etc, fit all the other y-block engines, such as the 272, 292, and 312, or are there any differences in pressure and volume output? any information appreciated. Thanks, Jim

[darrell]

no 54 pumps will fit.if you have a 55 239 0r 256 truck engine they fit but no 54.

[dmsfrr]

A '54 fuel pump apparently has a different style actuating arm. Shown in photo # 1
The other two are '55+ examples.
.

[55blacktie]

FE pumps fit as well.

[mercman from oz]

1955 onwards Fuel Pumps - posted by dmsfrr

[Daves55Sedan]

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The 1954 car 239 y-block pump will not fit later Y-blocks. Notice how much smaller the timing chain casting is. It has a smaller arm.
You should be able to use a 1954/1955 TRUCK 239 fuel pump in a later Y-block (272/292/312). The fuel pumps for these engines are interchangable.
The new fuel pumps offered by most of the repro parts suppliers have a higher output pressure than did the OEM pump, but I have never seen the need to put in a regulator to hold back the pressure going into a Ford EBU, Holley 2100 or Holley 2110, ECG, bugsprayer type carbs ('54 thru '56) and you probably don't need a regulator for the '57 and later carb designs either.
However, the new pumps for the 215/223 I block 6 will overflow a Holley 1904 one-bbl carb immediately. One must use a regulator (which won't last long), or install a fuel bypass line back to the gas tank.

[Daves55Sedan]

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, the '54 car 239 pump installs.....what we would think of as upside down, if I'm not confused with another engine.

[scicala]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, the '54 car 239 pump installs.....what we would think of as upside down, if I'm not confused with another engine.

Yes, I know on the '54 Mercury 256, the fuel pump has the vacuum pump on the bottom, and glass bowl on the top. The opposite of later Y-Blocks.

Sal

[Crankster]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

The new fuel pumps offered by most of the repro parts suppliers have a higher output pressure than did the OEM pump, but I have never seen the need to put in a regulator to hold back the pressure going into a Ford EBU, Holley 2100 or Holley 2110, ECG, bugsprayer type carbs ('54 thru '56) and you probably don't need a regulator for the '57 and later carb designs.

I don't believe they should be selling stock fuel pumps out of specification to begin with, and then requiring the end user to spend more money to throttle it back with a regulator.

The FE style reproduction I bought from Mac's pushed over 8 psi, I never installed it until a couple years after I bought it, or I would have sent it back. Almost twice the pressure spec.

That's way too much pressure for a 2100 for sure, the only way the fuel height spec could be achieved was setting the float all the way down as far as it could go. That ain't right, and seems like a great way to eventually cause severe flooding, or worse. A Mechanic's vacuum gauge will test fuel pump pressure output very quickly and easily.

[Alaska Jim]

Thanks for the information guys, I am going to try and attach a photo of the pump I have. I am looking for another one. I see one listed on ebay as being for a 256 truck. and it looks like the one I have. the one I have was on a 272 eng. when I bought the car, but it has failed and I am looking for a replacement. I am aware that the FE pumps fit, and I have been using one for a few years with no problems, but now all of a sudden I am having fuel pressure problems. even with a regulator. I have tried different float levels, new floats, different types of needles and seats, new holley low pressure regulator, new pressure gauge, new FE fuel pump. I have tested the fuel pump , and it puts out 7 psi while cranking the eng. ( the FE pump) volume is also good. I have set the fuel pressure down as low as 1.5 psi. the eng runs good carbs work well, until I shut of the eng. then the carbs start flooding out the venturi's. most of the time it is the front carb that floods but the others also occasionally will also flood. the fuel pressure gauge actually shows an increase in pressure even with the eng. shut off. I have even installed insulator spacers between the carb and intake. the heat crossover is plugged. I thought if I could find a fuel pump that is like the original , it may cure my problem. my eng. is a 272 with an edelbrock 3x2 set up the end carbs are 8BA "94"'s and the center carb is an egc 6. this set up ran well with an offenhouser manifold, and all the problems started when I changed manifolds. I think that is just a coincidence

[Alaska Jim]

link to the pump on ebay. https://www.ebay.com/itm/33406092464...uid=d9c11f56aa

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Crankster

I don't believe they should be selling stock fuel pumps out of specification to begin with, and then requiring the end user to spend more money to throttle it back with a regulator.

But they are and there's nothing you can do but buy the repro. Same thing goes for the substandard repro electrical components china is producing with zero quality control. There is simply no competition. It is a monopoly.

Originally Posted by Crankster

The FE style reproduction I bought from Mac's pushed over 8 psi.

The pump for the FE is the exact same pump for the Y-block. Last I saw them advertised as having a max output of 7 psi, but that is way higher than the OEM pump output.

Originally Posted by Crankster

That's way too much pressure for a 2100 for sure, the only way the fuel height spec could be achieved was setting the float all the way down as far as it could go.

It's hard to believe that works unless you are gunning the engine to keep up with the incoming amount of gas. Regardless of where the float is set, the incoming fuel pressure will overwhelm the float, submerging it and causing engine flooding within seconds after starting the engine.
Thankfully my old style ('54 thru '56) Load-o-matic bug-sprayer carbs do actually handle the higher pressure without a regulator.

[Daves55Sedan]

Alaska Jim. If you are sure your engine is a 272, then any Y-block 272/292/312 and FE fuel pump will fit properly in the timing chain casting and operate as normal (except it will have excess pressure due to the design of the repro pump.
The 8BA carbs were used at the tail end of the flathead era ('52, '53)? But those should not have a problem with the extra pressure as they are very similar to the later Ford EBU and Holley 2100/Holley 2110, ECG series carbs (1954 thru 1956).
I would think that having 3 x 2 intake would also help to curtail some of the extra pressure you shouldn't need from a pump delivering 7psi.

[Alaska Jim]

Daves55Sedan, do you think that the pump in the link will work on a 272? It is advertised as being for a 1955 truck 256, but it looks identical to the pump that failed that was on my car when I bought it. I am sure my engine is a 272 by all the casting #'s and letters. It does have C1TE heads and timing cover on it though. It is the engine in my avatar

[Crankster]

Originally Posted by Daves55Sedan

It's hard to believe that works unless you are gunning the engine to keep up with the incoming amount of gas. Regardless of where the float is set, the incoming fuel pressure will overwhelm the float, submerging it and causing engine flooding within seconds after starting the engine.

Well it "works" fine, up until it doesn't, I expect. The only thing preventing the situation you describe, is the tiny viton tipped needle and seat. I've wondered if some of the car fires that pop up on various forums are a direct result of these defective fuel pumps.

Correct fuel pressure & volume is really important to setting up a carbureted engine. Regardless of manufacturer, always check fuel pump output pressure & volume for correct specification at installation and during Tune-Up.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by Alaska Jim

Daves55Sedan, do you think that the pump in the link will work on a 272? It is advertised as being for a 1955 truck 256, but it looks identical to the pump that failed that was on my car when I bought it. I am sure my engine is a 272 by all the casting #'s and letters. It does have C1TE heads and timing cover on it though. It is the engine in my avatar

Just by looking at your engine in the enlarged photos in your profile I can tell that it is a of the 272/292 variety and may have early '60's 292 heads. But the timing cover is a 272/292 casting.
Looking at the photos in dmssfr's post, the first picture is for a 239 car Y-block. It will not fit your engine. The 2nd and 3rd photos are for a 272/292/312/FE engine and those two pumps are really the same, both having the dual-action feature (fuel/vacuum), but the third picture shows the pump with the integral fuel filter at the bottom. Either of these pumps (in the 2nd & 3rd photos) will fit your application.
It is likely the supplier will offer you the one in the 2nd photo. In most recent times, the pumps with the integral fuel filter have only been available for the 223 I-block 6-cyl engine of the same era.

[Alaska Jim]

Thanks to all of you for your help and information, it gives me more to go on in my efforts to straighten out my fuel system. Thank you all.-- Jim

[paul2748]

If you have an old U.S.A (or Canadian and maybe Mexican) made pump that has gone bad, they can be rebuilt. There are a number of reputable rebuilder's out there.

[Crankster]

I'll probably jinx myself for saying this, but I got tired of crappy aftermarket pumps and bought an NOS (Carter) fuel pump w/ glass bowl & filter for my Y. Output pressure 5 psi, go figure. The old school pumps aren't supposed to play well with modern gasoline, but it has worked well for several years now. If or when it goes bad there are a few rebuilders out there.

[dmsfrr]

Deleted
.

[flatrod]

So it sounds like there are different pressures with different pumps. The engine runs fine with pressure set at 2 pounds, but when its shut off the pressure goes up to as much as 4.5 pounds, then one or two of the carbs fill up and starts to flood over. What is causing the fuel pressure to rise without the engine running?? Longest hose from the fuel pump to regulator is about 9 inches, I can't see that it is ballooning under pressure causing flooding. What is causing fuel pressure to rise when not running??

[dmsfrr]

Originally Posted by flatrod

... What is causing fuel pressure to rise when not running??

Assuming the fuel lines above the fuel pump to the carbs are all metal...
I'll guess it's heat soak.
When the car stops moving and the engine is shut off it loses two primary cooling methods.
The added heat from coolant not moving thru the engine and lack of air flow around the engine and even the lack of flow thru the fuel line could cause additional heat buildup in those fuel lines. The fuel trapped between the fuel pump & carb will attempt to expand an additional amount, increasing the pressure.
.

[Daves55Sedan]

Originally Posted by flatrod

So it sounds like there are different pressures with different pumps. What is causing fuel pressure to rise when not running??

If you buy a NEW fuel pump for a 272/292/312/FE engine, it will have a maximum output of about 7psi, regardless if you get the most common pump without the integral filter or not. The factory original pump had a much lower output pressure.
Same thing goes for the 223 I-block 6 pump, except it is a different pump and does not fit the Y-blocks. These also have a high output pressure.
Different engine manufacturers have different pump designs and output pressures to suit their overall fuel delivery system, including intake.
Having only ONE of the same type carb you are using makes me wonder if you have an auxillary electric pump back by your gas tank in the stuck "on" position that is feeding gas past the mechanical pump when the engine is shut off.
292V8-2.JPG

[Alaska Jim]

Not heat soak. I have installed spacers under the carbs. does not matter if the car runs 2 min, or 30 min. fuel pressure rises as soon as the eng. is shut off. there is no aux electric fuel pump. as I said before this combination ran for almost 5 years before this problem came up, and before I installed the spacers. I just installed them, in desperation. I did not think that was the problem, but I was willing to try it. car never runs more than 170 on the hwy. , and cools down to about 160 at an idle after it is warmed up. mechanical gauge does not increase more than about 10* at most after shut down. vehicle has no fenders , or hood, fan is 3/4 of an inch from rad. core. very doubtful it is a heat problem. Thanks for all of the suggestions .

[Alaska Jim]

Dave I am going to get an old rebuilt pump for a 55 Ford, and see if it will help. nothing to loose at this point.

[KULTULZ]

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- post deleted -

[oldbird55]

new pumps are junk from china,If you have a old pump made in usa rebuild it.They are so bad some venders won't sell them.

[Alaska Jim]

No ethanol fuel in Alaska. I understand the deal about heat soak, but this is happening even with a cold engine, even if it is only run 2 minutes. I do not believe that the eng, gets warm enough to cause a heat soak problem in that short of time . the intake manifold is not even warm to the touch. Like I said. this car ran with this configuration for 5 years, until I changed from an Offenhauser, to an Edelbrock intake manifold. both 3x2 intakes, just different manufactures. I also know that these carbs do not like press. over 2.5-3.0 psi. I have tried 2 different holley low pressure fuel regulators and 2 different gauges with the regulators set as low as 1.5 psi. I do not really want to re-engineer the whole car and plumb in a return line,

[KULTULZ]

- post deleted -

[Daves55Sedan]

Jim, I would have suggested getting an original Y-block pump and rebuilding it, but the repo parts suppliers are not offering Y-block pump rebuild kits. They do sell flathead pump rebuild kits, but I don't think those will work for Y-block pumps.
I do know that the new pumps made in china have two valves in the bottom, one of which I believe is a check and the other a bypass, not sure. But if the bypass valve malfunctions, you could be pushing tons of extra volume up to the carb. And I can tell ya, those valves in the bottom don't always last very long on the china made pumps.
As far as building a bypass system back to the fuel tank, that can be complicated, because you need to install an orifice in the line heading up near the carb inlet that is the right amount to cause enough back-pressure to fill the bypass line. If that orifice isn't small enough, you may still have an overflow at the carb.
The worst thing about a bypass line, is you need to take out the gas tank, drain it and dry it out enough that you can weld a piece of tubing on at the top rear of the tank that will also clear the car frame and trunk floor.

[Alaska Jim]

Thank you everyone for your contributions. I have all winter to hash this out. there is no ethanol fuel in this part , or northern Alaska.

[Gene F]

Originally Posted by dmsfrr

A '54 fuel pump apparently has a different style actuating arm. Shown in photo # 1
The other two are '55+ examples.
.

Where do you get a filter for #3? I ordered one of the paper filter ones, but it does not fit.

[KULTULZ]

... the repo parts suppliers are not offering Y-block pump rebuild kits

Try Here - https://www.then-now-auto.com/

[KULTULZ]

Originally Posted by Gene F

Where do you get a filter for #3? I ordered one of the paper filter ones, but it does not fit.

What year? You show 54 FORD.

What the man said about WIX is truth. MOTORCRAFT is made by PUROLATOR to FORD specs. Good filter, but WIX is much better quality.