The Ford Barn

JtownJoe · 10-23-2015, 10:10 PM

Just to post a follow up on my toe in / camber post from few weeks ago: have toe in right at 1/8" or slightly under but in a very careful camber check found out the left (passenger ) wheel has 13/16 to 7/8 camber, Top leaning out, at top to bottom of 19" rim and right (drivers) side only has 1/4" camber.
I'm considering taking the axel (will have to remove it) to local heavy truck garage to see if they can correct it to near the passenger side dimension.
any thoughts on this being worth the effort & expense?
PS: I have some past experience with the garage since I have our company trucks serviced & repaired by them. Also a great source for pressing wheel studs to drums.

Mike V. Florida · 10-23-2015, 10:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtownJoe

any thoughts on this being worth the effort & expense?

Of course get it done! There are specifications for a reason. Steering, smooth driving, tire wear are all affected by the alignment.

I say go for it!

Tom Wesenberg · 10-23-2015, 11:06 PM

I think it was Kevin in NJ that posted pictures of cones and rods in the perch and kingpin holes to check the axle alignment. Hopefully the truck shops will have those tools also.

tbirdtbird · 10-24-2015, 12:05 AM

is this a RHD car?

JtownJoe · 10-24-2015, 08:49 AM

Standard American made model. The reference to left & right was as viewed from the front of the car looking at the suspension / axel.

katy · 10-24-2015, 11:03 AM

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Before you pull the axle out, check to see how the brake drums lines up w/the backing plates. If'n one or the other doesn't line up you probably have a bent spindle.

Tacoma Bob · 10-24-2015, 03:02 PM

My understanding is the big truck shops can bend with the axle in the car. Might want to call them first.

1931 flamingo · 10-24-2015, 03:04 PM

As Tacoma Bob stated. Axle should not have to come out to do what's needed. FWIW

Paul in CT

Keith True · 10-24-2015, 03:18 PM

First,make sure it's not just a bad kingpin,bent spindle,or a wallowed out kingpin hole.

Tom Wesenberg · 10-25-2015, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JtownJoe

Standard American made model. The reference to left & right was as viewed from the front of the car looking at the suspension / axel.

The established RIGHT and LEFT is with the person sitting in the seat. So the American cars with the driver seated on the left, the generator is on the left side of the engine and the brake light is on the left.

British cars with the driver seated on the right, the generator is still on the left, but the tail light is on the right.

When you order parts it's important to use the established RIGHT and LEFT, and the part number may have a suffix of "L" or "R" to indicate which side of the car the part is for. Sometimes parts are numbered with the even number being on one side of the car and the odd number being on the other side of the car.

JtownJoe · 10-25-2015, 08:37 AM

THANX everyone, for all the info & suggestions.
I replaced the kingpins about 3 years ago and all is tight with no slop in the wheels and just replaced the front drums with cast ones 3 weeks ago and didn't see any problems with the backing plate to brake shoe relationship. Although I couldn't rule out a bent spindle I didn't notice anything unusual when I did the kingpins.
I will certainly speak to the guys at the truck garage before I do anything I, of course, don't want to tear front end apart if I can avoid it!
I'm thinking I may be able to make a tracing of the axle onto a cardboard template and once reversed any change in the radius might be visible?
Also Tom, thanx for the info on the accepted standard L v/s R orientation heads up. I'm in the bldg. supply business and there is no industry standard established on L & R hand for doors, varies by manufacturer & region, causes a lot of unneeded grief in our industry!
I'll post results on what I find out and what it took to correct it.

tbirdtbird · 10-25-2015, 09:56 AM

Tom,
your comment,
"The established RIGHT and LEFT is with the person sitting in the seat."
is what I was driving at in post #4
Mixing up established conventions can cause all manner of grief in terms of communications about problems, getting the correct parts, etc.

Another example we had here a while back we had a poster that started numbering his cylinders from the firewall, meaning the rear most plug he called #1. Worse, several other posters agreed with him. Good luck ever trying to troubleshoot that engine.

If you face another person, their left hand is on your right. Does that mean you call their left hand their right hand?

oops this requires logic

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-25-2015, 12:26 PM

T-Bird,
STUDY yourself in a mirror, before you have had COFFEE! You'll be MESSED up all day! Seems I "remember" that some U.K. cars counted cylinder numbering from the FIREWALL?????
Bill W.

Keith True · 10-25-2015, 12:33 PM

You can really get mixed up on firing orders between makers.Chevy # 1 was drivers side,front,Ford was passenger side front,International was drivers side rear,some count back and forth across the engine,some go down one side then down the other.The local junkyard has a lot of problems trying to answer questions from folks not familiar with accepted method of right or left.When I worked there in 76 they would ask,man side or woman side?Most guys understood that.They still do it today,but nowadays they get yelled at sometimes.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-25-2015, 10:02 PM

For years, Sacramento Vintage showed a Flathead V-8 wiring pic, with # 1 on the WRONG bank!! Ted fell for it & I had to go over & get his SPAGHETTI straightened out. With a "CRAB" cap, you can't imagine how he had it fanangled around, I LAFFED 'til I was crying! EVERY wire, except 2 was crossed OVER the cap!
And for sure, it wouldn't start & by time he called me, he had taken off the timing cover to see if the gears were RIGHT!!! We threw the timing cover back on with some BLACK Silicone Rubber, shortened a bunch of wires & it started RIGHT UP! Ted said, "Bill, I thought something was WRONG, I had to keep going back to CHEEP AUTO PARTS, for more bulk plug wire"!
Bill W.

Jerry in Shasta · 10-25-2015, 10:40 PM

Find a place that does motor home front ends they can and would rather
do it in the car.

You don't want to watch, the amount they flex the axle will scare you!

JB

Fullraceflathead · 10-25-2015, 11:03 PM

I would make sure the spindle is not bent. I think a spindle would bend long before the front axle would get bent. In fact any force that would bend the axle would have to come through the spindle first, unless the axle itself hit something very solid.

katy · 10-26-2015, 09:52 AM

A lot of front axles were bent by being pulled w/a chain around the axle.

BILL WILLIAMSON · 10-26-2015, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jerry in Shasta

Find a place that does motor home front ends they can and would rather
do it in the car.

You don't want to watch, the amount they flex the axle will scare you!

JB

Right on, Jerry,
Once "they" had a bunch of stuff hooked up on Teds' axle, jacked & jacked, suddenly something "gave" & the axle gained a slight "S" shape!!!--He had to replace the axle! This was done at a reputable front end shop.
Bill W.

J Witt · 10-26-2015, 04:53 PM

When I was racing, I had several Ford vans for support vehicles and they all had to have the front ends jiggered to drive well. As I recall the front end shop had a hydraulic bender that could bend the front I-beams to correct the camber. I never wanted to watch, but the guy knew his business. The later vans had adjustable ends on the kingpins to set the camber.

John

10-23-2015, 11:06 PM	#3
Tom Wesenberg Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mpls, MN Posts: 27,582	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up I think it was Kevin in NJ that posted pictures of cones and rods in the perch and kingpin holes to check the axle alignment. Hopefully the truck shops will have those tools also.

10-24-2015, 08:49 AM	#5
JtownJoe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 342	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up Standard American made model. The reference to left & right was as viewed from the front of the car looking at the suspension / axel.

10-24-2015, 11:03 AM	#6
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Before you pull the axle out, check to see how the brake drums lines up w/the backing plates. If'n one or the other doesn't line up you probably have a bent spindle. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

10-24-2015, 03:02 PM	#7
Tacoma Bob Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Tacoma, WA Posts: 1,025	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up My understanding is the big truck shops can bend with the axle in the car. Might want to call them first.

10-24-2015, 03:04 PM	#8
1931 flamingo Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: new britain,ct 06052 Posts: 9,390	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up As Tacoma Bob stated. Axle should not have to come out to do what's needed. FWIW Paul in CT

10-23-2015, 10:10 PM	#1
JtownJoe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 342	Toe IN -camber follow up Just to post a follow up on my toe in / camber post from few weeks ago: have toe in right at 1/8" or slightly under but in a very careful camber check found out the left (passenger ) wheel has 13/16 to 7/8 camber, Top leaning out, at top to bottom of 19" rim and right (drivers) side only has 1/4" camber. I'm considering taking the axel (will have to remove it) to local heavy truck garage to see if they can correct it to near the passenger side dimension. any thoughts on this being worth the effort & expense? PS: I have some past experience with the garage since I have our company trucks serviced & repaired by them. Also a great source for pressing wheel studs to drums.

10-24-2015, 12:05 AM	#4
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up is this a RHD car? __________________ '31 180A

10-24-2015, 03:18 PM	#9
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,989	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up First,make sure it's not just a bad kingpin,bent spindle,or a wallowed out kingpin hole.

10-25-2015, 08:37 AM	#11
JtownJoe Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Johnstown, PA Posts: 342	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up THANX everyone, for all the info & suggestions. I replaced the kingpins about 3 years ago and all is tight with no slop in the wheels and just replaced the front drums with cast ones 3 weeks ago and didn't see any problems with the backing plate to brake shoe relationship. Although I couldn't rule out a bent spindle I didn't notice anything unusual when I did the kingpins. I will certainly speak to the guys at the truck garage before I do anything I, of course, don't want to tear front end apart if I can avoid it! I'm thinking I may be able to make a tracing of the axle onto a cardboard template and once reversed any change in the radius might be visible? Also Tom, thanx for the info on the accepted standard L v/s R orientation heads up. I'm in the bldg. supply business and there is no industry standard established on L & R hand for doors, varies by manufacturer & region, causes a lot of unneeded grief in our industry! I'll post results on what I find out and what it took to correct it.

10-25-2015, 09:56 AM	#12
tbirdtbird BANNED Join Date: May 2012 Location: inside your RAM Posts: 3,134	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up Tom, your comment, "The established RIGHT and LEFT is with the person sitting in the seat." is what I was driving at in post #4 Mixing up established conventions can cause all manner of grief in terms of communications about problems, getting the correct parts, etc. Another example we had here a while back we had a poster that started numbering his cylinders from the firewall, meaning the rear most plug he called #1. Worse, several other posters agreed with him. Good luck ever trying to troubleshoot that engine. If you face another person, their left hand is on your right. Does that mean you call their left hand their right hand? oops this requires logic __________________ '31 180A Last edited by tbirdtbird; 10-25-2015 at 11:10 PM.

10-25-2015, 12:26 PM	#13
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up T-Bird, STUDY yourself in a mirror, before you have had COFFEE! You'll be MESSED up all day! Seems I "remember" that some U.K. cars counted cylinder numbering from the FIREWALL????? Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

10-25-2015, 12:33 PM	#14
Keith True Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Epping N.H. Posts: 2,989	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up You can really get mixed up on firing orders between makers.Chevy # 1 was drivers side,front,Ford was passenger side front,International was drivers side rear,some count back and forth across the engine,some go down one side then down the other.The local junkyard has a lot of problems trying to answer questions from folks not familiar with accepted method of right or left.When I worked there in 76 they would ask,man side or woman side?Most guys understood that.They still do it today,but nowadays they get yelled at sometimes.

10-25-2015, 10:02 PM	#15
BILL WILLIAMSON Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: FRESNO, CA Posts: 12,560	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up For years, Sacramento Vintage showed a Flathead V-8 wiring pic, with # 1 on the WRONG bank!! Ted fell for it & I had to go over & get his SPAGHETTI straightened out. With a "CRAB" cap, you can't imagine how he had it fanangled around, I LAFFED 'til I was crying! EVERY wire, except 2 was crossed OVER the cap! And for sure, it wouldn't start & by time he called me, he had taken off the timing cover to see if the gears were RIGHT!!! We threw the timing cover back on with some BLACK Silicone Rubber, shortened a bunch of wires & it started RIGHT UP! Ted said, "Bill, I thought something was WRONG, I had to keep going back to CHEEP AUTO PARTS, for more bulk plug wire"! Bill W. __________________ "THE ASSISTANT GURU OF STUFF"

10-25-2015, 10:40 PM	#16
Jerry in Shasta Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: (Old)Shasta (Redding) CA Posts: 385	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up Find a place that does motor home front ends they can and would rather do it in the car. You don't want to watch, the amount they flex the axle will scare you! JB

10-25-2015, 11:03 PM	#17
Fullraceflathead Senior Member Join Date: May 2012 Location: Chillicothe, Missouri Posts: 1,176	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up I would make sure the spindle is not bent. I think a spindle would bend long before the front axle would get bent. In fact any force that would bend the axle would have to come through the spindle first, unless the axle itself hit something very solid. __________________ "If I asked people what they wanted they would have said faster horses." -Henry Ford "Primitive technology is not a design flaw" 1928 Ford Model A Roadster Pickup 1930 Gordon Smith Air Compressor 1941 Willy's Pickup 1960 Thunderbird-For Sale 1964 Buick Riviera 2x4 425 1965 Pontiac GTO, 455 Super Duty 2004 Dodge Ram SRT-10, V-10 Viper 1977 Charger Jet Boat,460 Ford,Jacuzzi Jet Front Engine Nostalgia Dragster,Supercharged 296 "Fullrace Flathead" Ford Engine Build up on DVD ask

10-26-2015, 09:52 AM	#18
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up A lot of front axles were bent by being pulled w/a chain around the axle. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!

10-26-2015, 04:53 PM	#20
J Witt Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Acworth GA Posts: 534	Re: Toe IN -camber follow up When I was racing, I had several Ford vans for support vehicles and they all had to have the front ends jiggered to drive well. As I recall the front end shop had a hydraulic bender that could bend the front I-beams to correct the camber. I never wanted to watch, but the guy knew his business. The later vans had adjustable ends on the kingpins to set the camber. John __________________ Houston, Tranquility base here. The Eagle has landed.