Starter rebuild - brush question

[cederholm]

Hi guys,

I'm rebuilding my 1952 starter. I don't know the working condition of the starter but it looks good. The armature is clean and I see no signs of heavy wear on the bendex , gears or bearings. The cover band was missing and as a result the springs are rustier than I would like. Since I had to order new springs and band, I thought it wise to order new brushes and bearings too.

When they arrive I'll compare the old brushes with the new to see how much life the old ones have, but assuming I have to replace them, how are the positive leads attached? They seem to be soldered. If they are soldered, whats the best way to de-solder the old ones without harming anything?

Thanks for any advice.
~ Carl

[3twinridges]

I have rebuilt several starters and new springs and brushes (along with new bushings) make a huge improvement. You need a heavy duty soldering gun, not the small one you might use around your wiring harness. You need a lot of heat, and a torch is too aggressive around the field coil tape, will melt it.

JB

[Crankster]

Like an American Beauty iron?

[tubman]

Originally Posted by Crankster

Like an American Beauty iron?

I have been looking for a heavy duty soldering iron for this and similar tasks and have looked at American Beauty" products. Boy, are they expensive! They have an excellent reputation, but I can't quite get myself to spring for one.

[chap52]

Maybe a tool rental place? Or a local auto parts store may "loan" you one.

[3twinridges]

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The weller d650 is plenty for that job, probably $50 or so

[PeteVS]

Back in the day, my neighbor's ignition shop had an old heavy duty screw driver. The tip had been cut off and a drilled out threaded rod coupling was brazed on in its place. About half of its length extended beyond the screw driver shank and it had a cross hole drilled and tapped in the middle of that extended length. There was also a stout piece of insulated wire connected to that piece and the other end had a big clip. The working piece was the carbon center piece of an old dry cell "D" battery that was held in place by a screw in the cross hole.
The piece to be soldered on was connected to a 6 volt battery and the new tool was connected to the other post. You got good heat when the carbon came into contact with the piece to be soldered. A 12 volt battery provided a little too much heat.
By the time I worked there, all starters I worked on had screw terminals for brush leads so I never got to use it. The old timers used it, however, to resolder starter windings to the commutator segments of starters that had overheated and "thrown the lead."

[cederholm]

Very helpful advice all - thanks! Any helpful tips on removing the old bushings?

This is good to hear as I have a Weller d650 kicking around somewhere.

Originally Posted by 3twinridges

The weller d650 is plenty for that job, probably $50 or so

...and this is just cool!

Originally Posted by PeteVS

Back in the day, my neighbor's ignition shop had an old heavy duty screw driver. The tip had been cut off and a drilled out threaded rod coupling was brazed on in its place. About half of its length extended beyond the screw driver shank and it had a cross hole drilled and tapped in the middle of that extended length. There was also a stout piece of insulated wire connected to that piece and the other end had a big clip. The working piece was the carbon center piece of an old dry cell "D" battery that was held in place by a screw in the cross hole.
The piece to be soldered on was connected to a 6 volt battery and the new tool was connected to the other post. You got good heat when the carbon came into contact with the piece to be soldered. A 12 volt battery provided a little too much heat.
By the time I worked there, all starters I worked on had screw terminals for brush leads so I never got to use it. The old timers used it, however, to resolder starter windings to the commutator segments of starters that had overheated and "thrown the lead."

[rotorwrench]

Soldering takes practice. Tinning a new wire to be soldered is important to get it to stick quickly to its terminal. If you have no access to a growler, your taking a bit of a chance but you can test the commutator with an ohms meter and you can see if lead solder has been thrown out on the armature winding connections to the commutator. You should check the field coils to see if they are still within proper Ohms specs too.

A bushing can sometimes be removed hydraulically by putting some grease inside the bushing cup and finding a shaft that will fit into the bushing tight enough to drive against the grease. The grease will push the bushing out. If that doesn't work the an expandable step puller can be inserted then expanded to fit under the bushing. They can then be pulled with a slide hammer or a U-bar puller.

[Crankster]

Modern rosin core solder isn't quite as active as it once was. Modern electronics don't have all the crud that vintage stuff does. Oatey makes a soldering flux that I dip the regular rosin core solder in for a little extra help. The old school Kester 65/35 smells way better, too. I try not to huff solder fumes, but it sure brings back memories.

[Kurt in NJ]

Originally Posted by 3twinridges

The weller d650 is plenty for that job, probably $50 or so

When I was using that it took 2 of them, and got everything hot and smoking--- once I got a large iron with a heavy copper tip the solder and flux worked much better--- I consider 400 watt to be borderline for starter work

I had 2 of the wellers taped together

[3twinridges]

Use a dremel with sanding drums to thin the one in the cap then collapse it with a screwdriver. Press the other one out and then press new ones in.

You should be able to rebuild it in less than an hour. Use a piece of stiff wire to catch the springs and position them on the brushes as you seat the cap.

[PeteVS]

Originally Posted by cederholm

Any helpful tips on removing the old bushings?

If it's in a blind hole, you should be able to find a tap that's slightly larger OD than the ID of the bushing. Just turn the tap into the bushing (assuming the bushing is in a blind hole) and the tap will bottom out. Then, it will either lift the bushing out or cause it to spin in the hole. If you get the bushing to spin in the hole, pull it out by the tap.

[cederholm]

Some really helpful info here. Thanks all.

~ Carl