The Ford Barn

The "A" Team · 10-03-2022, 12:06 PM

Hi everyone,

I just recently put my father's 1930 Model A Coupe back together after he took it apart to restore it around 20 years ago and never finished. Everything seems to be running pretty well after reinstalling the engine, transmission, etc., but the only thing I'm noticing is that the starter sometimes seems to miss the flywheel on startup. It doesn't do it every time, but sometimes when I press on the "button" it whirs really fast like a drill, which tells me it's not engaged to the flywheel. After a couple of times of pressing the button, it does engage the flywheel and pretty much starts right up. Is this normal, or does something need to be adjusted?

Thanks as always.

John

Marshall V. Daut · 10-03-2022, 12:51 PM

The Model A engine tends to stop at one or two places on the flywheel over and over again. Naturally, the ring gear teeth in this area get chewed up by the Bendix drive more than the rest of the almost unused teeth. 'Sorry. No easy cure. The only fix is to replace the ring gear. Some guys just heat the ring gear and rotate it a couple inches so that fresh teeth now engage with the starter drive. But occasionally the engine will stop at a different place and may encounter the old ground down teeth = Problem reoccurs. For all the work required to heat and move the gear, why not just install a new ring gear so that there will never be a problem like this again in your lifetime?
In the meantime, you can "cheat" a little and stall the engine by slowly letting out the clutch in gear while holding the brake pedal down. This will force the engine to stop in an unnatural place where the ring gear teeth will still be good. Be sure to turn off the ignition switch afterwards! This is only a stop gap measure to make life tolerable until you can replace the ring gear. If necessary, you can use the hand crank to turn the flywheel a couple degrees to reach unused/unabused teeth on the ring gear. But that gets old FAST!!!

Marshall

john charlton · 10-03-2022, 01:06 PM

Take the spark plugs out and then remove the starter . Get a comely assistant or wife/girlfriend and get her to slowly rotate the engine on the crank handle . Shine a flashlight on the ring to see the ring gear state of health . With the starter out check the free sliding motion of the bendix helix to see if any binding .

John in same place same weather .

1930artdeco · 10-03-2022, 01:16 PM

Mine does the same thing occasionally. I just hit the button a second time and she fires right up. Doesn't seem to hurt anything, I think it is just the starter gets hung up every so often. At least that is my story and I am sticking too it.

Mike

Benson · 10-03-2022, 01:26 PM

If you check out the ring gear and find it good, try this:

If someone used grease or a heavy oil like 600W or even 40 W on starter Bendix, the gear will not engage and starter will just spin.

The colder the temperature the worse the problem.

If "spiral" is rusty the problem will be worse.

Thoroughly clean the bendix with brake cleaner or lacquer thinner. Be sure all grease is removed from the "Spirals" especially.

Then lube with thin oil like "three in one" or sewing machine oil.

Tom Endy · 10-03-2022, 01:29 PM

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If it is a replacement starter ring gear, pull the starter and see if it is walking forward. The reproductions sometimes do not fit tight. When the starter engages it wants to pull the ring gear forward away from the stop. When installing a new ring gear. I always have them pinned. You can tap it back into place by rotating the engine. It will hold for a while.

Henry should have designed it so that the starter pulls it against the stop, not away from it.

Tom Endy

The "A" Team · 10-03-2022, 01:46 PM

The ring gear and bendix gear all looked good when I reassembled the engine, with no worn or missing teeth. After it spins once or twice, it does fall into place back into the gear, so I was thinking it was moving away like Tom said.

I'll pull the starter off and inspect all the pieces, and even clean it up and oil it like Benson said.

Y-Blockhead · 10-03-2022, 04:23 PM

The 3 in 1 oil should work fine but I like to use a dry lubricant in such places as this or on brake pivot points. Less chance of dirt build up on the moving parts.

https://www.amazon.com/Slip-Plate-Pl...%2C154&sr=8-19

Synchro909 · 10-03-2022, 05:36 PM

Are you using an original style Bendix or one of those awful modern things that don't fully engage the ring gear. They will chew up the teeth. Don't ask how I know.
Also, if the teeth are chewed up, they can put so much side load on the pinion that the starter shaft will bend. I've seen that on even the stronger 5/8" shafts.

nkaminar · 10-03-2022, 08:41 PM

Where I live the farmers will always park their trucks on the top of a hill.

I am going to go with what Benson said.

katy · 10-04-2022, 10:14 AM

Does it do it when the engine is warm? Or only when it's been sitting, like overnight? If the latter, it's probably the spiral on the bendix hanging up as Benson suggsted. An old trick is, when you shut the engine off, bump the starter button to engage the bendix, then it's already engaged the next time you start the engine.

10-03-2022, 12:06 PM	#1
The "A" Team Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Rochelle Park, New Jersey Posts: 85	Starter missing flywheel Hi everyone, I just recently put my father's 1930 Model A Coupe back together after he took it apart to restore it around 20 years ago and never finished. Everything seems to be running pretty well after reinstalling the engine, transmission, etc., but the only thing I'm noticing is that the starter sometimes seems to miss the flywheel on startup. It doesn't do it every time, but sometimes when I press on the "button" it whirs really fast like a drill, which tells me it's not engaged to the flywheel. After a couple of times of pressing the button, it does engage the flywheel and pretty much starts right up. Is this normal, or does something need to be adjusted? Thanks as always. John

10-03-2022, 12:51 PM	#2
Marshall V. Daut Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Davenport, Iowa Posts: 2,112	Re: Starter missing flywheel The Model A engine tends to stop at one or two places on the flywheel over and over again. Naturally, the ring gear teeth in this area get chewed up by the Bendix drive more than the rest of the almost unused teeth. 'Sorry. No easy cure. The only fix is to replace the ring gear. Some guys just heat the ring gear and rotate it a couple inches so that fresh teeth now engage with the starter drive. But occasionally the engine will stop at a different place and may encounter the old ground down teeth = Problem reoccurs. For all the work required to heat and move the gear, why not just install a new ring gear so that there will never be a problem like this again in your lifetime? In the meantime, you can "cheat" a little and stall the engine by slowly letting out the clutch in gear while holding the brake pedal down. This will force the engine to stop in an unnatural place where the ring gear teeth will still be good. Be sure to turn off the ignition switch afterwards! This is only a stop gap measure to make life tolerable until you can replace the ring gear. If necessary, you can use the hand crank to turn the flywheel a couple degrees to reach unused/unabused teeth on the ring gear. But that gets old FAST!!! Marshall Last edited by Marshall V. Daut; 10-03-2022 at 01:08 PM.

10-03-2022, 01:06 PM	#3
john charlton Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 1,304	Re: Starter missing flywheel Take the spark plugs out and then remove the starter . Get a comely assistant or wife/girlfriend and get her to slowly rotate the engine on the crank handle . Shine a flashlight on the ring to see the ring gear state of health . With the starter out check the free sliding motion of the bendix helix to see if any binding . John in same place same weather .

10-03-2022, 01:16 PM	#4
1930artdeco Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Lynden, Wa Posts: 3,552	Re: Starter missing flywheel Mine does the same thing occasionally. I just hit the button a second time and she fires right up. Doesn't seem to hurt anything, I think it is just the starter gets hung up every so often. At least that is my story and I am sticking too it. Mike __________________ 1930 TownSedan (Briggs) 1957 Country Sedan

10-03-2022, 01:26 PM	#5
Benson Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 2,599	Re: Starter missing flywheel If you check out the ring gear and find it good, try this: If someone used grease or a heavy oil like 600W or even 40 W on starter Bendix, the gear will not engage and starter will just spin. The colder the temperature the worse the problem. If "spiral" is rusty the problem will be worse. Thoroughly clean the bendix with brake cleaner or lacquer thinner. Be sure all grease is removed from the "Spirals" especially. Then lube with thin oil like "three in one" or sewing machine oil. Last edited by Benson; 10-03-2022 at 01:32 PM.

10-03-2022, 01:29 PM	#6
Tom Endy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Southern California Posts: 3,131	Re: Starter missing flywheel Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) If it is a replacement starter ring gear, pull the starter and see if it is walking forward. The reproductions sometimes do not fit tight. When the starter engages it wants to pull the ring gear forward away from the stop. When installing a new ring gear. I always have them pinned. You can tap it back into place by rotating the engine. It will hold for a while. Henry should have designed it so that the starter pulls it against the stop, not away from it. Tom Endy

10-03-2022, 01:46 PM	#7
The "A" Team Member Join Date: Jan 2022 Location: Rochelle Park, New Jersey Posts: 85	Re: Starter missing flywheel The ring gear and bendix gear all looked good when I reassembled the engine, with no worn or missing teeth. After it spins once or twice, it does fall into place back into the gear, so I was thinking it was moving away like Tom said. I'll pull the starter off and inspect all the pieces, and even clean it up and oil it like Benson said.

10-03-2022, 04:23 PM	#8
Y-Blockhead Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Redondo Beach, CA Posts: 5,849	Re: Starter missing flywheel The 3 in 1 oil should work fine but I like to use a dry lubricant in such places as this or on brake pivot points. Less chance of dirt build up on the moving parts. https://www.amazon.com/Slip-Plate-Pl...%2C154&sr=8-19

10-03-2022, 05:36 PM	#9
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,497	Re: Starter missing flywheel Are you using an original style Bendix or one of those awful modern things that don't fully engage the ring gear. They will chew up the teeth. Don't ask how I know. Also, if the teeth are chewed up, they can put so much side load on the pinion that the starter shaft will bend. I've seen that on even the stronger 5/8" shafts. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

10-03-2022, 08:41 PM	#10
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,903	Re: Starter missing flywheel Where I live the farmers will always park their trucks on the top of a hill. I am going to go with what Benson said. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

10-04-2022, 10:14 AM	#11
katy Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Red Deer, Alberta Posts: 5,046	Re: Starter missing flywheel Does it do it when the engine is warm? Or only when it's been sitting, like overnight? If the latter, it's probably the spiral on the bendix hanging up as Benson suggsted. An old trick is, when you shut the engine off, bump the starter button to engage the bendix, then it's already engaged the next time you start the engine. __________________ If you don't hear a rumor by 10 AM, start one!. Got my education out behind the barn!