The Ford Barn

Talkwrench · 10-28-2013, 09:18 PM

Are these symptoms my starter motor going?

Seems to be when the motor is hot it wont crank , trys and dies like a flat battery. If the motor is left and its cool it will start, I can hear a slight struggle but it will. It takes two batteries to start it, again if left so the motor is only warm , once hot even two batteries wont start it.

I do have a solenoid in the system I checked it by bridging and it clicked and I heard the starter motor try crank. Could this still be at fault?

All connections seem good and tight, I will still pull one at a time to clean but not hopeful.

I am taking the battery to be load tested today, but Im sure its fine, I did try another battery with the same results.

The starter motor should not be old as I was told a new one when I bought the truck last year, maybe only a few years old and hardly used, looks newish. I don't know if it is a 6 volt or 12 volt? truck was converted to 12 volts before I got it, I have been running a 12 volt Alt for a while with no probs.

Could it be anything else I have not thought of?

Next question would be how do I remove the starter on one of these if that's the problem ???

41ford1 · 10-29-2013, 05:21 AM

That's a symptom of worn motor bushings. If it only does that when warm, the bushings are worn just enough to let the armature drag on the fields. Do the simple things first. Check all the connections including the ground side. If the starter is bad loosen the hex bolts in the end plate. These go all the way through the starter. They also hold the starter together. There may be clip from the top bolt to the pan. Remove it also. Be careful when you pull it out. You could end up will a 3D puzzle.

Talkwrench · 10-29-2013, 06:57 AM

Thank you for your reply. I had the battery load tested and it was fine. I have gone through all connections and cleaned them up, I didn't fine anything bad.. So I'll start it up tomorrow and see what happens.. Definitely looking like the starter.
Removal sounds easy.. But hard to understand that it's just those long bolts holding the starter on and together, They don't seem very big..

19Fordy · 10-29-2013, 08:12 AM

Not sure what you have but 8BA starters had the little support bracket that bolted to the end of the starter and one of the oil pan bolts to support the weight.
See it here.
http://lbcunited.com/earlyford2/index.php/cPath/138_276

41ford1 · 10-29-2013, 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Talkwrench

Removal sounds easy.. But hard to understand that it's just those long bolts holding the starter on and together, They don't seem very big..

You've got it. The bolts hold the motor together and on the engine.

Talkwrench · 10-29-2013, 10:08 PM

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Gawd another great Ford invention.. I can see bits everywhere already! That support bracket can that be used on a 37 block, I don't have one? Seems like a good idea.
Anyone have an exploded view of a starter , I have no idea of what I will need to order? I might try put up some pics of it as I don't think its an original starter, could be a modern bendix???

Talkwrench · 10-30-2013, 06:26 AM

Well it fired up [just] and after a run came back tried to start and... Nah weak crank and nothin'. I had my daughter hold the starter on while I checked connections and nothing got hot so I would say for sure the starter motor is shot. Not really sure what do next try and buy the small parts and fix or just buy a new starter, Macs have them going out for $145 at the mo' Im at the other end of the world so not sure what might be easiest in the end if I fall short in small parts. Here's some pics I think it might be a modern style ???

George/Maine · 10-30-2013, 06:41 AM

If you are running 12 volts Speedway has a newer 12 volt starter,I installed one on my 8ba and is works great.I will cost over $200 and does,nt sound like a flathead anymore,and looks the same.

Talkwrench · 10-30-2013, 08:21 AM

Don't think Speedway send to Australia as the have an agent here ..way to expensive.

George/Maine · 10-30-2013, 09:23 AM

You could call direct to MFG 630 849-7754
Company POWERMASTER West Chicago, IL
# of statrer 92507 ITS Lighter then orginal
WWW.powermasterperformance.com
http://powermastermotorsports.com/
I have a automatic and need a good starter.

Talkwrench · 11-05-2013, 06:54 AM

UPDATE; I just bit the bullet and ordered a new starter motor from Macs as they where on special. 41ford1 nailed it . When I pulled the old starter it did come apart as they do but I could see / feel the slop in the bush when I had it in my hand. I ordered it on a Thursday night here in Western Australia it was on my doorstep Monday, damn that's good! I rubbed a few brain cells together and I figured out to get some gaffer tape and tape around the motor so it wouldn't come apart, worked a treat, easy install.

danliveshere · 11-05-2013, 08:12 AM

Good work rob. Easier to remove on a lhd. A rhd has the steering box in there as well, meaning you have to remove the engine mounts, loosen the lower hoses, and jack the motor enough to clear the starter/ sump/ steering box. Hahaha thanks henry!!!

41ford1 · 11-05-2013, 08:23 AM

Don't trash the old one. There has to be a shop that can rebuild yours in Perth. The bushes should be easy for a motor shop to replace. Your unit rebuilt may be better than the new stuff. Plus it's always good to have a spare.

Talkwrench · 11-05-2013, 07:34 PM

Next time I place an order I will buy the parts and rebuild this one as a spare.
Anyone know if that support bracket from the starter will fit a 37? seems like it would , I would put that on also..

koates · 11-06-2013, 06:46 AM

You don't need that support bracket on your 37 ford. Pre war flatheads were not fitted with them. Rebuild your old starter which would be preferred. ALL parts are available, both bushes, brush set, bendix drive parts, field coils etc. Make sure you lube the bushes correctly with engine oil. Bushes are porous so sit the bush on the ball of one thumb and hold top of it with index finger. Fill bush with oil then place other thumb over end and squeeze down hard till oil comes through sides of bush. If you don't do this bush will wear out quickly. You could also soak bushes in a tin of oil for a couple of days if your thumbs aint big enough. Don't get oil on the commutator or brushes. You need a certain amount of expertise to know what you are looking at, or for, inside a starter motor so if not sure find a good auto electrical shop in your area to help out. I could do it for you but shipping to Melbourne and back would be more than its worth. Good luck, Regards, Kevin.

V8COOPMAN · 11-06-2013, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by koates

I could do it for you but shipping to Melbourne and back would be more than its worth. Kevin.

Aren't Perth and Melbourne just down the street from each other? DD

nbrskn · 11-06-2013, 02:32 PM

If the shaft is worn on bushing areas. Putting in stock bushings wont help. You will need oversized bushings.

Talkwrench · 11-06-2013, 07:14 PM

nbrskn that's why I thought, get a whole new starter motor as the small things like that can be drama.

Thanks for the info Kev, I wondered about the new motor and lubing but no instructions on having to do anything, so just whacked it in. I had a look at the old starter and although simple I got frustrated at trying to push the brushes back so I could seal the motor.. Threw it in the box and put it away for later ! I'll keep in touch as when I do get to do it I'll call for help! .

Thanks guys..

Talkwrench · 11-06-2013, 07:16 PM

Melbourne to Perth.. Mmm You can get there in an afternoon.. IF on a plane!

Old Henry · 11-06-2013, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Aren't Perth and Melbourne just down the street from each other? DD

3,459 km (2,149 mi), drive 36 hrs, fly 3½ hrs.

Lawson Cox · 11-06-2013, 07:52 PM

I always put the starter support bracket on, regardless of the year. It can't hurt, and it does give a lot of support to the starter. $5.00 here in USA.

Keep us posted.

Talkwrench · 11-07-2013, 01:35 AM

From the picture of one it looked like it would fit, as you say for $5. I'll get one next time I do an order.

B-O-B · 11-07-2013, 11:57 AM

There is not much involved to one. Why not just make your own. a couple of bends & a couple of holes in a piece of metal.

Talkwrench · 11-07-2013, 07:31 PM

C'mon BoB its 5 bucks!

My wife would prefer me to spend the time mowing the lawn

B-O-B · 11-10-2013, 12:54 PM

Har har har your lawn or the neighbors & you could make the $5.00.

IL41Flat · 11-10-2013, 08:17 PM

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Learned something today. Mine does the same fast start cold, slow crank when hot. Maybe starter is dragging. I have a good elect. motor shop close to home that rebuild my generator this summer, including new armature (wires broken all over it). I'll pull it this winter and find out.

10-28-2013, 09:18 PM	#1
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Is my started motor going ?? Are these symptoms my starter motor going? Seems to be when the motor is hot it wont crank , trys and dies like a flat battery. If the motor is left and its cool it will start, I can hear a slight struggle but it will. It takes two batteries to start it, again if left so the motor is only warm , once hot even two batteries wont start it. I do have a solenoid in the system I checked it by bridging and it clicked and I heard the starter motor try crank. Could this still be at fault? All connections seem good and tight, I will still pull one at a time to clean but not hopeful. I am taking the battery to be load tested today, but Im sure its fine, I did try another battery with the same results. The starter motor should not be old as I was told a new one when I bought the truck last year, maybe only a few years old and hardly used, looks newish. I don't know if it is a 6 volt or 12 volt? truck was converted to 12 volts before I got it, I have been running a 12 volt Alt for a while with no probs. Could it be anything else I have not thought of? Next question would be how do I remove the starter on one of these if that's the problem ??? __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"* Last edited by Talkwrench; 10-29-2013 at 01:33 AM. Reason: spelling

10-29-2013, 05:21 AM	#2
41ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ManchVegas, New Hampshah Posts: 1,589	Re: Is my started motor going ?? That's a symptom of worn motor bushings. If it only does that when warm, the bushings are worn just enough to let the armature drag on the fields. Do the simple things first. Check all the connections including the ground side. If the starter is bad loosen the hex bolts in the end plate. These go all the way through the starter. They also hold the starter together. There may be clip from the top bolt to the pan. Remove it also. Be careful when you pull it out. You could end up will a 3D puzzle. __________________ You are never to old to enjoy your childhood. Forty1fordpickup on the HAMB.

10-29-2013, 06:57 AM	#3
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Thank you for your reply. I had the battery load tested and it was fine. I have gone through all connections and cleaned them up, I didn't fine anything bad.. So I'll start it up tomorrow and see what happens.. Definitely looking like the starter. Removal sounds easy.. But hard to understand that it's just those long bolts holding the starter on and together, They don't seem very big.. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-29-2013, 08:12 AM	#4
19Fordy Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Coral Springs FL Posts: 10,944	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Not sure what you have but 8BA starters had the little support bracket that bolted to the end of the starter and one of the oil pan bolts to support the weight. See it here. http://lbcunited.com/earlyford2/index.php/cPath/138_276

10-29-2013, 10:08 PM	#6
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Gawd another great Ford invention.. I can see bits everywhere already! That support bracket can that be used on a 37 block, I don't have one? Seems like a good idea. Anyone have an exploded view of a starter , I have no idea of what I will need to order? I might try put up some pics of it as I don't think its an original starter, could be a modern bendix??? __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-30-2013, 06:41 AM	#8
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Is my started motor going ?? If you are running 12 volts Speedway has a newer 12 volt starter,I installed one on my 8ba and is works great.I will cost over $200 and does,nt sound like a flathead anymore,and looks the same.

10-30-2013, 08:21 AM	#9
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Don't think Speedway send to Australia as the have an agent here ..way to expensive. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

10-30-2013, 09:23 AM	#10
George/Maine Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Mid coast Maine Posts: 1,878	Re: Is my started motor going ?? You could call direct to MFG 630 849-7754 Company POWERMASTER West Chicago, IL # of statrer 92507 ITS Lighter then orginal WWW.powermasterperformance.com http://powermastermotorsports.com/ I have a automatic and need a good starter.

11-05-2013, 06:54 AM	#11
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? UPDATE; I just bit the bullet and ordered a new starter motor from Macs as they where on special. 41ford1 nailed it . When I pulled the old starter it did come apart as they do but I could see / feel the slop in the bush when I had it in my hand. I ordered it on a Thursday night here in Western Australia it was on my doorstep Monday, damn that's good! I rubbed a few brain cells together and I figured out to get some gaffer tape and tape around the motor so it wouldn't come apart, worked a treat, easy install. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

11-05-2013, 08:12 AM	#12
danliveshere Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cairns , Australia Posts: 746	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Good work rob. Easier to remove on a lhd. A rhd has the steering box in there as well, meaning you have to remove the engine mounts, loosen the lower hoses, and jack the motor enough to clear the starter/ sump/ steering box. Hahaha thanks henry!!!

11-05-2013, 08:23 AM	#13
41ford1 Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: ManchVegas, New Hampshah Posts: 1,589	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Don't trash the old one. There has to be a shop that can rebuild yours in Perth. The bushes should be easy for a motor shop to replace. Your unit rebuilt may be better than the new stuff. Plus it's always good to have a spare. __________________ You are never to old to enjoy your childhood. Forty1fordpickup on the HAMB.

11-05-2013, 07:34 PM	#14
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Next time I place an order I will buy the parts and rebuild this one as a spare. Anyone know if that support bracket from the starter will fit a 37? seems like it would , I would put that on also.. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

11-06-2013, 06:46 AM	#15
koates Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Melbourne Australia. Posts: 2,079	Re: Is my started motor going ?? You don't need that support bracket on your 37 ford. Pre war flatheads were not fitted with them. Rebuild your old starter which would be preferred. ALL parts are available, both bushes, brush set, bendix drive parts, field coils etc. Make sure you lube the bushes correctly with engine oil. Bushes are porous so sit the bush on the ball of one thumb and hold top of it with index finger. Fill bush with oil then place other thumb over end and squeeze down hard till oil comes through sides of bush. If you don't do this bush will wear out quickly. You could also soak bushes in a tin of oil for a couple of days if your thumbs aint big enough. Don't get oil on the commutator or brushes. You need a certain amount of expertise to know what you are looking at, or for, inside a starter motor so if not sure find a good auto electrical shop in your area to help out. I could do it for you but shipping to Melbourne and back would be more than its worth. Good luck, Regards, Kevin.

11-06-2013, 02:32 PM	#17
nbrskn Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 103	Re: Is my started motor going ?? If the shaft is worn on bushing areas. Putting in stock bushings wont help. You will need oversized bushings.

11-06-2013, 07:14 PM	#18
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? nbrskn that's why I thought, get a whole new starter motor as the small things like that can be drama. Thanks for the info Kev, I wondered about the new motor and lubing but no instructions on having to do anything, so just whacked it in. I had a look at the old starter and although simple I got frustrated at trying to push the brushes back so I could seal the motor.. Threw it in the box and put it away for later ! I'll keep in touch as when I do get to do it I'll call for help! . Thanks guys.. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

11-06-2013, 07:16 PM	#19
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Melbourne to Perth.. Mmm You can get there in an afternoon.. IF on a plane! __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

11-06-2013, 07:52 PM	#21
Lawson Cox Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Above the gnat line in Georgia Posts: 7,009	Re: Is my started motor going ?? I always put the starter support bracket on, regardless of the year. It can't hurt, and it does give a lot of support to the starter. $5.00 here in USA. Keep us posted. __________________ Life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer to the end, the faster it goes. It is better to be seen, than viewed. "We sleep safe in our beds because rough men stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would do us harm". Last edited by Lawson Cox; 11-07-2013 at 02:20 AM. Reason: omitted a word.

11-07-2013, 01:35 AM	#22
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? From the picture of one it looked like it would fit, as you say for $5. I'll get one next time I do an order. __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

11-07-2013, 11:57 AM	#23
B-O-B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ft Mohave,Az Posts: 1,987	Re: Is my started motor going ?? There is not much involved to one. Why not just make your own. a couple of bends & a couple of holes in a piece of metal.

11-07-2013, 07:31 PM	#24
Talkwrench Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Perth, Western Australia Posts: 2,687	Re: Is my started motor going ?? C'mon BoB its 5 bucks! My wife would prefer me to spend the time mowing the lawn __________________ *"Came too close to dying to stop living now!"*

11-10-2013, 12:54 PM	#25
B-O-B Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Ft Mohave,Az Posts: 1,987	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Har har har your lawn or the neighbors & you could make the $5.00.

11-10-2013, 08:17 PM	#26
IL41Flat Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Illinois/Wisconsin Border Posts: 53	Re: Is my started motor going ?? Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Learned something today. Mine does the same fast start cold, slow crank when hot. Maybe starter is dragging. I have a good elect. motor shop close to home that rebuild my generator this summer, including new armature (wires broken all over it). I'll pull it this winter and find out.