Ford steering box’s flathead Ted

[john greco]

Hi everyone , just wondering if there is anyone out there that has a flathead teds steering box ? Or has ordered one and been led on and never received one ?

[swoopNZ]

Flathead Ted has a pretty good reputation down here in these parts.

[john greco]

Well it’s been 4 years waiting on a box and have emails going back and forth saying all I have to do is Assemble, then waiting on sector, then all I need to do is paint, then shut down for Covid, then on vacation, then retired , then ok I’ll get it for you , you have waited to long , then ghost me and Then at almost at the 4th year said John surly you know what’s going on ,THEY DONT WANT MY BOXES UP THERE , that’s all I can say ! ( I have no idea on what he’s talking about do any of you guys )

[alchemy]

Did he get your money 4 years ago?

[1948F-1Pickup]

Yeah. That’s a good question……

[deuce lover]

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4 Years !! I contacted him 2.5 yrs ago for a price and could not get an ETA confirmation.I did get a brake floater kit from him and that worked out well .

[john greco]

No never sent money , gave address and all shipping info , he said hold off on payment till shipped . I just read that he had a box that felt like p/s and he was the one to go to , that’s the only reason I waited so long , I just don’t get it , I must have pages of going back and forth , he just keep me hanging on . Was hoping he would chime in an just tell all of us the truth , and yes his floaters work no doubt . Please chime in Ted I know your reading this and let us all know if there available or not .

[glennpm]

Wow, four years!

I had a similar bad experience in first trying to get a box for my 32, about six months or so, and then after working on getting it installed, the free movement was in inches and dangerous to drive! I couldn't get Ted'a help on adjusting and returned it to him. He promptly refunded my money but $150 shipping on me.

[john greco]

Glenn how long did it take to get the box once ordered ? When was this ? Did you have many emails going back and forth ? Was it the stock box casting or his own ?

[glennpm]

John,

It took from Nov 26, 2019 until August 14, 2020 to get him to manufacture and finish a box for shipping. The shipment from Ted in New Zealand was pretty quick, just a week or two. When I returned it to Ted it took a lot longer, about 6 or 7 weeks.

I had about 70 or 80 emails back and forth with Ted. When I was trying to get it figured, is where the bulk of them were. He was slow or non responsive when I started having issues with the box.

The box casting is newly cast and not the original. The box came with the steering shaft and was packed very well.

My experience:

- new box is slightly larger than stock and was extremely close to my headers even after denting to get enough clearance to install.
- The boss on the upper bearing retainer is longer than stock and gave me fits in getting a bolt to work and tightened. I attached a picture to show this
- The ID of the steering shaft is too small a diameter. I was unable to insert the bottom plate with brass tube. Took me about 3 hours to fix it.
- Biggest issue was with the amount of free movement, approximately 110mm/~4 1/2", at the wheel with zero pitman arm movement!

I sent many emails to Ted showing how the pitman arm plate and boss were pushed to the limit. Ted was adamant about not opening the box which I didn't. The only part I had to remove was the top bearing retainer. There was just no way to get it in attached and awful trying to get a modified header rear manifold bolt in and tightened. I'm talking many hours here. I don't believe it would be any easier with a stock manifold. He never responded to the free movement of the box.

After the box was received by him, he said it had been opened up, which I didn't. He then claimed that he had taken about 25 pictures of the box before he sent it to. Never once did he tell me this or offer to either compare them himself or send them to me so that I could. Many weeks later he was accusing me of reverse engineering the box. We made our peace on that but it still leaves me a bit incredulous about the whole deal.

Hopefully I either got a box that wasn't setup correctly or he has or had issues internally with the worm and sector engagement and has since resolved them.

Glenn

[john greco]

Wow , seems like he has such a good reputation on the barn and chimes in to most questions , and seems like super knowledgeable flathead ford guy , he’s a asset for sure , just don’t get it , fix it and move on right ? Can’t understand why he led me on forever and ghosted me till I would find one of his reply’s to another person and I’d say hey Ted can you answer me and sure enough he would , with another setback , come on Ted let get this ironed out and move on , I still could use a 2 ea 1934 boxes

[Bored&Stroked]

Well, one thing is for sure . . . after these stories, I'd not be ordering one of these steering boxes, can't afford the drama and time involved, only to end up with a steering box with more free-play than I've ever seen on a stock one . . .

[topfuel724]

Try Neil Jennings. You won't be disappointed.

[petehoovie]

Originally Posted by topfuel724

Try Neil Jennings. You won't be disappointed.

NealinCA (Neal Jennings)
Neal's Hot Rod Parts
[email protected]

[glennpm]

Yes, I’m on Neal’s List for a few months now :-). The wait will be worth it.

Glenn

[JM 35 Sedan]

Another recommendation for NealinCA. I know he does an excellent job of rebuilding the '37-'48 Ford passenger car/light commercial steering boxes and also builds Hudson boxes, in addition to building steering boxes using his own casting.

[FlatheadTed]

There's a whole back ground to this story ,I was told over two years ago by a Kiwi living in the states that (his words ) they intend to copy your stuff , Obviously the box for Glen did not leave here with having 4"of play. I went to a great deal of trouble and expense to develop this 32 box ,it was assembled with great care .The drop arm is attached and a steering wheel is used as part of the test process ,so did we miss 4 " 0f play no chance .After many E mails out of frustration asked him to return it ,it arrived with adjustments bolts loose, seals disturbed .after some consideration concluded that the box most likely had been intercepted in transit ,


Attached a comment from satisfied customer
https://www.fordbarn.com/forum/showt...highlight=Kpar

[john greco]

Hi Ted , thanks for chiming in , so do you believe someone is going to copy your box ? Are you not shipping to the US ? Can I still get a box ? ??????? Why the mis leading me for years ?.

[alchemy]

What is in these wonderful Ted's boxes? Are they an F-1 style box with the worm over the sector to better fit a 30's Ford? Or are they a circulating ball type like a 60's car?

[deuce lover]

F1 style. They even look like the original 32-34 boxes.He used to have a pic on his website but took it down.

[FlatheadTed]

(Worm and roller) !,While we are on the subject of Glens box ,I believed I was supplying a box for a unmodified car ? . I notice in his photos that he had removed and replaced the top bearing retainer with his own non std ,So there's a critical part pertaining to the adjustment that I hoped he wouldn't touch ,what I offered in adjustment was to focus on the clocking of drop arm ,and to restrain him from playing with the screws ,

[glennpm]

Ted, I told you that I had to remove it, sliding it up the steering shaft in order to access the rear most manifold bolt. This is one of the instances that you never replied to when I was working on your box and the bolts were slightly tightened with a 1/4" socket wrench. They were so loose when I got the box that I removed the four bolts by hand with no wrench. I not only told you this in separate emails but in the Word doc that you never commented on. Perhaps you didn't read it?

You sent me a box that was not adjusted. The packing that you did had not been opened. This was as received. Did you personally adjust the box?

Glenn

[Karl]

I have one of Teds Boxes in my 1934
I love it When I installed it I had a problem (which was probably due to me )
I rang Ted He took it back and fixed what I had done. He's a stand up guy IMHO.
I do think that Ted is like a lot of talented people who would rather being doing than writing/reading emails - I got a better understanding (and resolution ) of my problem by speaking to him directly than by emails -Karl

[Kpar]

I have one of Ted's boxes been on the 33 for a few years like power steering.
kpar

[FlatheadTed]

Thank you to those who supported me ,Glen was the last person to adjust my box ,Given the success of my brake Floaters.
. When the 32 box was returned I looked at the packaging ,bolts and cover that were loosened off I thought the box had done a round trip to California , ,

.

[alchemy]

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The Hudson boxes are basically an F-1 box with the worm above the sector. Those have been modified with a new mounting flange, and put into old Fords for many years. And now Neal is making the Hudson-style boxes brand new so folks don't need to scrounge for hard to find Hudsons. Ted, I really doubt there is much reverse engineering someone would steal from your new box to make a copy of a Hudson box.

Let me tell you I am the last person to gloss over the theft of a product I designed, as I personally made custom dash panels and had someone from Australia steal my exact design and sell them as their own. But I don't believe the worry of someone looking at the inside of a steering box they bought from you is a reason to not fix the problem. Or even refund the money if they can't get it to work.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

Thank you to those who supported me ,Glen was the last person to adjust my box ,Given the success of my brake Floaters I thought some one would try and get a sample of my box possibly the first of the press to reverse engineer, that I wanted to avoid .
. When the 32 box was returned I looked at the bolts and cover that were loosened off I thought the box had done a round trip to a well known California address ,It looked contrived to mock me , .it took several weeks longer to return ,

.

Man, what an insulting and flaky response. Just what is meant by "a well-known California address"? You seem to imply that YOU are the only one smart enough to understand all of the 'secret stuff' that's gone into your magical contraption. It's pretty well understood that Glenn didn't just start messing with these old used cars any time recently. Anyone caring to pay a little attention might realize that Glenn is actually one of the sharper tacks that tends to hang around with this bunch. I, for one, surely can't imagine ever having any use for any of your services.

Coop

.

[FlatheadTed]

Alchemy thank you for your measured response.

Have edited the previous post as some people might get the wrong idea . No offence meant to Glen, just trying to find the cause of the problem.

The one returned we checked, tightened up the cover bolts and sold it with no problems.

We issued Glen a full refund less return freight once it arrived back in New Zealand which is the standard practice.

I am aware of Neals boxes and I am sure he has his own ideas and knows his craft well.

Alchemy ,With the theft of your product I am sure it plays on your mind.

We have been exporting all over the world for over a decade and my feedback on here is all positive. We have hundreds of very satisfied customers from several Countries including many from all over the United States.

Originally Posted by alchemy

The Hudson boxes are basically an F-1 box with the worm above the sector. Those have been modified with a new mounting flange, and put into old Fords for many years. And now Neal is making the Hudson-style boxes brand new so folks don't need to scrounge for hard to find Hudsons. Ted, I really doubt there is much reverse engineering someone would steal from your new box to make a copy of a Hudson box.

Let me tell you I am the last person to gloss over the theft of a product I designed, as I personally made custom dash panels and had someone from Australia steal my exact design and sell them as their own. But I don't believe the worry of someone looking at the inside of a steering box they bought from you is a reason to not fix the problem. Or even refund the money if they can't get it to work.

[glennpm]

Thank you and now it's time to get John Greco a couple of good 34 boxes.

Glenn

[T Scott]

Interesting reading all this stuff. First, why would anyone buy a steering box that you were not supposed to take apart? That's contrary to everything in this hobby. The true Ford aficionado takes everything apart at some time or another, either to repair/rebuild, improve or to understand the respective mechanism. Secondly, with respect to reverse engineering, this is pretty basic stuff, and there are other more lucrative devises out there that could be reverse engineered if one was into that. By the time someone took one of these apart and created the drawings, secured a pattern maker, spec'd the components, cast and then machined the casting, machined the end caps and on and on, there is considerable investment here. Good return on investment? I don't think so.

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by T Scott

Interesting reading all this stuff. First, why would anyone buy a steering box that you were not supposed to take apart? That's contrary to everything in this hobby. The true Ford aficionado takes everything apart at some time or another, either to repair/rebuild, improve or to understand the respective mechanism. Secondly, with respect to reverse engineering, this is pretty basic stuff, and there are other more lucrative devises out there that could be reverse engineered if one was into that. By the time someone took one of these apart and created the drawings, secured a pattern maker, spec'd the components, cast and then machined the casting, machined the end caps and on and on, there is considerable investment here. Good return on investment? I don't think so.

Mr T Scott completely blows that "REVERSE ENGINEERING" B/S idea completely out of the water. Well-said, Sir!

Coop

.

[tubman]

Originally Posted by V8COOPMAN

Mr T Scott completely blows that "REVERSE ENGINEERING" B/S idea completely out of the water. Well-said, Sir!

Coop

.

As well as the "but he took it apart" wah-wah.

[cas3]

I have an idea. I think both Neil and Ted should each send me one of their boxes, and I put one in each of my 34's, and run them for a decade or so and report back here which one is best, for free of coarse. What do ya think?

[Mart]

I don't have an axe to grind in this, but if you make and sell something, anyone can buy it, even those that may be your competitors. I worked for a car manufacturer and there was a department that would strip down competitors cars and do a cost breakdown on every component.

[FlatheadTed]

T Scotts correct on that , its not cost effective ,not even for me ,But what about the Manufacturer's warranty and the conditions likely attached , , well put it this way its 1934 you are 19 you have worked hard at you paper round after class , you say to your self I am gonna get me one of those new beautiful 34 Ford Roadsters you turn up to the local Ford dealer, well Henry Ford just happens to be visiting that day Son he says since you like the Ford idea so much we will give you a 12 month Warranty on all repairs plus two carburetors and cam out of our experimental front wheel drive , indianapolis race car I will even sign the dash .Hes more than happy its jet black .He drives the wheels of it smokes every one of at the one traffic light in town hes the talk of the town ,after about six months he hears a noise in the motor he asks his neighbor as hes seen him fixing his model T pick up and briggs and stratton lawn mower at times on the front lawn .The neighbour says its likely a bearing he ,pulls the motor to bits pan etc , I am scratching my head on this one he says ,they load up the neighbours old model T with the parts ( named Shake rattle and Roll ) .The 19 year old says can I crank the T as I remember how you said to cup you hand back wards on the handle to avoid a broken wrist ,with a belch of smoke she fires into life and they head off, they arrive at the dealer with two boxes of Engine bits ,the dealer looks in the back yiks ! he says , he becons his chief mechanic, over the next few days they re assemble it ,he calls the owner ,and says Sorry son this ones on you .
Any way we also have fixed that stiff steering you complained about also ,Lucky The engine noise was just a loose pump push rod bush .

[FlatheadTed]

Most of you would know this but there are quite a few things that can cause steering to feel loose other than the box ,I have read some of easy steers complaints of looseness on the Model A site,I don't think any manufacturer set out to sell a loose box ,So i thought there's something else going on there,
I was asked recently how to tighten a early Model A box as the owner said the steering wheel has some play .It goes down the road constantly having to correct the steering I suggested turning up a eccentric sector bush to bring the sector closer to the worm ,But then after thinking about it suggested its most likely his wheel alignment or maybe caster ,I went on to explain to him how a bicycle can go down the road with the riders hands off the bars and track straight ,that's because of the caster (steering pivot line is farther forward at the lower compared to the top .and a alignment issue can steer with Either wheel , minior left and right .The next time I saw him he said it was exactly as you said got a wheel alignment and now drives great ,