Cant get clutch to disengage after replacing clutch

[Rpanno]

Originally Posted by Karl Wolf

My avatar is a 1930 frame, 59ab engine, "39" trans case, 1932 crossmember and pedals. I made a forgery arm to go on the clutch release shaft which absolutely needed the 2 3/8" offset... So that the clutch pedal to arm rod would operate in a straight line... ( I have seen people try to do this by bending the rod)

Anyhow, if there's something that you would like me to measure, feel free to ask.

Karl

Well that is the exact set up I have! Sounds to me like the release lever arm may have never worked properly.

Now that you mention it there is a slight curve to the clutch rod...oddly though it is towards the drivers side. Which leads me to believe that with more lever offset I would need the rod to be even further towards the driver side.

[Rpanno]

Originally Posted by Mart

Just something to think about if you are contemplating shortening the effective length of the lever - Is the clutch pretty light to release at the moment?? If it is light, you could tolerate it being a bit heavier when you shorten the lever. If it is heavy, it will be heavier still when the arm gets shortened.

Mart.

Me being relatively uneducated in this arena, I assume you are referring to pedal feel?

If so, the clutch pedal already feels heavier than it did before the disk swap. If you are saying that it is going to get heavier and that inherently is not a great outcome then what other means is there to increase throw.

My original post states that my current limitation is the top of the clutch release rm hitting the bell housing. From the more recent posts it appears that I may need more offset in the release lever to clear the bell housing on the drivers side.

Also, I will need to measure this 30 degree rotation as I hadn't heard anything about that before...I have to assume that

[CT AV8]

Ryan,
I just measured ours and we followed the 2 3/8" offset and 4 7/8" length. The offset is as Karl says, absolutely necessary to clear the bell housing. We used a repro K-member from Vern to fit a Model A frame and not an original '32 cut down. I can tell you that depending on exactly where the member is set in the frame fore and aft, it will affect the angle of the "K" legs slightly, but enough to shift the '32 pedal box left or right.
The other thing is we have an 8BA with an 8RT bell....this may be slightly different than your's and Karl's 49 AB

[Rpanno]

Originally Posted by CT AV8

Ryan,
I just measured ours and we followed the 2 3/8" offset and 4 7/8" length. The offset is as Karl says, absolutely necessary to clear the bell housing. We used a repro K-member from Vern to fit a Model A frame and not an original '32 cut down. I can tell you that depending on exactly where the member is set in the frame fore and aft, it will affect the angle of the "K" legs slightly, but enough to shift the '32 pedal box left or right.
The other thing is we have an 8BA with an 8RT bell....this may be slightly different than your's and Karl's 49 AB

Well I just took mine off and I'm not sure if you can see in the pictures but center to center my arm is 4.5" and the offset from each center line is 1.5".

Obviously, these aren't anywhere close to what Karl has. When I was just removing this arm I noticed some loose linkage between the clutch release lever rod (7521) and the clevis release pin (7533). I'm not sure if there is enough there to prevent full disengagement but I'm going to replace it and see if that gets me any closer.

I was thinking more offset in the lever arm would be the answer but given the pedal location I can't see how I could overcome more offset as it appears the clutch release lever rod is already slightly bent to the passenger side to accommodate arms 1.5" offset. Pedal location is tucked into the "leg" of the "K" if that makes any sense and is mounted to the cross member section which is perpendicular to the frame rails. It is almost as if I need more offset in both the release arm lever and the clutch release lever rod?

[CT AV8]

That piece wouldn't work on my setup. Your pedal box must be set more to the passenger side than mine or Karl's.

[Rpanno]

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Originally Posted by CT AV8

That piece wouldn't work on my setup. Your pedal box must be set more to the passenger side than mine or Karl's.

Ahh, I have '33-'34 pedals. I didn't realize how big of a difference there is between the 2. In shopping for new brake/clutch pedal shaft and bushings '32-'34 use the same parts. Your clutch pedal rod goes between the brake and clutch pedal whereas on my set up there is an offset arm on the top of the clutch pedal pushing the adjustable clutch rod towards the passenger side.

Now to see which measurements I need for '33-'34 pedal!

If I haven't mentioned it yet, you guys are great, thanks for all the help/pics/knowledge!

[Mart]

As your lever is a home made job, it sounds like it isn't "clocked right to the shaft. In the clutch engaged position, with play taken out, it should be somewhere around the 1 O'Clock position, (when viewed on the end of the shaft). When releasing it will travel past the 12 O'Clock position at the middle of the travel and end up at about the 11 O'Clock position when fully released.

These are not exact angles, what I am trying to say is it should be vertical (12 O'Clock at about half travel.

The lever needs to have enough offset in it so it aligns with the pedal, and does not foul the bellhousing area.

If you can rework your lever to comply with the above, you should be able to achieve a clean release on the clutch. If it does release cleanly you may be able to even lengthen the lever a little, and still achieve release but lighten the pedal load slightly.

It would probably help if you could post some decent pics of the parts all in place. Something like the ones above would be very helpful.

Mart.

[Rpanno]

Originally Posted by Mart

As your lever is a home made job, it sounds like it isn't "clocked right to the shaft. In the clutch engaged position, with play taken out, it should be somewhere around the 1 O'Clock position, (when viewed on the end of the shaft). When releasing it will travel past the 12 O'Clock position at the middle of the travel and end up at about the 11 O'Clock position when fully released.

These are not exact angles, what I am trying to say is it should be vertical (12 O'Clock at about half travel.

The lever needs to have enough offset in it so it aligns with the pedal, and does not foul the bellhousing area.

If you can rework your lever to comply with the above, you should be able to achieve a clean release on the clutch. If it does release cleanly you may be able to even lengthen the lever a little, and still achieve release but lighten the pedal load slightly.

It would probably help if you could post some decent pics of the parts all in place. Something like the ones above would be very helpful.

Mart.

I think you are right on the money! When the clutch is fully engaged (pedal not depressed at all) the arm position is at 12 o'clock or maybe even 11:30 as I have to slightly push the arm forward to line up the adjusting fork when the 1" of pedal freeplay is dialed in. I came across a picture last on another thread last night showing a release arm hooked up and the rotation to the read of the car at about 1:30 was a dead give away that this may be my problem.

Its just odd to be doing projects like these and after replacing worn parts new problems arise probably because it never worked correctly and was only operable because of the severely worn clutch disk. Looks like a trip to the local welder for a little modification is in order.

And thanks again to those of you who kept taking pics of your set up and actually trying to understand my problem. I'm beyond excited that I don't need to pull the engine/tranny to fix this.

[George/Maine]

I was looking at the graft you posted. The figure of 4 1/2" long is wrong.
There were only so many 39 levers to go around.
The 39 had a shorted distance think it was closer to 3 1/2", shorter gives more travel.
The bent to drivers side is the align better.

[Mart]

If you don't have a 32 pedal, and have a 34 pedal, you will need a lever that is the same length as a 34 lever. I don't know how different the pedals are, but if the levers are different, then the pedals should also be different.

Mart.

[CT AV8]

Something that you could try that is really easy would be to just drill another hole below the current one and see if it gives enough travel to fully disengage the clutch

[Rpanno]

Originally Posted by CT AV8

Something that you could try that is really easy would be to just drill another hole below the current one and see if it gives enough travel to fully disengage the clutch

I think I would have to cut the top of the arm off to make any difference since my current limitation is the top of the arm hitting the bell housing. So any hole drilled along that arm would still create the same relative rotation on the clutch release shaft no matter where the hole is located/attached.

I think the arm needs to be modified to alter the arm angle maybe 30 degrees towards the rear of the car when the clutch is completely engaged and pedal free play is adjusted to the recommended 1-1.5".

I have tried searching but it seems a little difficult to locate dimensions for the release arm specs for the '33-'34's.

[G.M.]

To many posts to get all the details. Make sure your home made clutch linkage has the full travel including top free play to fully operate the clutch. You can remove the inspection plate on the trans and see if there is clearance between the clutch plate, pressure plate and flywheel when the clutch is fully depressed. Remove the linkage off the transmission, get a big wrench and move the clutch arm at the trans. Have someone look inside the see if it's releasing, if not you have an internal problem. G.M.

[Rpanno]

Well after all of the linkage ideas we tested the travel of the lever and release shaft assembly by mouning the lever upside down and ratcheting the lever towards the rear of the car. Started the car up and at maximum travel the clutch still didn't fully disengage.

Long story short we pulled the engine and removed the pressure plate/clutch assembly and will be addressing whatever tolerances are off there. Likely send pressure plate off for rebuild or new one as core charge. There may still be pitfalls in the linkage assembly as there is evidence of the lever having made repeated contact with the bell housing and a transmission bolt in the past.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

[machine girl]

just had the same problem, someone installed the clutch fork backwards

[Rpanno]

Well I would like to think we're past half way in this journey but I probably won't know until I hear back from you guys.

Ended up changing to a new pressure plate as one of the fingers was clearly not releasing. Also, changed pilot bearing since it felt a little chunky and it appeared that even when the new pressure plate released the clutch was still spinning. Additionally, I put in an original '33-'34 shift lever which seems to clear pretty much everything in that area much better than the one-off piece that was in there.

Now I can shift just fine but only in a "sweet spot" in the clutch pedal. If I press the pedal all the ay to the floor the clutch starts to engage again and begins to spin with the flywheel. I think I could adjust the linkage to bottom out the pedal sooner but at the expense of free play in the pedal. Has anyone had experience with the clutch pedal overly disengaging the clutch to the point that something gets traction again and causes the clutch to start spinning in the last 1"-2" of clutch pedal range of motion?

I feel so close to the finish line on what began as a weekend project (its been a month) yet so far away without knowing what to do about the clutch linkage?!?

You all have been great so far, I know someone here can get me across the finish line!

Thanks,
Ryan

[George/Maine]

Sound like the pins aren't in right place.
When the pedal is half way down, the pivot should be at highest point, should be at 12 o'clock. Same goes for the fork. Just before it hits the throw-out bearing by feel.
Try and get them as close to 11 and 1 o'clock, 1 being to back.
If still doesn't work right 39 lever is shorter 3 1/2"

[Rpanno]

Well, we have replaced the pilot bearing after we realized it may have been pressed in slightly out of alignment and appeared to be binding up on the main drive gear. Tried a '33-'34 arm since that is the pedal set up in use.

As of late yesterday we have a semi-working arm that was modified from the one-off job that the original owner had fabricated. It works pretty close to normal but it is about 4.5" center to center. Everything is ok in the pedal but not great. We have about 2" pedal free play and get complete disengagement about 1" before the floor. The biggest issue is that the last 1" of travel re-engages the clutch as the TO bearing hits the clutch collar and pushes it back into the flywheel which is surprising but the pedal pressure is sufficient to spins the clutch.

I was thinking the problem may be that I don't have pedal bumpers but they don't appear to be thick enough to prevent the last 1" or so of pedal travel. I have read that the TO bearing should ride .100" off of the pressure plate release fingers but when the linkage is connected and free play minimized that moves the release arm forward to much closer to 12 o'clock. I was contemplating rigging up an even longer arm but it seems that this arm is already on the long end of release arms?

[George/Maine]

I would try to adjust for 1" up top so you don't over drive throw-out bearing.
As long as you are not hitting bearing when driving 1" should be ok.

[1931 flamingo]

Did you adj the fingers on the pressure plate that the t/out brg contacts??
Paul in CT