49-e51 Mercury oil pan

[HCO41]

I have gotten one of these pans for use in putting a 8ba style engine in my '37 coupe. The pan was listed as one of the components needed for this conversion along with commercial water pumps etc.
My question: Why did Ford (Mercury) find it necessary to tie the starter plate to the pan on these engines? Is it necessary to do this for the conversion I described? If I don't need to use this feature, and use the truck or Mercury half bell housing, what starter plate is the best to use?
Howard

[Walt Dupont--Me.]

There was a thread on here a few month ago with pic of all the different bell housings and the starter plates to go with them. Maybe someone on here can make those pic come up again. Walt

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by Walt Dupont--Me.

There was a thread on here a few month ago with pic of all the different bell housings and the starter plates to go with them. Maybe someone on here can make those pic come up again. Walt

Here it is...a wealth of information....click the link! DD

http://www.flatheadv8.org/bellhousing.pdf

[HCO41]

I've got the above info., in fact I printed it out and have it in a binder. I just wondered why Mercury used this setup. Was it to better support the starter instead of using the pan rail support used by Ford? I know the matching part is the starter plate with the angled piece with three holes to match the three studs on the pan. I wondered if this paired setup was necessary ie. can other starter plates be used and the studs in pan be ignored? As I understand it, the benefit of this pan, with sump in the rear, is the clearance it provides between it and the tie rod.
Howard

[Ross F-1]

I have what I believe is the same pan in my truck, with three bolts coming down out of the sump? I always heard they were to reinforce the stamped steel bellhousings? But truck oil pans have an even stouter connection to their cast iron BH's. Could one of you Car guys post up what the piece that connects to the Merc pan looks like? Or are you saying the starter plate connects to the three studs? I've been running with nothing connected for 10+ years, no apparent problems.

[HCO41]

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Ross, the starter plate that goes with the 3 stud pan has an angled piece attached with three holes that index the three studs on the pan. What you say regarding the need for rigidity because of the stamped 1/2 bell housing makes sense. I plan to use same functional piece (1/2 bell) from the truck which is cast iron. One of the posts above has a link to a very good file showing all of the different bell housings, starter plates and oil pans used by Ford cars and trucks including those used by Mercury. As I remember, if you place your cursur on an icon shown with the part, there's a description of its use and matching parts.
Howard

[Ross F-1]

Huh, I've looked at that linked page many times before, never paid any attention to the starter plates with the extension. Guess I'll be making a separate piece to tie the BH to the pan...

[rotorwrench]

The mid century Mercury cars were getting heavy for a flathead V8. They used the Borg & Beck clutch to have a bigger surface area like a pickup 10-inch but with smoother operation. All they had was an angle plate to tie the bell housing & pan together with the three studs and the bottom two bolts of the half bell with starter plate. In the mid 51 model year, they dropped the steel pressing for a cast iron full bell housing so they could change to the new transmissions developed for the 51 model year (they have new style diamond shape gear teeth and the standard Borg Warner narrow 4-bolt bolt patern).

The pickup & truck pans are deeper and have the large aluminum rear seal support. This was a truck only thing. They also felt that the cast iron housing was strong enough for the truck configurations plus the Mercury style pan to bell reinforcement would have interfered with the deep sump clean out type truck pan.

The standard half bell steel pressing should work fine without the reinforcement on a light body car. They worked fine on the F1 pickups with a 10-inch Long type clutch & standard 8BA type pickup pan.

[Ross F-1]

The trucks do have essentially the same thing, just that the pan bolts directly to the two or three bolts on the starter plate/BH. It's very stout.

[V8 Bob]

I think Ford felt the '49-'50/early '51 Merc stamped steel round pattern 1/2 bell needed more support on the lower half because it extended below the block, and the reason, imo, for the special starter plate with the angle bracket that bolts to the Merc oil pan's 3 studs.
The '48-'52 trucks with the cast iron 1/2 bell also had extra support by having the lower portion of the starter plate bolted to the rear of the truck oil pan and through the lower 1/2 bell.
Pictures starting at #29 of the link posted above will show how these parts go together.

[19Fordy]

Here's a photo of a 50 Merc oil pan and starter plate attached to a 50 Merc stamped steel bell housing with a 40 Ford transmission. Maybe it will help someone.

[Ross F-1]

Thanks Fordy! Does anyone have an unneeded bracket like that FS?

[rotorwrench]

I've seen some of the Mercury L-brackets that are separate from the starter plate but most are spot welded to the starter plate. Many of the early pickups have no bracket at all and you see these on flea-pay a lot. The 53 pickup pan didn't have the bracket either. Most all the larger trucks have the clean out type pan with the built in reinforcement that is not separate from the pan and they usually have the cast iron half bell with the 11-inch Long clutch.

[Ross F-1]

I can see why a '53 truck wouldn't need the bracket, with its motor mounts on the BH. Which trucks do you mean by "early" trucks with no bracket?

[rotorwrench]

Some of the early 48 F1 pickups with light duty 3-speed. I've only seen a few that don't have the clean out plate set up. Most of the larger ones have the clean out.

[V8 Bob]

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

I've seen some of the Mercury L-brackets that are separate from the starter plate but most are spot welded to the starter plate. Many of the early pickups have no bracket at all and you see these on flea-pay a lot. The 53 pickup pan didn't have the bracket either. Most all the larger trucks have the clean out type pan with the built in reinforcement that is not separate from the pan and they usually have the cast iron half bell with the 11-inch Long clutch.

All the '49-'50/early'51 Mercury starter plates should have the angle bracket as part of the plate, and not separate, at least on all I have, or have ever seen in print/pictures.
The '48-'52 truck starter plates have no angle bracket that I'm aware of; these (2 styles) are either flat, or with an indent/recess for the aluminum HD rear seal retainer.
The '53-up trucks had an entirely different modern-style bell housing/starter plate design that was part of a 3-point engine mounting system; the transmission now "floated" or hung off the bell housing.

[HCO41]

I've found that the pan I have isn't usable. I started cleaning it up and found two hole repairs fixed with brass. I ground out brass and welded in steel patches. I continued with the clean up knowing that it had partially filled with water for some time. I found another brass repair and also noticed that pan rail was eroded and had a dip in it from the water line to the front end of the pan. The front seal retainer was also tender.
Does anyone know a source for one of these pans? I could also use matching starter plate if available.
Thanks to all,
Howard

[HCO41]

In case any of you read what was here, I was wrong. 19fordy does, in fact, have an excellent picture showing the Mercury oil pan with correct starter plate. This is the setup I'm trying to find for my 8ba type engine to my '37. I have the truck cast iron half bell that will work with the Mercury starter plate.
Howard

[s nichols]

i may have that pan send picture steve

[HCO41]

S nickols, I sent you a PM.
Thanks,
Howard