Losing Oil Pressure

[Bruce Lancaster]

Ok, that one is correct...the one pan the differs from usual flathead sumps because of the steering linkage in the shoebox Ford! Merc and F1's kept the basic early sump shape and remained at 5. I haven't been watching the press releases on these late-model Fords, obviously! The only later Ford engines I've messed with all had the 8BA pan immediately discarded for truck or merc parts to fit into an early!

[Karl Wolf]

I have a (bought used by me) 59AB that I ran for a while, did the same thing... I pulled the drain plug, pulled the pick up down- that fixed the problem...

Karl

[BILL WZOREK]

Originally Posted by TomT/Williamsburg

Yes to everything - you've seen and heard this engine ....

Pan was off to redo the clutch and pressure plate, pan seals, used a 1-pc front seal.

Tom: was the engine out of the car when you removed & reinstalled the pan ?
or was it still in the car ?

Also did you do this part of the work or was it done by others?
Either way is it possible that the oil pick up got Hit & bent ?
( I don't think it could bend that way but who knows )

This part I am not trying to be a smart Alek but is it at all possible you got called away when putting the oil back in & only got 3 Qt's in.

If you haven't dropped the oil yet why don't you do that & measure how much comes out.
Then put in the amount you normally do and see what happens.
I know oil is not cheap but it may be as simple as that.

[chap52]

Eventually you will be laying on the floor looking up at the bottom of the engine...Listen to Bill Wzorek and start by finding out how much oil is in the engine. You will be draining it to drop the pan anyway. And if its a new batch filter it through a nylon stocking and put it back in the engine. (Old 1960's flashback)
I am sure you won't be starting it up just to see if it fixed itself overnight. None of us have ever done that!
I leaning towards a bent or cracked pick up tube.
Good luck, keep us posted.

[supereal]

We routinely braze the pickup tube to the oil pump. The swedged connection has a nasty habit of working loose. As to oil level, five quarts doesn't cause a problem, but if you are having an oil leak at the rear main seal, or have the slinger type "seal", four quarts will usually stem the leak before it lubricates your clutch disk.

[TomT/Williamsburg]

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Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Tom: was the engine out of the car when you removed & reinstalled the pan ?
or was it still in the car ?

Also did you do this part of the work or was it done by others?
Either way is it possible that the oil pick up got Hit & bent ?
( I don't think it could bend that way but who knows )

This part I am not trying to be a smart Alek but is it at all possible you got called away when putting the oil back in & only got 3 Qt's in.

If you haven't dropped the oil yet why don't you do that & measure how much comes out.
Then put in the amount you normally do and see what happens.
I know oil is not cheap but it may be as simple as that.

Bill - engine was out, upside down on an engine stand. I do not remember the pump getting bumped or anything else. As for the amount of oil installed, I always buy a 5 qt container, pour off 1 qt for "on the road" use to an empty 1 qt container, I add zddp to the 4 qt balance and it's ready. The 4 qt balance in the container is labeled "zddp ready". So, I know 4 qts were installed. I have not seen anything underneath the car save for the normal couple drops of any flathead marking its territory.

I have not had time to do squat lately but I hope to at least drop the oil and check where the pickup is in the next day or so .... I will keep you all posted ....

Thanks a bunch guys - I really appreciate the suggestions.

[El Rat]

Well I wonder how many folks have actually taken a clean pan leveled it and added 5 quarts? It's an old racer trick...obviously you don't want to run the crank in the oil. I digress, it seems to me that the pick-up has moved, cracked, fallen off or some such. The pump may also have loosened up. Regardless pull the pan. One must ask: How much oil is held up in the filter? Does it seem reasonable that 5 quarts would be perfect with or without?
As an aside my AB does just fine with 4 quarts and I don't use a filter for anything except small parts storage. Actually excellent for that does requir short tools. g

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Dropped the oil in the roadster to see if there is anything amiss with the oil pump. It seems fine, not loose nor did the pickup drop down. So what I may do is run some slick 50 and/or stp to coat the parts and give it some additional oil other than the normal 4 QTS I put in. I changed thermos to 180s vs the 160s so she does not allow warm water through the block until a higher temp. Because it's an open engine compartment it never really gets above 150 normally. Would that impede oil flow in cold weather running 20-50? Maybe I should run the Rotella in the winter? What gets me it never did this before and the only real change is different thermos.
Your thoughts?

[VeryTangled]

Hi Tom, Isn't the one real change that you got thumped in the rear?

Couldn't quite follow if the clutch work was prior to the other work, or during. (If prior to the other work, then you're saying it was running fine after the clutch job. If during the other work then the clutch/pan could still be part of the puzzle.)

But my sense is a oil pickup issue because you're pretty confident about the quantity issue. You're happy going straight, the system functions then. What happens when you turn? You get that slosh to the outside of the turn in the oil pan, and... gurk, metal-on-metal.

Maybe you could simulate things safely? Put one side of the car up on jackstands simulating the corner, spin the engine without starting, and see what the pressure is. At least that confirms your seat-of-the-pants experience. I can't decide if that's stupid or not.

Also, let's say you're sucking air into the pump instead of oil, wouldn't that foam up the oil? Is there any way to safely investigate that? I guess not because you'd have to drive it to do that test. Hmmm.

Hoping for the best as I follow along.

[EDIT] Changing to the 180 stats gets the engine to that temp quicker, right. That takes your multi-vis oil to it's hot rating quicker, which is SAE-50. With the SAE-50 oil, shouldn't the pressure be up just a tick over something thinner, like SAE-30 or SAE-40? So I don't think the stats or viscosity ratings are part of the puzzle. Thicker oil means higher resistance means higher pressure, eh? (If that is correct, pressure should come up naturally as the oil transitions from the SAE-20 (thin/cold) to the SAE-50.) It seems to me that some of the old hands speak more of flow quantity than of pressure. Regardless I'm on the side that your issue is oil starvation.

[BILL WZOREK]

Tom I know you have always run 4 Qt's of oil but just for S???? & Giggles why don't you try 1 extra Qt to see if any thing improves.
Also did you measure to see if you got 4 QT'S OUT ?
Ok here is another thought every thing was cool before you got rear ended.
Is it at all possible that when every thing got pushed forward that there was enough stress put on the Crank & Block that it caused a crack some where in the oil passages that is now starting to raze it's ugly head ?
New parts causing different harmonic vibrations causing the crack to open.
I hope you can tell me I am all wrong.
I'm very interested in what it is that you find.

[Ross F-1]

Is there any chance that getting hit damaged the oil pressure gauge itself, or the line running to it? Stranger things have happened.

I wouldn't cloud the issue with Slick 50 or STP, just add a quart of whatever you're running.

[BILL WZOREK]

Tom
Oil gauge Mechanical or Electrical ?
If Electrical what would a loose wire connection or a intermittent short caused by the wire moving about and touching metal as the body leaned left or right do ??

[VeryTangled]

Originally Posted by TomT/Williamsburg

BTW - my oil pressure gauge is under my dash, is mechanical, and has a rather long run to the block using a braided steel line.

From post #1, Sorry Bill about the electrics on the gauge, good thought.

Still could be something wonky with the gauge (or even the long braided steel line), but he hears something different at the same time the gauge goes low.

[big job]

any one mention a broken pressure relief valve spring?. or being sticky- that would
by pass a lot of oil....

[Ross F-1]

Originally Posted by big job

any one mention a broken pressure relief valve spring?. or being sticky- that would
by pass a lot of oil....

Not mentioned, not sure how it would be affected by turns or coming to a stop.

[big job]

Originally Posted by Ross F-1

Not mentioned, not sure how it would be affected by turns or coming to a stop.

whoops I forgot about the turning part so then the pump is cavitating; right
so i'd start with the pick up tube (too high/cracked or something) OR get
this; back when my father in law bought a used country squire LTD
with the common 302 OD. OK so he comes to our shop no way its cooked.
oil light on I put mechanical gauge a fat -0- dip stick says full. Then after
some serious thought; I said whoa, I checked the oil stick on the front (near
the alternator) This is not where the stick is suppose to be. Should be near
the master cylinder cause this has the double pan=the sump is the rear and
the front sump holds a quart- S0 somebody put an earlier 302 in there.
It ran out of oil early 302 dip stick in the timing cover/ later to present
left rear. I'm just sayin

sam

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Tom
Oil gauge Mechanical or Electrical ?
If Electrical what would a loose wire connection or a intermittent short caused by the wire moving about and touching metal as the body leaned left or right do ??

Mechanical gauge .... been there and done that mistake on a 454 I built years ago! Thanks, Bill...

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Tom I know you have always run 4 Qt's of oil but just for S???? & Giggles why don't you try 1 extra Qt to see if any thing improves.
Also did you measure to see if you got 4 QT'S OUT ?
Ok here is another thought every thing was cool before you got rear ended.
Is it at all possible that when every thing got pushed forward that there was enough stress put on the Crank & Block that it caused a crack some where in the oil passages that is now starting to raze it's ugly head ?
New parts causing different harmonic vibrations causing the crack to open.
I hope you can tell me I am all wrong.
I'm very interested in what it is that you find.

Sorry I have not - got folks in from out of town, everyone has been sick and now I am getting it.

As for oil pump damage from the hit - I drove this car home from Massachusetts to Williamsburg after the accident with no oil pressure issues. However, could the pump be losing prime?

Well, I will strain the oil and see what I might find for any metal. For S and Gs I will refill with fresh oil and try some additional oil - probably 1/2 Qt to start with and see what happens. Then I will go from there ....

Thanks Gents - I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Originally Posted by BILL WZOREK

Tom I know you have always run 4 Qt's of oil but just for S???? & Giggles why don't you try 1 extra Qt to see if any thing improves.
Also did you measure to see if you got 4 QT'S OUT ?
Ok here is another thought every thing was cool before you got rear ended.
Is it at all possible that when every thing got pushed forward that there was enough stress put on the Crank & Block that it caused a crack some where in the oil passages that is now starting to raze it's ugly head ?
New parts causing different harmonic vibrations causing the crack to open.
I hope you can tell me I am all wrong.
I'm very interested in what it is that you find.

Sorry I have not - got folks in from out of town, everyone has been sick and now I am getting it.

As for oil pump damage from the hit - I drove this car home from Massachusetts to Williamsburg after the accident with no oil pressure issues. Could the pump be losing prime?

Well, I will strain the oil and see what I might find for any metal. For S and Gs I will refill with fresh oil and try some additional oil - probably 1/2 Qt to start with and see what happens, watching the OP gauge. Then I will go from there ....

Thanks Gents - I APPRECIATE YOUR HELP!

[TomT/Williamsburg]

Keepin y'all posted .....

I have filled my car with 4 qts of Rotella 15-40 and 1/2 qt of STP for 4.5 qts total. Remember I do not run a filter. Just ran it around the block 2-3 times before the rains came. Although my oil pressure dropped to 0, to this point, it quickly recovered when given the gas and no engine noise. So, that seems normal to me, especially when you consider the Rotella is a thinner oil than the 20-50 I was running. Checking the dipstick, I am just slightly over the full line.

Looking at the oil I drained I see no indication of any metal pcs but I have to inspect it some more. I also measured the amount of oil I took out and it was at 3.5 qts about - I could swear I put in 4 qts but you never know - I could be wrong.

So far in the short run things seem "more" normal - I will post more when the weather breaks and I get a chance to drive it a medium distance.