Putting Drums back on

[36and63]

From the pictures posted yesterday of the key vs. what you posted today it appears that the key was ground or modified? It still is incorrect, the chamfer is opposite of what you want, you need to turn it 180 degrees and flip it over. The chamfer should be on the bottom towards the center of the axle. The end of the axle is tapered and if the key is wrong will push toward the center as you tighten. The chamfer on the key when correct prevents the key from riding up the axle as you tighten.

[Gary in La.]

In addition to what Andy pointed out as to the shoes being installed wrong,your biggest problem is that you have the parking brake lever installed on the outside of the shoe . It needs to go on the inside of the shoe. Note your cable routing crosses the bottom of the shoe and it should be on the inside where there is no interference. With the brakes correctly installed I think you will solve the problem with the drum interference. With the brake lever on the outside of the shoe you are creating a no space situation with the hub. the thickness of the lever will keep the hub from seating.

[Mart]

Originally Posted by Andy

I am very hesitant to offer bad news. The shoes are on backwards as well as the emergency brake stuff. I just checked with the green bible. Everything big always goes forward. The big end of the cylinders and the long shoes. The cylinders are on right. Start by switching the shoes and brakes. Maybe there is an interferance with the emergency brake stuff.

I have to agree with Andy.

The shoes are wrong, long lining should be to the front. But that wouldn't stop the hub and drum going on.

In situations like this, you can ask 100 questions and not get the answer. You are the man with direct access to the problem and you can solve it yourself. Think about what you would have done 20 years ago. You have to be methodical and look closely and carefully at what is happening.

This is what I would do.

You have 4 possible problems identified.
1, The key.
2, Shoes on backwards.
3, Shoes not adjusted right.
4, Emergency brake parts not on right.

I would remove all the shoes and the handbrake parts. I would fit the hub and see if it fits flush. If it does the keyway is ok. If it don't the keyway is the problem.

I would then fit the shoes the right way round, with the adjusters fully released without the handbrake parts. Same applies, it either fits or it don't. Remedy as necessary if it don't go on.

Then assuming all is well, I would fit the handbrake mechanism and ensure the hub still fits properly.

Obviously as soon as the culprit is found and remedied, the other steps can be skipped and the whole thing fully assembled.

Mart.

[George/Maine]

Originally Posted by em1davis

Well the Key was not my problem, the shoes don't appear to be the problem since I can spin the hub by hand and not feel the shoes dragging.

You can see in the picture how far the bearing reaching before it binds by the grease mark.

Any other thoughts.

Or anybody in the Austin, TX area want to swing by in the near future.

Thanks
Jason

Now you know what the problem is ,as posted yesterday #13
Parking brake lever is on out side.
So that means you will remove both sides and switch levers.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

Now you know what the problem is ,as posted yesterday #13
Parking brake lever is on out side.
So that means you will remove both sides and switch levers.

Emdavis,
Your wheel cylinder and brake levers are installed correctly per your photos in post #11.
To reiterate my earlier advice, remove the key and try to fit the drum. If it then goes on, you know where the issue is.
I can't tell from the photos if the shoes are installed incorrectly (long / short linings) but as you know, that would not make a difference when installing a drum.

[Gary in La.]

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Disagree. The brake lever is not correct in the picture of post #11. It is on the outside of the shoe and the cable is binding across the bottom of the shoe. The lever goes to the inside of the shoe which will put the cable where it should be.

[JM 35 Sedan]

I found this brake adjusting information http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/brakeadj.html on Bill B's Techno site with pictures that may help some here understand how shoes, ebrake linkage, wheel cylinders, etc., are assembled at backing plates. BE CAREFUL to understand that one illustrated view is shown as an X-RAY from BEHIND the backing plate. This view may be confusing some into THINKING the ebrake levers go behind the shoes rather than in front of shoes. The next picture down shows a proper view from the front of backing plate with drum/hub removed. Check it out.

http://www.btc-bci.com/~billben/brakeadj.html

[em1davis]

So I did try to place the drum on without the key and it failed.

So with Mart's list above
1) Key -not it
2) Backward Shoes
3) Shoes not adjusted in -
4) E-brake incorrect

I will eliminate them all by removing the shoes completely and go from there.
Thanks for all the help.
Anybody have a picture of the E-brake correctly assembled? This is how I got it from my grandfather George Butcher so I'm rather surprised at all the issues I'm finding.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Jason

[MuskegonFlatheadFan]

Did you replace the grease seals in the hubs? Are they in all the way? The seals that I installed actually pressed into the hubs, kind of negating the need for the retaining ring, but they do need to be seated all the way down.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by Gary in La.

Disagree. The brake lever is not correct in the picture of post #11. It is on the outside of the shoe and the cable is binding across the bottom of the shoe. The lever goes to the inside of the shoe which will put the cable where it should be.

Gary, With all due respect, I must disagree with you. Emdavis has the levers installed correctly.
One thing he does need to address though is that spring on the cable. It is way too long as are all of them on the repop cables.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by em1davis

So I did try to place the drum on without the key and it failed.

So with Mart's list above
1) Key -not it
2) Backward Shoes
3) Shoes not adjusted in -
4) E-brake incorrect

I will eliminate them all by removing the shoes completely and go from there.
Thanks for all the help.
Anybody have a picture of the E-brake correctly assembled? This is how I got it from my grandfather George Butcher so I'm rather surprised at all the issues I'm finding.

Thanks for all the help so far.
Jason

Jason,
You have the levers installed correctly. See John's (Jm35) post with the illustration.
I did (finally) notice that the spring on the cable is too long. The repop cables are poorly made. You will need to shorten that spring.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

Now you know what the problem is ,as posted yesterday #13
Parking brake lever is on out side.
So that means you will remove both sides and switch levers.

Nope...

[Gary in La.]

Kube, you are correct,my apologies. Your picture sheds a better light on the subject. I was looking at the problem from the wrong end. Guess it's been too long since my last brake encounter.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Not too many possibilities left other than placement of seal in hub (as someone else mentioned), overall length of axle is incorrect, or maybe something is wrong with the drum/hub asemby.

[George/Maine]

Look again at JM35 sedan info lever is on "inside" as it should be.
You will have to switch from side to side as there is a left and right lever.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by George/Maine

Look again at JM35 sedan info lever is on "inside" as it should be.
You will have to switch from side to side as there is a left and right lever.

See photo in post #31 - that's the correct installation.

[George/Maine]

If it were correct with 800 posts the drum would go on.
Its wrong.

Right Rear Brake
XRay view From backing plate side.

[em1davis]

Well, here I am again...

Shoes are off, key is out, E-Brake hardware out, and basically an axle and slave cylinder left and drum still won't go on flush.

What is left:
1) Bearing Grease seal? (I don't want to pull that out again)
2) Tapered portion of the axle is warped or the tapered portion of the drum for the axle.
3) Bearings housing (can that be backwards?)
4) ????

Again thanks for all the help. Any of you northern folks want to escape the winter and visit me in texas?

Jason

[Mart]

Have you changed the axle? is it the right length?

Is the drum snugging down on the taper?

If you try the drum from the other side, does that go on?

You can't be too far away from isolating the problem.

Mart.

[George/Maine]

I really have to ask if this is being made from a basket case, or a car that has been running just in for brakes. When I see all new shine parts I wonder.