skip wat6er pumps

[41ford1]

Thanks for the correction in direction. Time to leave well enough alone. Read the plugs all are tan. Runs good, the pumps appear to do what is claimed. Walking away from over analyzing NOW.

[Frank The Plumber]

Spark plugs are very much like marshmallows

[41ford1]

Yup. Tan is when they taste best.

[Mike B]

GM

Question, how would rebuilt stock pumps perform w/o a thermostat, vs. Skips pumps w/o the T-stat?

I read your results of the temps dropping from side to side, but assume that was with the thermostats in place, which oviously shows Skips pumps can push through restrictions better...but I wonder about the stock pumps with out the Thermostat as a restriction?

[41ford1]

Mike,

My before (stock pumps) and after (Skip's) temp readings were taken without stats. Reference post #51. My stock pumps have 6 rectangular impellers vs. the 6 turbine blades on Skip's. The temp measurements show an improvement with Skip's pumps. Granted, I did see an improvement, results in a different vehicle could vary.

[G.M.]

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I just wrote an answer and lost it so here's a quike reply. Thermostats don't cool these engines, just make them run hotter. There are no stats made that will work in 32 to 48 engines with original or Skips pumps because they don't have a large enough opening and restrict the water flow. On 49 to 53 engines prestone #330-160 which have large openings will work all year even in hot weather. Early original stats fit in the hoses and had larger openings but are subject to failure. The brass bellows work harden and split. Stats won't work with the original or Skips 32-48 pumps in warm weather, in winter yes but not when it's hot. The original impellers are paddle wheels slipping and spinning stirring in a lot of air and not able to force enough water through the radiator.
41 thanks for your time and effert in helping support not my claims but the actual improved cooling results these pumps have provided to 1,000s of others. These old Fords in the stock configuration are all the same and the improvements work on all as long as instructions are followed, the system cleaned and the radiator is in reasonable condition. A few people had problems and called Skip and the problem was found and resolved. Grease in the 32 to 36 engine can be a problem. These pumps should not be greased like king pins, just a few shots once a year of a low melting temperature grease. High temperature 500 degree grease pumped in the cooling system will coat and plug the tubes and never melt. Low temp grease melts into a heavy oil and saturates the oil lite bushings. The shaft does not run against the bushings but is supported all the way around in a film of oil never touching each other. 20 % of all 32 to 36 pumps are cracked from the grease pressure from adding too much. Skips welds them and they are like new. Attached is a picture of a cracked pump. G.M.

[Mike B]

Seems like good data to me.

(Reply to 41ford1)

[41ford1]

Here are the temp readings with Skip's recommended mix. That is 2 gallons of Texaco antifreeze, 2 16 oz bottles of Purple Ice, 1 16 bottle of pump lube and corrosion inhibiter(I used a Solder Seal Product) and the Barrs stop leak.
Ambient temp 76° Coolant temp 160. This pretty much matches the straight water readings after the pumps were installed. So far so good.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Well Chuck, I guess we won't be seeing any more of this sort of thing happening on future tours

Originally Posted by 41ford1

Here are the temp readings with Skip's recommended mix. That is 2 gallons of Texaco antifreeze, 2 16 oz bottles of Purple Ice, 1 16 bottle of pump lube and corrosion inhibiter(I used a Solder Seal Product) and the Barrs stop leak.
Ambient temp 76° Coolant temp 160. This pretty much matches the straight water readings after the pumps were installed. So far so good.

[FlatheadTed]

GM .in a previous discussion you said that the stock pump (early ) could not stir in air unless the bushes were loose,what did you mean by this . Could you post some info on what RPM you do your tests at.1000 or 1500 or 3000 .?? as flow is only relevant to RPM .You say the stock pump pumps 55 Gal in 5 min .and your one, 95 ?.Something to consider When you sit in traffic you bring the revs up then temp goes down ,This not only flows more water but speeds up air flow .Ted

Originally Posted by G.M.

I just wrote an answer and lost it so here's a quike reply. Thermostats don't cool these engines, just make them run hotter. There are no stats made that will work in 32 to 48 engines with original or Skips pumps because they don't have a large enough opening and restrict the water flow. On 49 to 53 engines prestone #330-160 which have large openings will work all year even in hot weather. Early original stats fit in the hoses and had larger openings but are subject to failure. The brass bellows work harden and split. Stats won't work with the original or Skips 32-48 pumps in warm weather, in winter yes but not when it's hot. The original impellers are paddle wheels slipping and spinning stirring in a lot of air and not able to force enough water through the radiator.
41 thanks for your time and effert in helping support not my claims but the actual improved cooling results these pumps have provided to 1,000s of others. These old Fords in the stock configuration are all the same and the improvements work on all as long as instructions are followed, the system cleaned and the radiator is in reasonable condition. A few people had problems and called Skip and the problem was found and resolved. Grease in the 32 to 36 engine can be a problem. These pumps should not be greased like king pins, just a few shots once a year of a low melting temperature grease. High temperature 500 degree grease pumped in the cooling system will coat and plug the tubes and never melt. Low temp grease melts into a heavy oil and saturates the oil lite bushings. The shaft does not run against the bushings but is supported all the way around in a film of oil never touching each other. 20 % of all 32 to 36 pumps are cracked from the grease pressure from adding too much. Skips welds them and they are like new. Attached is a picture of a cracked pump. G.M.

[G.M.]

No I never said a pump would suck air in through loose bushings. Someone else stated that and I said it wouldn't happen because of the slight pressure in the coolant system. To reveal the entire test proceedure isn't important, the end results is what counts. Skips pumps are modified to specific standards with close tolances held the same on every pump he does which produces the exact same results on every pump. On a few of these new pumps that are being sold that were sent to Skip to modify after he finished them the test showed a very low amount of water pumped. Upon inspection cast iron deposits were found up in the water passages of the pump on both sides of the center mounting bolt. A hole was drilled in the bottom near the rear of where the hose go's over and a long carbide cutting tool went up in there and removed the rouge casting material. The hole was welded and the pump retested and the flow was what it should be. This restriction would be similar to small thermostats or restrictor washers. G.M.

[41ford1]

John,

The change to Skip's pumps should take care of that problem. I will say I am impressed with the results.

G.M. & Skip,

Thanks for developing a product that works as claimed.

Chuck L.

[FlatheadTed]

GM I am not knocking skips pumps but just curious . I thought it was a fare question to ask what RPM your tests are done at. I have a book here that states that the 32 to 36 pump pumps 125 Gal per 5 min, But your new ones pump 95 ??


G

Originally Posted by G.M.

No I never said a pump would suck air in through loose bushings. Someone else stated that and I said it wouldn't happen because of the slight pressure in the coolant system. To reveal the entire test proceedure isn't important, the end results is what counts. Skips pumps are modified to specific standards with close tolances held the same on every pump he does which produces the exact same results on every pump. On a few of these new pumps that are being sold that were sent to Skip to modify after he finished them the test showed a very low amount of water pumped. Upon inspection cast iron deposits were found up in the water passages of the pump on both sides of the center mounting bolt. A hole was drilled in the bottom near the rear of where the hose go's over and a long carbide cutting tool went up in there and removed the rouge casting material. The hole was welded and the pump retested and the flow was what it should be. This restriction would be similar to small thermostats or restrictor washers. G.M.

[G.M.]

People can write anything in books. If they pumped 125 gallons in 5 minutes stock why do Skips pumps cool better at 92 gallons in 5 minutes? We measured 55 gallons on stock 32 to 36 pumps. I take Skips measurements as more in line with reality as proven by the results. As proven by use of restrictors if the stock pumps pump more they would have cooled better but they don't. With no other improvements it has been proven many times that more water FORCED through the same engine with no improvements or changes other then pumps that deliver almost double the water flow greatly improve the cooling in every case on cars with a 4 lb pressure cap with stock radiators that have provisions for a pressure cap. On earlier models with no provision for a pressure cap a 3 LB check or saftey valve must be used on the over flow tube in order to FORCE the water through the radiator keeping the restriction of the tubes from allowing the water to back up in the tank and excape from the over flow tube. I know this is repetitive but is important everone understands the problem and the fix. G.M.

[FlatheadTed]

GM I don't have problem with any thing that improves the reliability of these old cars ,eg Skips pumps and coils ,But when you say yours do 92 gal in 5 min verses stock 55 its not relevant because you don't give the RPM . In the book I refered to it gives 125 Gal in 5 min .This has been taken from the Ford archives.So what's the RPM so we can appreciate that you did proper scientific study . .In this current discussion you say that the stock pump stirs in air ,but in a previous discussion you said air can only get in through the bushes ,?? Ted

Originally Posted by G.M.

People can write anything in books. If they pumped 125 gallons in 5 minutes stock why do Skips pumps cool better at 92 gallons in 5 minutes? We measured 55 gallons on stock 32 to 36 pumps. I take Skips measurements as more in line with reality as proven by the results. As proven by use of restrictors if the stock pumps pump more they would have cooled better but they don't. With no other improvements it has been proven many times that more water FORCED through the same engine with no improvements or changes other then pumps that deliver almost double the water flow greatly improve the cooling in every case on cars with a 4 lb pressure cap with stock radiators that have provisions for a pressure cap. On earlier models with no provision for a pressure cap a 3 LB check or saftey valve must be used on the over flow tube in order to FORCE the water through the radiator keeping the restriction of the tubes from allowing the water to back up in the tank and excape from the over flow tube. I know this is repetitive but is important everone understands the problem and the fix. G.M.

[barryfromvictoria]

wow! saved from chev engines, keep your wife happy. B.P. should have used skips waterpumps to pump the oil out of the gulf.

[FlatheadTed]

GM I am all for any thing that makes these old Fords run good And Skips pumps and coils do a good job ,So I am not saying that they don't work . As I said the Book that I referred to has Ford Factories data from the archives. The stock pump pumps 125 gal in 5 min .you say yours at 92 gal in 5 min was this at idle or higher revs .The book is The v8 Affair by Ray miller you can see all the data in the back.Cooling has always been a problem in Francis and DeAngelis book they talk about a special equipment Radiator with a four inch core was made available produced by long , in about June 35 how many of these do you still see on cars. They thought more tubes were needed. ,Pressurising a system is a way of getting more out of a undersized or blocked system ,All auto makers have adopted it so it does have some Merritt . The tests I have done prove that the stock pump pumps a lot of water .When temperatures rise at idle you lift the revs temp comes down ,What people forget is that there is more air going through the radiator as well as water .,Also part of the problem was that the pumps were sucking therefore creating a partial vacuum giving the opposite affect of what pressuring does,Emmel Zoriline *found this out in 37 when they first did wind tunnel tests at Ford .
* not sure of spelling

Originally Posted by G.M.

People can write anything in books. If they pumped 125 gallons in 5 minutes stock why do Skips pumps cool better at 92 gallons in 5 minutes? We measured 55 gallons on stock 32 to 36 pumps. I take Skips measurements as more in line with reality as proven by the results. As proven by use of restrictors if the stock pumps pump more they would have cooled better but they don't. With no other improvements it has been proven many times that more water FORCED through the same engine with no improvements or changes other then pumps that deliver almost double the water flow greatly improve the cooling in every case on cars with a 4 lb pressure cap with stock radiators that have provisions for a pressure cap. On earlier models with no provision for a pressure cap a 3 LB check or saftey valve must be used on the over flow tube in order to FORCE the water through the radiator keeping the restriction of the tubes from allowing the water to back up in the tank and excape from the over flow tube. I know this is repetitive but is important everone understands the problem and the fix. G.M.

[G.M.]

Ted with all of Fords testing and these "I thinks" and this is "what should happen" written over the years the part where you said they had some larger radiators that worked but they still didn't know why it worked is logical. The outer surface of the radiator wasn't much larger if any with more tubes so the amount of air over the fins didn't change much but what changed was that with more tubes the restriction of the total amount of area of the opening of all the tubes added together as I described before is greater. With in effect a larger passage through the radiator the restricton was less and more gallons per minute went through the radiator without the back pressure from the restriction of a smaller opening with less tubes. If what you read is correct this was in 1935 and the over flow tube still came off the tank so the tube openings controled the flow until later years when a cap with the "safety valve" was used allowing the water to be forced through. In 35 they also had two differant shaped top tanks, I don't know what this was all about?? I call the early pressure cap a saftey valve because I believe it was used to prevent the water from excapeing at temperatures below where pressure over 3 lbs is produced. I don't know when they started using the "safety" or pressure cap as it is called but I think the bottom seat for a pressure cap in the filler neck started showing up in some 37 radiators but no caps that I have seen until in the 40s. I never researched the caps as to when they started using them but someone else may know the history. I would be more interested on what they used them on first more then the year. I would think big trucks or stationary engines would have been first. There seems to be a disconnect between truck engineers and cars in the area of cooling. I think the problem may have been solved if they were connected more. The truck and people like Schramm didn't completely correct the problem but were close. If they could keep them from boiling over that was great in those days. G.M.

[FlatheadTed]

GM two of My posts don't show up ,so I think its a one way conversation .in the back of the Ford Affair is the specs for the early pumps.125 in 5 min .

[G.M.]

Ted I don't want to reinvent the water pumps again I already spent years on them and I'm sure you have read many of the posts that support the results. If you want more information to support my claims and results do some testing of your own like 41ford1 did and let us know your results. G.M.