The Ford Barn

Dkrahn · 03-22-2022, 07:07 PM

So, I still have the 7 tooth steering in my '29 pickup. I am told it would be easier to steer if I went to the 2 tooth. Well that starts alot more questions. Do, I just need the gears, or what are the other parts I need? Do I need to pull the steering rod completely out, or just up 16 inches out of the way? I have the rod pulled out now, as I am replacing the steering wheel, so I am curious if this is a great time, or I can wait?
Dean

Bob C · 03-22-2022, 07:33 PM

You will need the whole 2 tooth steering column.

Synchro909 · 03-22-2022, 07:35 PM

IMO, the 7 tooth steering box is much maligned for no good reason. A properly rebuilt one is fine and will be for many miles. That said, I realise the situation is very different over there. A 2 tooth box is not easy to find here so 7 tooth ones are more commonly rebuilt.
To answer the question, it is best to take the whole steering column out of the car and if you don't already have one, get a copy of Las Andrews' red book.

WTSHNN · 03-22-2022, 07:45 PM

You will have to replace everything.

You can see the difference between the two here...
https://www.brattons.com/ASSEMBLY-DI.../products/172/

w.michael · 03-22-2022, 11:22 PM

If you find a complete 2-tooth steering box and column, it is going to need to be completely rebuilt. So why not completely rebuild your existing 7-tooth box and column? Properly rebuilt, I don't think you will find one is any better than the other.

I recently had the front end on my '28 rebuilt by a talented machinist, including new king pins, new spindle balls, and tie rod ends; and a new shortened pitman arm, and new drag link ends. Even without rebuilding the steering box, that car, with its 7-tooth steering box, is by far the easiest steering Model A I have driven.

My advice is to rebuild your 7-tooth box, and all of the related steering parts including the pitman arm, drag link, tie rod, and spindle balls.

W. Michael

Lawrie · 03-23-2022, 12:52 AM

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I have the 7 tooth in my A,its been there for years ,but has slowly got loose, As new RH parts for them are not good and hard to get, I have measured up and dummied up a 2 tooth case with NOS 33 2 tooth gears , I will use a 33 housing with the A sector housing, this will allow me to use the 33/34 bearings on the worm.I will use the 33/34 worm bearing top retainer assembly and then machine up and adaptor to fit the cut down A 28 column.
Only down side is I will have to sacrifice a 33/34 steering shaft ,this sounds like a lot of work , but as synchro 99 says some parts are just not around here.
Lawrie

nkaminar · 03-23-2022, 05:24 AM

Maybe just grind out 5 of the 7 teeth.

Dkrahn · 03-23-2022, 08:26 AM

Thank you everyone for the advice. I will stay with the 7 tooth and look at rebuilding it with the help of Les Andrews. I do have a couple of his books and they are very helpful. Only question now is do I need to pull the steering column out, or just up past the steering box?.

burner31 · 03-23-2022, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dkrahn

Thank you everyone for the advice. I will stay with the 7 tooth and look at rebuilding it with the help of Les Andrews. I do have a couple of his books and they are very helpful. Only question now is do I need to pull the steering column out, or just up past the steering box?.

Make it easy on yourself, pull the whole thing out and do it on your bench

rotorwrench · 03-23-2022, 09:01 AM

I've run into a few of the 1928/29 cars have had 1930/31 2-tooth sectors already installed. This is likely due to a time when 7-tooth parts were hard to come by. My old 29 Sport Coupe had the long version of the 1930/31 2-tooth steering assembly. I found a good 28/29 throttle/spark quadrant. The short 2-tooth steering shafts with the late type worm gear are available now and the new type bearings that go with them are also available so as to convert the long Gemmer assembly to the short type. The top of the column tube has to be cut down to the correct length for the short 1929 assembly and drilled to fit a bushing and the 29 type quadrant. The spark and throttle rods either have to be replaced with the 29 type or shortened and drilled to match the 29 type. Last but not least, the steering wheel and horn/light switch rod assembly have to be replaced with the 29 type parts.

The early 1930 (January 1930) are odd ball short types and there are no reproduction spark/throttle control rod levers made to fit them. I think it's too short to convert to 1929 type but I'm not sure.

Now that most 7-tooth parts are available, it is easier to overhaul one for service. They work fine but have very little that can be adjusted to compensate for wear. If it has a 7-tooth, overhauling it is an easier route than converting over to a 2-tooth type complete assembly. Chances are that even an old 2-tooth type would need to be overhauled and a lot of them have the early worm & roller bearings that are no longer available. This requires conversion to the late type worm & bearings.

veggie · 03-23-2022, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

Maybe just grind out 5 of the 7 teeth.

HI Nkamina
I have the grinder for u.
Don't let the sound of your own wheels drive you crazy.

fried okra · 03-23-2022, 05:41 PM

Or the F100 Ford pickup steering gear from the 1950's from one of our suppliers is another option.

Love the one I have in my '31 Tudor.

03-22-2022, 07:07 PM	#1
Dkrahn Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Thorndale, Texas Posts: 88	7 tooth to 2 tooth So, I still have the 7 tooth steering in my '29 pickup. I am told it would be easier to steer if I went to the 2 tooth. Well that starts alot more questions. Do, I just need the gears, or what are the other parts I need? Do I need to pull the steering rod completely out, or just up 16 inches out of the way? I have the rod pulled out now, as I am replacing the steering wheel, so I am curious if this is a great time, or I can wait? Dean

03-22-2022, 07:33 PM	#2
Bob C Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: So Cal Posts: 8,754	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth You will need the whole 2 tooth steering column.

03-22-2022, 07:35 PM	#3
Synchro909 Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 7,496	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth IMO, the 7 tooth steering box is much maligned for no good reason. A properly rebuilt one is fine and will be for many miles. That said, I realise the situation is very different over there. A 2 tooth box is not easy to find here so 7 tooth ones are more commonly rebuilt. To answer the question, it is best to take the whole steering column out of the car and if you don't already have one, get a copy of Las Andrews' red book. __________________ I'm part of the only ever generation with an analogue childhood and a digital adulthood.

03-22-2022, 07:45 PM	#4
WTSHNN Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,413	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth You will have to replace everything. You can see the difference between the two here... https://www.brattons.com/ASSEMBLY-DI.../products/172/ __________________ No one wants advice - only corroboration. -John Steinbeck

03-22-2022, 11:22 PM	#5
w.michael Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: North Carolina Posts: 418	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth If you find a complete 2-tooth steering box and column, it is going to need to be completely rebuilt. So why not completely rebuild your existing 7-tooth box and column? Properly rebuilt, I don't think you will find one is any better than the other. I recently had the front end on my '28 rebuilt by a talented machinist, including new king pins, new spindle balls, and tie rod ends; and a new shortened pitman arm, and new drag link ends. Even without rebuilding the steering box, that car, with its 7-tooth steering box, is by far the easiest steering Model A I have driven. My advice is to rebuild your 7-tooth box, and all of the related steering parts including the pitman arm, drag link, tie rod, and spindle balls. W. Michael

03-23-2022, 12:52 AM	#6
Lawrie Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Qld, Australia Posts: 4,218	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) I have the 7 tooth in my A,its been there for years ,but has slowly got loose, As new RH parts for them are not good and hard to get, I have measured up and dummied up a 2 tooth case with NOS 33 2 tooth gears , I will use a 33 housing with the A sector housing, this will allow me to use the 33/34 bearings on the worm.I will use the 33/34 worm bearing top retainer assembly and then machine up and adaptor to fit the cut down A 28 column. Only down side is I will have to sacrifice a 33/34 steering shaft ,this sounds like a lot of work , but as synchro 99 says some parts are just not around here. Lawrie

03-23-2022, 05:24 AM	#7
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,897	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth Maybe just grind out 5 of the 7 teeth. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

03-23-2022, 08:26 AM	#8
Dkrahn Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Location: Thorndale, Texas Posts: 88	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth Thank you everyone for the advice. I will stay with the 7 tooth and look at rebuilding it with the help of Les Andrews. I do have a couple of his books and they are very helpful. Only question now is do I need to pull the steering column out, or just up past the steering box?.

03-23-2022, 09:01 AM	#10
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,436	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth I've run into a few of the 1928/29 cars have had 1930/31 2-tooth sectors already installed. This is likely due to a time when 7-tooth parts were hard to come by. My old 29 Sport Coupe had the long version of the 1930/31 2-tooth steering assembly. I found a good 28/29 throttle/spark quadrant. The short 2-tooth steering shafts with the late type worm gear are available now and the new type bearings that go with them are also available so as to convert the long Gemmer assembly to the short type. The top of the column tube has to be cut down to the correct length for the short 1929 assembly and drilled to fit a bushing and the 29 type quadrant. The spark and throttle rods either have to be replaced with the 29 type or shortened and drilled to match the 29 type. Last but not least, the steering wheel and horn/light switch rod assembly have to be replaced with the 29 type parts. The early 1930 (January 1930) are odd ball short types and there are no reproduction spark/throttle control rod levers made to fit them. I think it's too short to convert to 1929 type but I'm not sure. Now that most 7-tooth parts are available, it is easier to overhaul one for service. They work fine but have very little that can be adjusted to compensate for wear. If it has a 7-tooth, overhauling it is an easier route than converting over to a 2-tooth type complete assembly. Chances are that even an old 2-tooth type would need to be overhauled and a lot of them have the early worm & roller bearings that are no longer available. This requires conversion to the late type worm & bearings.

03-23-2022, 05:41 PM	#12
fried okra Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2018 Location: Daniel Island,SouthCarolina/Knoxville, Tennessee/Sanibel Island,Florida Posts: 292	Re: 7 tooth to 2 tooth Or the F100 Ford pickup steering gear from the 1950's from one of our suppliers is another option. Love the one I have in my '31 Tudor.