8BA block in a Model A frame

[ekentner1]

I am toying with the idea of putting an 8BA engine in my
'28 A Phaeton. I'm a bit concerned about using the stock A frame because of the lack of room around the A steering box. Can anyone offer some advice?

[columbiA]

Back in 64,I put a 59A engine in a 28 OCPU.I off-set the A steering box by cutting the steering mount section from a junk A frame & welding it to the outside of frame to space the steering out an inch or so to clear the LH of engine.After welding the section to frame,then the top flange & original mount can be cut away to move S-box over.While the V8 had more power,it didnt seem like a model A anymore,so I sold it.Ive stuck with A & B engined A,s ever since.Just a few mods on an A or B engine & an overdrive will let you cruise at 60 with no problem.

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by ekentner1

I am toying with the idea of putting an 8BA engine in my
'28 A Phaeton. I'm a bit concerned about using the stock A frame because of the lack of room around the A steering box. Can anyone offer some advice?

While there are those here that can give good advice why not go to http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/

"This forum is dedicated to spreading the gospel of traditional hot rods and customs to hoodlums worldwide."

And what can be a more traditional hot rod than a flat 8 in a A?

[ctlikon0712]

Why not try and just hop up the stock motor with a cam, intake/carb combo, and high compression head? All bolt on parts and nothing has to be permanently altered. I think a hopped up 4 Cyl. (banger) is more of an eye catcher than a flattie V8, in an A.
JMHO

[700rpm]

Originally Posted by ekentner1

I am toying with the idea of putting an 8BA engine in my
'28 A Phaeton. I'm a bit concerned about using the stock A frame because of the lack of room around the A steering box. Can anyone offer some advice?

Yes, here's my advice: Don't do it.

[Jim Brierley]

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This was common back in the day. You will also have clearance problems at the front of the engine, at the radiator. The earlier V8's were shorter so fit in easier. Headers might get around the steering???

[jkeesey]

its not the manifolds that are a problem with the steering box its the engine itself. mainly the driver side head. im putting a 1940 v8 in a 30 chassis right now. i cut and moved the the box over about 3/4 of an inch but it needs to be moved farther over and the top and bottom of the frame also need cut to clear the top and bottom of the original steering box.

[Pete]

Originally Posted by ekentner1

I am toying with the idea of putting an 8BA engine in my
'28 A Phaeton. I'm a bit concerned about using the stock A frame because of the lack of room around the A steering box. Can anyone offer some advice?

It's been done thousands of times.
The 8ba WILL fit either with the stock steering or an F100.
I use an 8ba block with the early (59A) type water pumps and crank pulley. This gives a bit more room up front especially if you use the early ignition. The early and late blocks are BASICALLY the same so you can mix and match many of the parts.
If you use "W" type headers it is a lot easier to get around the steering.
You will probably have to fabricate them yourself though.
I have done at least 8 of these conversions since 1950.
If you decide to modify the frame for the steering, consider boxing it at least back to the center cross member.

[john in illinois]

I would suggest the Vern Tardel book how to build a traditional ford hotrod. He addresses using and modifying the f1-100 box plus much more good stuff. Available On his web site or Amazon.
Good luck,John

[Jason in TX]

The original poster knows his stuff and was building traditional ford hotrods before there was a book. I think he's asking for advise about the steering box.

Use an F1 box. The worm enters the box below the sector and gives more room where the header is. You will have to move the flange closer to the box, or build a little box in the frame outward to suck the box in closer to the frame.

Reds makes an "Flathead with F1 box in a Model A Frame" header that is excellent.

[jkeesey]

I made the frame box like Jason mentioned and moved the steering box farther out. It worked well.

[George Miller]

I have done it a few times. In fact I'm putting a 39 V8 in my 1930 pickup. You can use a A steering gear. Most put a box on the out side of the frame.

[George Miller]

A couple more pictures

[Chris Haynes]

Originally Posted by ekentner1

I am toying with the idea of putting an 8BA engine in my
'28 A Phaeton. I'm a bit concerned about using the stock A frame because of the lack of room around the A steering box. Can anyone offer some advice?

Sell you Phaeton to someone who will appreciate it for what it is and go buy a street rod.

[hefty lefty]

Originally Posted by Chris Haynes

Sell you Phaeton to someone who will appreciate it for what it is and go buy a street rod.

Apparently you are one of those people that think anything modified is a Street Rod.

A Street Rod usually has a late model driveline and engine and is not like an old car. Usually built out of overpriced aftermarket parts entirely.

I think he specifically wants an A with a flathead V8 in it. That was common in the forties and fifties and not always what one would call a hot rod, some of them were built for practical purposes. I personally don't like the flathead V8 that much but he does and if that is what he wants that is what he should build.

[Model A Speedster]

I put a 59AB engine into my '30 coupe on unboxed A rails, If you position it JUST right there is no need to cut the firewall or move the radiator. I used the Vern Tardel "How to build a traditional Ford Hot Rod" book as a guideline. Lots of helpful info in it. I used a 49 or 50 F1 truck steering box and machined the flange down and bored a model a flange to fit the shaft and bolted it in the stock spot. The steering column shaft on an F1 box comes into the box from the bottom just the opposite of an A box so it gives you the room you need.

Youll run into other issues along the way also. Youll need to fab up a center crossmember for the trans, a model A trans is not compatible.... I used a '39 toploader. A lot of guys use an F1 center crossmember as it will accept this trans and with a little trimming will fit an A frame nicely.

and with doubling the horsepower I recommend juice brakes in the '40-'48 range.

PM me if i can be of ant assistance at all. More then willing to share any info I can. Good Luck!

[Tom Wesenberg]

It sounds like a street rod to me. Replacing the original 4 cylinder with a V8 can hardly be considered original or stock. I'm sure other mods will go along with the V8 change, if it is done.

I agree with Chris.

[hefty lefty]

Originally Posted by Tom Wesenberg

It sounds like a street rod to me. Replacing the original 4 cylinder with a V8 can hardly be considered original or stock. I'm sure other mods will go along with the V8 change, if it is done.

I agree with Chris.

It might be a Hot Rod but probably not a Street Rod, although a street rod could have a flathead...with lots of chrome crap on it and an otherwise modern driveline.

Then again it could just be a modified car. A lot of these did not have hot rod appearance modifications or any speed equipment and stock paint and interior.

Flathead V8s were cheap which is also the reason hot rodders liked them, but it could just have been some farmer's homebrew or a car for a city person who liked his A but wanted more zip.

I saw a barn find car like that a few years ago. It was a prewar Buick with a Hudson engine. None of the characteristics of a hot rod, besides an engine swap. The guy was a ham radio op and it had an old Leece Neville alternator and a homemade transmitter in the trunk.

[29ModelA]

It can be done with a standard fan and without cutting the firewall. IIRC there was one locally a week or two ago, it worked best with manifolds because they dump at the front and used an F1 steering box.

I think it was the same engine...

[Mike V. Florida]

Originally Posted by hefty lefty

Apparently you are one of those people that think anything modified is a Street Rod.

AThat was common in the forties and fifties and not always what one would call a hot rod, some of them were built for practical purposes. .

The original post was 7 months ago but I would always call it a hot rod.