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07-28-2013, 07:25 PM | #21 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
The price is already coming down and eventually 3D printers will be affordable for the general public. I feel certain that Model A wood will soon be reproduced in a high-density plastic that will not shrink, split, warp or rot yet will accept nails and screws just like wood.
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07-28-2013, 07:47 PM | #22 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
With as laser scanner and a 3D printer, there is nothing that couldn't be reproduced. If I was just getting into the job market rather than leaving it......
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07-28-2013, 07:55 PM | #23 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Brent:
You have seen my collection of drawings for the 225A. I have everyone from the archives, including all the wood ones. You could not possibly create a way to describe on the drawings, the compound curves, overlapping joints, non 90 degree edges and sweeping joints, etc. After buying the plans, they would have to invest heavily in some wood working equipment and still be left with more than a handful of questions about your 'drawings'. A great number of the wood drawings are made with the understanding that some fitting will need to be done after assembly to fit the sheetmetal. I have done three pickups, the 225A and two Tudors , all with relatively simple wood work, and NONE were the same or a perfect fit upon initial assembly. I was really ticked off with the 'easy' first pickup until I figured this out. There is NO WAY you want this headache. Each customers wood would require different fittings and phone instructions would be futile. Your customers would be proud of you for selling them inexpensive 'kits and drawings', then get 'touchy' when they could not figure out why it does not fit the first time on their own. I spent a month or two with a gentleman that had a 3-dimensional wood 'tracer' machine in an attempt to do this for some simple pickup wood, and we both agreed that it was not going to be a money maker to start with and the questions became increasingly evident as we pursued it. As a Model a restorer, the patterns will work great for you because you already know where to join, trim, extend, etc. each piece after assembly, but that is an almost impossible thought to put on paper for folks that dont have similar contractions and expansions to their existing wood. I'm not much of a fisherman, but that seems to be more worms than you could ever use! As always, just a thought.
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07-28-2013, 08:39 PM | #24 | ||||||||
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
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To answer your comment about a wood division, I actually already have a 'wood division' and an employee who came out of the furniture industry who works 40 hours a week fabricating wood for bodies. The problem I have with offering kits at a cheaper price is that our quality/fit is much better than what you purchase in a kit. This is not a 'dig' against the commercially available kits but in reality is more about a hamburger from a steak house vs. McDonalds 'Big Mac'. Both have their place but are really two different products with the same name. Quote:
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Thanks all for your thoughts. Always good to hear other's perspectives.. |
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07-28-2013, 08:51 PM | #25 |
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Location: Portland, Oregon
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Brent, I encountered this dilemma in my design business when I first started out in 1970. A very seasoned associate designer said, "Charge what you think is a fair price for your work. Put a copyright sign on it, then turn it loose. Don't think about it any more. You've made your money, and those who respect the copyright will come to you for permission. You can't control the crooks."
I ran my business like that for 37 years, and my hair isn't gray yet.
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07-28-2013, 11:45 PM | #26 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
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07-29-2013, 12:04 AM | #27 | |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Quote:
Like this one??? |
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07-29-2013, 12:12 AM | #28 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Brent,
That is some nice work.
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07-29-2013, 01:26 AM | #29 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Looks like he has them for the 130-B.
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07-29-2013, 01:45 AM | #30 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Brent, was all that nice wood left bare when the vehicle left the factory or was it body color. Beautiful workmanship. Bob
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07-29-2013, 03:34 AM | #31 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Brent, i wasn't really answering you when I wrote my post, I was making a general statment that I think that getting such information out To the restorers should be the job of the non-profit organisations. They may collect donations to pay for information from the Ford archives or perhaps from you if they find that appropriate.
[quote : I guess it should not matter that I have spent 1,000s of hours of labor & dollars making these patterns & prints yet you are suggesting I am suppose to just to give them away?? ] |
07-29-2013, 04:53 AM | #32 |
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Location: Tennessee
Posts: 445
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Don't even go there. If these are from archives give them part numbers and let them order them. Yes, there could be lots of part numbers. "Free" is a bit amusing remembering "no good deed goes unpunished". Folks wanting something for nothing are usually the ones wanting mega bucks at the end of the project. I Am NOT being specific to any posters in this thread....so don't start that I am, please!Brent forget it and lay low on that!
Also if at archives, any copyright issues?? Fomoco issues? |
07-29-2013, 07:05 PM | #33 |
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Location: Portland OR
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Wouldn't the plans be like a book; I can't copy it but I can resell it. Yes you should charge for them but once I have bought them and am done with them or found my skill level was not up to it, aren't they mine to sell? If you put a disclaimer saying the buyer, who spent 5-800 on them, can't resell them, don't think you would get many buyers.
Kinda like what happened with the Mel Miller plans for the Model T, lots of copied sets out there because there was no policing of them after he passed and before his daughter took over control and they were copywrited. |
07-29-2013, 09:27 PM | #34 |
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Posts: 914
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
What I had in mind was a watermark or perhaps making the lines up from the buyers name and address. Placing the ID data in in a critical place so if it was blacked out the drawing would be useless. It would at least slow them down. More thinking out loud than anything...
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07-29-2013, 10:07 PM | #35 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
brent
i am personally involved in two "similar" projects.. and am struggling with the same issues.. (how to protect the investment of time and money on our clubs part (and mine) ) from "sharing" and.. what cost to associate with the drawings.. on another note.. there is in fact a 3d printed material that is based on "wood" and would certainly be acceptable for structural non ornamental body wood.. and.. currently 3d printers are available for under 1000... I have taught students from age 12 - 18 how to model parts more complicated than most of the body wood in a model a..
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07-30-2013, 10:16 AM | #36 |
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Location: Conifer, Colorado
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
You have a model A block that you just pushed a rod through the side of it. You laser scan the block...then you go to a 3 D printer and produce the same block with the original stamps. That day is not so far off based on the technology we have today.
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08-06-2014, 09:30 PM | #37 |
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Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 16
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
We have a 3D printer at work and it's amazing. However, doing large parts, like the wood header above the windshield on a tudor, is not practical. More realistic, is the parts can be imaged with a laser and very accurate drawings and patterns can be generated in a jiff. I can understand the shops like B. Terry want to make a buck on the work they do, and rightfully so, but the national clubs could take this on and provide it back to the membership. Most don't have the tools and expertise to fab the wood parts even from plans, so i doubt it would have any impact to shops currently making the wood kits. I rather have the plans rather than another museum that most will never see.
Just my 2-cents. |
08-06-2014, 09:47 PM | #38 |
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Location: Fort Worth, Texas
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Here's my thought on it. Maybe you offer the drawings for the low wood use cars for cheap. Let's just say $50-75 just so someone has something to go off of if they want to make their own kit. Probably even cheaper for like roadster pick up wood, or some of to very few cars that used small small portions of wood. But once you get into the wood subframe cars, or medium amount of wood use cars, start charging more. The fordoors, deluxe phaetons, A400, deliveries, etc... people would probably be willing to pay a couple hundred dollars for the drawings. Copyright your drawings if you can. That way no one can publish them legally without your permission. As far as people selling the drawings after their done, it will happen. But probably not very often. Most people will keep them "just incase" they ever do another, or something happens to the car like a wreck or something.
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08-06-2014, 11:40 PM | #39 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
I wouldn't mess with the headache. Think about how many calls a day classic and ford wood must get from customers saying the kit doesn't fit? Do you want to mess with that? Some guy takes your plans, cut the stuff wrong, then it's your fault. No thanks.
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08-07-2014, 06:15 AM | #40 |
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Re: Making Wood Plans available
Run as fast as you can from mentioning earning even a nickel from the use of Ford Archive information!
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