Yanked the electronic ignition

[oldredford]

I have 2 Model A's both have/had the electronic FSI ignition systems installed. Both cars have lost the FSI module during touring. Why??? No one can give me an answer. In one of the Model A's I yanked the electronic module out and replaced with Modern points. I kept one Model A with electronic ignition. I want to see who breaks down first with ignition problems. Driving both cars, I can't tell any difference both drive out well. Electronic ignition cost I would say 100% more to buy and maintain. Is it worth it? I say NO. Both Model A's were on tours when the both modules decided to give me the middle finger. Replaced them both at quite a big expense. I could of bought 50 set of points for the cost.

[Y-Blockhead]

I believe the FSI uses Pertronix Ignitor Modules?
I left the key on in my '55 Ford Ranchwagon with a Pertronix Ignitor I and it burned up the module. Maybe that is what happened to yours?
Pertronix cured this problem with their Ignitor III, which I have in my '55 now but I don't think it is used in Model A applications, not much need for a REV limiter or multi-spark.
I run the stock ignition in my '30 Town Sedan with a Flame Thrower Coil (12v).

[P.S.]

I had similar experience with electronic ignition in a 70's muscle car. The electronic ignition would just go south without warning and for no apparent reason. I replaced it 2 more times before I got smart and put the original ignition back in. No problems after that.

The promise of better running and improved fuel economy with the electronic ignition did not materialize. It did 'feel' like it had a little more power, but it could have just been me wishful thinking.

[MAG]

My electronic ignition decided it did not want to play anymore. It did not send me prior notice. Doing a Great Race rally on the "other side of nowhere" in Nebraska, it stopped. Somewhere in the back of my mind I thought it a good idea to put the original ignition system under the seat. Ten minutes to change back.
Will never put another electronic ignition system in a Model A.

[BILL WILLIAMSON]

Monkey see--Monkey do, when TRENDS come about! SIMPLE is BETTER.
Bill Simpleton

[George Miller]

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Originally Posted by oldredford

I have 2 Model A's both have/had the electronic FSI ignition systems installed. Both cars have lost the FSI module during touring. Why??? No one can give me an answer. In one of the Model A's I yanked the electronic module out and replaced with Modern points. I kept one Model A with electronic ignition. I want to see who breaks down first with ignition problems. Driving both cars, I can't tell any difference both drive out well. Electronic ignition cost I would say 100% more to buy and maintain. Is it worth it? I say NO. Both Model A's were on tours when the both modules decided to give me the middle finger. Replaced them both at quite a big expense. I could of bought 50 set of points for the cost.

Good move the orginal is plenty good for a low speed low compression engine.

[marc hildebrant]

The electrical environment inside a Model A is very, very noisy. As a past electrical engineer, I can say that I'm not surprised that today's solid state components would not perform well unless extensive RF shielding was used to keep the modules working. In addition, the temperature extremes are a challenge for parts.

The reason I enjoy the car is largely because of it's "elegance". It's easy to make a complicated design work, it's really hard to make a simple design work.

Marc

[michael a]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

The electrical environment inside a Model A is very, very noisy. As a past electrical engineer, I can say that I'm not surprised that today's solid state components would not perform well unless extensive RF shielding was used to keep the modules working. In addition, the temperature extremes are a challenge for parts.

The reason I enjoy the car is largely because of it's "elegance". It's easy to make a complicated design work, it's really hard to make a simple design work.

Marc

What kind of coils and wires do the spark plugs were you using

Sent from my SM-J700T using Tapatalk

[denniskliesen]

I have a Pertronix in another of my vehicles. I was told rf wires AND plugs are a must. I'm not surprised when I read about the failures Model A owners have with these with standard plugs and wires.

[FRANK PKNY]

I have been running a FSI in my 31 for over 10,000 miles works great. I also have an alternator 12v system. The voltage from an alternator is cleaner (IE does not spike and drop like generator. I wonder if your running a stock generator? This could be the problem. The point that Mark makes is very valid.

[MAG]

Electronic Ignition systems on a Model A would be like having a pet rattlesnake......all is well ....then one day......

[glenn in camino]

I yanked mine a couple of years ago and replaced it with the stock system. I now have control with my spark lever and my Model A runs better than ever. I'm sure it's happier.

[1929]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

The electrical environment inside a Model A is very, very noisy. As a past electrical engineer, I can say that I'm not surprised that today's solid state components would not perform well unless extensive RF shielding was used to keep the modules working. In addition, the temperature extremes are a challenge for parts.

The reason I enjoy the car is largely because of it's "elegance". It's easy to make a complicated design work, it's really hard to make a simple design work.

Marc

The base of the FSI distributor gets as hot as the compression head, are you saying that can cause a problem?

[marc hildebrant]

1929,

No...I just made a comment that modern-day electrical components have a real challenge in a Model A due to the electrical environment.

Marc

[SteveB31]

Based on what I have seen , the biggest problem for Electronic ignitions on older cars that causes them to fail, is bad grounds. MANY Model A's have very bad grounds. For the stock Model A with plain light bulbs, point ignitions etc, this is not a problem. Those stock electrical parts will work fine with bad grounds. Alternators, electronic ignitions, and quartz halogen bulbs all require better a better ground. Most new cars (that have electronic ignition, halogen bulbs etc) have several ground straps to insure good grounds . I have several friends with Model A's with 30K miles or more with the same ignition you had, and MANY friends that have Petronics Electronic ignitions on Muscle cars and love them, and have had them on them for years- but those cars have multiple ground straps. Just my thoughts.....Every car made in the last 40 years has electronic ignition, and they last a long time.....

[1929]

Originally Posted by SteveB31

Based on what I have seen , the biggest problem for Electronic ignitions on older cars that causes them to fail, is bad grounds. MANY Model A's have very bad grounds. For the stock Model A with plain light bulbs, point ignitions etc, this is not a problem. Those stock electrical parts will work fine with bad grounds. Alternators, electronic ignitions, and quartz halogen bulbs all require better a better ground. Most new cars (that have electronic ignition, halogen bulbs etc) have several ground straps to insure good grounds . I have several friends with Model A's with 30K miles or more with the same ignition you had, and MANY friends that have Petronics Electronic ignitions on Muscle cars and love them, and have had them on them for years- but those cars have multiple ground straps. Just my thoughts.....Every car made in the last 40 years has electronic ignition, and they last a long time.....

Agree, my car has 3 grounds.

[denis4x4]

I handled the advertising and marketing for Per-Lux back in the seventies. The Ignitor (now called the Petronix) was designed for stationary engines running 24/7. One of the early automotive applications was for air cooled VW's. Used extensively by racers running the Baja off road events. Mickey Remund (Mickey Thompsons's engine builder) worked with Per-Lux to design the Model A and early Ford V-8 applications. Mickey sold the business to FS when he retired. I've used these modules for 40 years in boats, classic cars, race cars and Model A's with one failure. That failure was self inflicted due to a poor ground and it was on a Model A.

I use the Ignitor coil on all applications and Accel plug wires with Rahja plug clips.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

I have two grounds, and clean them ever couple of years. I have the old remen (sp) with 34,000 miles. I also have aback up module and coil. I've seen them fail practically out of the box. ???? Grounds are important, but who knows.

[AL in NY]

Had my FS Zipper electronic distributor for 6 years and 12,000 miles without a hiccup. The directions state to run a ground directly from the distributor to the battery to ensure a good ground. I'll bet most failures are a result of not following the manufacturers instructions or doing a poor job of grounding.

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by marc hildebrant

1929,

No...I just made a comment that modern-day electrical components have a real challenge in a Model A due to the electrical environment.

Marc

I deal with noise issues as part of the multi module systems in equipment today. J1939 can bus shielded primary wiring for the module and direct grounding to battery of things like the horn and generator MIGHT keep the noise down to a minimum..its also the start down the slippery slope of losing what makes the car a Model A.