The Ford Barn

oldspert · 11-18-2023, 11:57 PM

My horn is aftermarket, probably Chinese, and both wires are white that come out of the rear cover. I cut both wires before I realized they were both alike. Any suggestions as to how I can determine which is which to rewire it back.

46HARLEY · 11-19-2023, 07:50 AM

I would run jumper wires to horn and let the horn tell you. Not sure if polarity is a big deal. One way will be better than the other. Just rebuilt my old horn, that was what I did.

nkaminar · 11-19-2023, 07:51 AM

Normally the connections are made inside the rear cover. Also, one is grounded when the horn button is pressed and the other is hot all the time. Ether wire can be the ground or hot. To verify, take the back cover off and look for clips inside. To double verify, assure that neither wire is grounded to the horn frame with an ohmmeter.

If you cut the wires you may need to lengthen them so that they will reach the connections inside the horn. Use a crimp connector and the ratching type crimpers. The ends of the wires inside the horn usually have a bullet type end so that they will insert into the clips.

oldspert · 11-19-2023, 08:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

The ends of the wires inside the horn usually have a bullet type end so that they will insert into the clips.

I have had the back cover off but neither wire is connected to a bullet clip. Both are soldered to a terminal that is wired to the brushes and the field windings. Like I said this is not a Ford horn, a reproduction probably made in China.

Badpuppy · 11-19-2023, 09:10 AM

The idea is to get battery to one brush, ground to the other. Shouldn't matter which polarity. The yellow harness wire comes direct from battery via the cutout, the other wire goes to the horn button which connects to ground.

Joe K · 11-19-2023, 09:26 AM

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Looks like a Hutchins horn. Which MAY have been made pacific rim. Fairly good perhaps best said "uniform" quality.

To unsolder the landing of each wire and solder on another is not a big deal. As mentioned, if Hutchins, the "ground" of the horn is irrelevant, this usually being done in the wires.

As in one Plus and the other Negative. As said, if you can figure the wiring at the landing, you can be sure.

Try it on a 6v battery first. If it sounds like a dying cow, then you probably have the 12V version. They made both.

Joe K

Y-Blockhead · 11-19-2023, 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

Try it on a 6v battery first. If it sounds like a dying cow, then you probably have the 12V version. They made both.

Joe K

You gave me a chuckle... last weekend while on a short tour with the club, I heard more than my share of "Dying Cows" with a couple "Dying Ducks" in there also... especially at idle/low speed.

I think it was more than the incorrect voltage tho, haha. I think more than one needed some attention.

As stated above, I don't think the Horn's DC motor cares about polarity

Big hammer · 11-19-2023, 12:44 PM

Horn motors and starter motors don’t care about polarity !

nkaminar · 11-19-2023, 02:05 PM

They turn the same direction regardless of the polarity. That is because both the field and the armature windings reverse polarity. If you want to change direction of the motor you have to change the polarity of the field or armature windings, but not both.

Ruth · 11-19-2023, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Badpuppy

Shouldn't matter which polarity.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 46HARLEY

Not sure if polarity is a big deal.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

As stated above, I don't think the Horn's DC motor cares about polarity

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big hammer

Horn motors and starter motors don’t care about polarity !

Quote:

Originally Posted by nkaminar

They turn the same direction regardless of the polarity.

I think the consensus is the polarity doesn't matter.

Joe K · 11-19-2023, 04:08 PM

Quote:

I think it was more than the incorrect voltage tho, haha. I think more than one needed some attention.

On the Hutchins horns, the center of the sound diaphragm is where the "contact" lives that hits the "grooved wheel" that the motor turns. The contact is approached down the "throat" and adjusted by a deep socket to loosen the retaining nut, and then the contact point is adjusted with a common screwdriver "in" or "out" to affect the sound, the retaining nut tightened after to hold everything in place.

It usually takes a couple of tries to get the sound "right."

When made correct, the contact wheel can rust a bit which in turn affects how much resistance the contact point offers to turning - more rust - more cow.

A re-adjustment usually solves it - until the rust wears off and the horn "voice" gets wimpy.

Joe K

oldspert · 11-19-2023, 07:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe K

The contact is approached down the "throat" and adjusted by a deep socket to loosen the retaining nut, and then the contact point is adjusted with a common screwdriver "in" or "out" to affect the sound, the retaining nut tightened after to hold everything in place.

Joe K

Does the screen come out or do I remove the entire bell?

Joe K · 11-19-2023, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldspert

Does the screen come out or do I remove the entire bell?

The screen should pop out. You need the bell in place to hold the diaphragm against the rotating part.

Try slitting the paint a bit at the outer perimeter of the screen. It was probably painted as an assembly and the paint will make it harder to remove.

Joe K

rotorwrench · 11-21-2023, 11:02 AM

Motors made for high torque have a shunt wound field. Motors for light duty continuous operation are series wound. Shunt wound motors are not polarity sensitive but they do draw a lot of current. This is why they sound weak when the engine is idling. Current output of the generator is low at idle since it is trying to keep the ignition coil and what ever other electrical circuit is active at the time.

Series wound electric motors are polarity sensitive. Direction of rotation can easily be changed on them.

Y-Blockhead · 11-21-2023, 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rotorwrench

Motors made for high torque have a shunt wound field. Motors for light duty continuous operation are series wound. Shunt wound motors are not polarity sensitive but they do draw a lot of current. This is why they sound weak when the engine is idling. Current output of the generator is low at idle since it is trying to keep the ignition coil and what ever other electrical circuit is active at the time.

This is where a relay is useful. If you wire power directly from the battery and use the stock wiring to activate the relay. Wired this way you get full battery voltage at idle. This example is for negative ground, but I'm sure you get the idea how it works.

oldspert · 11-21-2023, 08:02 PM

[QUOTE=Y-Blockhead;2271330]

I agree a relay is best used to deliver full voltage for devices, but would 6 volts be sufficient to activate the coil? Polarity should not matter to activate the relay. Maybe a 6 volt relay is available.

Y-Blockhead · 11-21-2023, 08:11 PM

[QUOTE=oldspert;2271450]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

I agree a relay is best used to deliver full voltage for devices, but would 6 volts be sufficient to activate the coil? Polarity should not matter to activate the relay. Maybe a 6 volt relay is available.

Yes, 6 volt relays are still available, tho not as redily available as 12 volt.

oldspert · 11-21-2023, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Y-Blockhead

Yes, 6 volt relays are still available

Googled and found many sources for 6 volt relays.

11-19-2023, 07:50 AM	#2
46HARLEY Member Join Date: Jul 2021 Location: NY Posts: 54	Re: horn wiring I would run jumper wires to horn and let the horn tell you. Not sure if polarity is a big deal. One way will be better than the other. Just rebuilt my old horn, that was what I did.

11-19-2023, 07:51 AM	#3
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,903	Re: horn wiring Normally the connections are made inside the rear cover. Also, one is grounded when the horn button is pressed and the other is hot all the time. Ether wire can be the ground or hot. To verify, take the back cover off and look for clips inside. To double verify, assure that neither wire is grounded to the horn frame with an ohmmeter. If you cut the wires you may need to lengthen them so that they will reach the connections inside the horn. Use a crimp connector and the ratching type crimpers. The ends of the wires inside the horn usually have a bullet type end so that they will insert into the clips. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

11-19-2023, 09:10 AM	#5
Badpuppy Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2017 Location: Guthrie, OK Posts: 1,145	Re: horn wiring The idea is to get battery to one brush, ground to the other. Shouldn't matter which polarity. The yellow harness wire comes direct from battery via the cutout, the other wire goes to the horn button which connects to ground.

11-19-2023, 09:26 AM	#6
Joe K Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Cow Hampshire Posts: 4,188	Re: horn wiring Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements) Looks like a Hutchins horn. Which MAY have been made pacific rim. Fairly good perhaps best said "uniform" quality. To unsolder the landing of each wire and solder on another is not a big deal. As mentioned, if Hutchins, the "ground" of the horn is irrelevant, this usually being done in the wires. As in one Plus and the other Negative. As said, if you can figure the wiring at the landing, you can be sure. Try it on a 6v battery first. If it sounds like a dying cow, then you probably have the 12V version. They made both. Joe K __________________ Shudda kept the horse.

11-19-2023, 12:44 PM	#8
Big hammer Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Location: Land of Lincoln Posts: 3,131	Re: horn wiring Horn motors and starter motors don’t care about polarity ! __________________ Don't force it with a little hammer tap, tap, tap get a bigger hammer tap done

11-19-2023, 02:05 PM	#9
nkaminar Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Western North Carolina Posts: 3,903	Re: horn wiring They turn the same direction regardless of the polarity. That is because both the field and the armature windings reverse polarity. If you want to change direction of the motor you have to change the polarity of the field or armature windings, but not both. __________________ A is for apple, green as the sky. Step on the gas, for tomorrow I die. Forget the brakes, they really don't work. The clutch always sticks, and starts with a jerk. My car grows red hair, and flies through the air. Driving's a blast, a blast from the past.

11-21-2023, 11:02 AM	#14
rotorwrench Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 16,440	Re: horn wiring Motors made for high torque have a shunt wound field. Motors for light duty continuous operation are series wound. Shunt wound motors are not polarity sensitive but they do draw a lot of current. This is why they sound weak when the engine is idling. Current output of the generator is low at idle since it is trying to keep the ignition coil and what ever other electrical circuit is active at the time. Series wound electric motors are polarity sensitive. Direction of rotation can easily be changed on them.

11-21-2023, 08:02 PM	#16
oldspert Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2012 Location: Texas Posts: 227	Re: horn wiring [QUOTE=Y-Blockhead;2271330] I agree a relay is best used to deliver full voltage for devices, but would 6 volts be sufficient to activate the coil? Polarity should not matter to activate the relay. Maybe a 6 volt relay is available.