The Ford Barn

Ron W · 10-20-2011, 08:20 PM

For those that may be interested, I recently removed and reworked my BF Super head. It had issues with breathing that caused incomplete combustion and generally poor running even though the power was greatly increased. This is not a comment on BF heads in general, only the one he sent me. After creating a "Lucite" fixture to place the valves in the proper place relative to the head while off the engine, I could see that the back of the valves were shrouded (restricting flow) by the shape of the combustion chamber. It also pinched the flow a little in places that I didn't think it was necessary. I did some machine work on the head to un shroud the valves and open the pinched areas. What I did removed only about 17cc but it helped! Even though I slightly reduced the compression ratio, it actually produces more power now because of improved combustion and better chamber filling. With that said, it is not "night and day", but it is noticeable as measured by the seat of my pants. YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY!

Phred · 10-20-2011, 10:35 PM

Do you have larger than stock intake or exhust valves? Was most of the "unshrouding" done at the larger than stock valves?

thanks in advance for the additional input.

Huckster Dave · 10-20-2011, 10:47 PM

I am not sure if Mr. Brumfield was tossed from this forum or just quit coming before he was removed. In his defence I suggest that all interested read the thread over on Ahooga message board.

Ron W · 10-21-2011, 06:43 AM

Stock valves. Ron W

Purdy Swoft · 10-21-2011, 08:52 AM

I tried to get one of the super BF heads but brumfield was sort of reluctant to sell them. There seemed to be too many hoops to have to jump through and a longer waiting period. Anybody that read the forums back then will remember the specs. on valve dimensions and lift height that he required before he would agree to sell one of the super heads. I told him that I was using standard original style valves and gave cam lift specs., all to no avail. I was finally able to obtain a regular 5.9 head after waiting over eight months, never again!!! I can certainly understand why you would try fixing the head yourself rather than sending it back only to have to wait longer or maybe never get the head back. This really speaks volumns about the volumnetric efficiency of the bf heads that he constantly preached. You are lucky to be a machinist with the equipment and knowledge to correct the problem. Its good to see you posting here !

hardtimes · 10-21-2011, 03:04 PM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron W

For those that may be interested, I recently removed and reworked my BF Super head. It had issues with breathing that caused incomplete combustion and generally poor running even though the power was greatly increased. This is not a comment on BF heads in general, only the one he sent me. After creating a "Lucite" fixture to place the valves in the proper place relative to the head while off the engine, I could see that the back of the valves were shrouded (restricting flow) by the shape of the combustion chamber. It also pinched the flow a little in places that I didn't think it was necessary. I did some machine work on the head to un shroud the valves and open the pinched areas. What I did removed only about 17cc but it helped! Even though I slightly reduced the compression ratio, it actually produces more power now because of improved combustion and better chamber filling. With that said, it is not "night and day", but it is noticeable as measured by the seat of my pants. YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY!

Ron,
Wow, your work sounds to be very interesting / successful! Do you have any pics to share of your work..for us that need pic help. Are you (auto related)engineer/machinist..or tinkerer only

. Curious how you acquired super head without 'large' valves prerequisite?

Blessyouboys · 10-21-2011, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckster Dave

I am not sure if Mr. Brumfield was tossed from this forum or just quit coming before he was removed. In his defence I suggest that all interested read the thread over on Ahooga message board.

He wasn't banned, tossed or removed from this forum.

He chooses not to post here.

Ron W · 10-21-2011, 08:01 PM

Hard times
I am 70 years old and have had my own industrial machine shop business since 1963. I still operate the shop part time but have plenty of time to play with my toys. I haven't posted pics on the board since it was changed but I will get up to speed after a while. Meanwhile, I will send pics to anyone that wants them by e-mail.
To Purdy,
Yes, there was a lot of confusion surounding the "Super Head" but I did get one after 6+ months. I don't know if mine was different from others or not. I only requested 7-1 compression and modern spark plugs. I have heard that some other people were disappointed with the head also. Mine had good power but only at low to moderate speed. I modified mine as decribed above with good results. The casting had plenty of wall thickness to open the valve area even more than what I did. I stayed within the profile of the model "B" gasket. I had bad results with the gasket recomended by BF. I worried about removing too much material and loosing compression ratio this time but, next time i would remove more by undercuttind in the valve area. Ron W

Mike V. Florida · 10-22-2011, 01:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

I tried to get one of the super BF heads but brumfield was sort of reluctant to sell them. There seemed to be too many hoops to have to jump through and a longer waiting period. Anybody that read the forums back then will remember the specs. on valve dimensions and lift height that he required before he would agree to sell one of the super heads. !

Could be that as a side business and knowing that alot of those that purchase accessories know little about how they work, he wanted to sure that the purchaser was getting exactly what he needed rather that what the purchaser thought he needed. I wish I could go back and show the posts from BF head users that complained about his head and then went back and followed his instructions to the letter and everything work fine.

I also beleive that Larry was a victim of his own success. Too much demand for his ability to produce a quality product and not enough demand to quit his full time job. If I rememeber right there was a poll a while back and his head was used more than all the other heads combined. I think that says something about the product. I also don't see many of his heads come up for sale.

I will say that he seems to have gotten a little angryer over the years and is not the same guy that I dealt with years ago. That guy back then took a chance on me and for that I will aways be thankful. He has called me a leftist liberal in receint times, and my friends got a laugh at that since they feel I'm the other way around, so I wonder if I would get the same treatment now.

Take away the anger and the politics and you will find a man with an huge amount of Model A knowledge and I always read each and every post he writes learning more and more about how the model A engine works.

I think it was great that in this case the owner worked on the head himself made changes that improved the performance of his car. I can think of nothing that has been made that has not been improved upon later on.

hardtimes · 10-22-2011, 01:29 AM

Mike,
Well said...except for the political 'leftist liberal' stuff (grin!).
I miss LB and his style here. He added a little tabasco sauce with his knowledge contributions! Civil differing points of view are provocative, however he never provoked me. I credit him with more good than harm. I never owned one of his heads ..couldn't afford one when he was making them..bummer! Anyone has one of his super heads that wants to make his money back..I'm in the market,eh.
When I'm able to work on my A, I use what I learned from him...here. My best to you Larry...where ever you are.

hardtimes · 10-22-2011, 01:51 AM

Ron,
Thanks for your bio info! I felt that you must have some special talents to successfully tackle and improve a new head!
Welcome to the barn and we look forward to any/all info that you can share relative to improving/working on our Model A/B engines!
I do have a question which relates to your statement regarding having trouble with head gasket sealing,etc...
I've often wondered if a machinist can machine a circle 'groove' around the head/combustion chamber area to install...say a soft wire...to positively seal a 'high' compression head' ? Any thoughts on this?

Ron W · 10-22-2011, 06:58 AM

The copper "O" ring style is popular with OHV race engines. In the case of the Model A the combustion chamber is not round (Check shape of gasket) so the slot would have to be cut by CNC. Also the front and rear head studs on the piston side are very close to the hole leaving very little room for a slot. Maybe that's incentive to go OHV? Ron W

hardtimes · 10-22-2011, 04:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Timothy Kelly

Hardtimes -

If you miss Larry's comments, simply go to www.ahooga.com and you will find him posting frequently.

Timothy

Tim, thanks! Now to figure out something new..again(pass words,etc). Gad ain't these new fangled machines FUN

hardtimes · 10-22-2011, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron W

The copper "O" ring style is popular with OHV race engines. In the case of the Model A the combustion chamber is not round (Check shape of gasket) so the slot would have to be cut by CNC. Also the front and rear head studs on the piston side are very close to the hole leaving very little room for a slot. Maybe that's incentive to go OHV? Ron W

Thanks! Now to locate an original OHV setup, as I have a strong built russian B to accept such...anyone have a tip on one that's for sale

?
How about a 'reward' / finders fee,eh !
PS.. Ron great pics and a good teaching tool..the way you present them!!

Huckster Dave · 10-25-2011, 09:47 PM

I find Larry kinda refreshing. He posts on Ahooga and is quite often in the chat room. Amazing amount of knowledge in that head of his and the politics I just overlook. Fortunately I tend to identify with conservative view point. I am very glad to see some agree with me that his wisdom far out weighs his politics. FWIW the head in question here is not new, 7 1/2 years old.

Ron W · 10-26-2011, 09:35 PM

Dave, I don't remember you asking me how old the head is, not that it matters. You may recall my original post, "This is not a comment on BF heads in general, only the one he sent me". I am only reporting my experience that improves the performance of MY engine. Do you have a "Super Head"? If yours is working well, please disregard my comments. They are intended only for those that may be dissatisfied. Ron W

10-20-2011, 08:20 PM	#1
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Reworked BF Super head For those that may be interested, I recently removed and reworked my BF Super head. It had issues with breathing that caused incomplete combustion and generally poor running even though the power was greatly increased. This is not a comment on BF heads in general, only the one he sent me. After creating a "Lucite" fixture to place the valves in the proper place relative to the head while off the engine, I could see that the back of the valves were shrouded (restricting flow) by the shape of the combustion chamber. It also pinched the flow a little in places that I didn't think it was necessary. I did some machine work on the head to un shroud the valves and open the pinched areas. What I did removed only about 17cc but it helped! Even though I slightly reduced the compression ratio, it actually produces more power now because of improved combustion and better chamber filling. With that said, it is not "night and day", but it is noticeable as measured by the seat of my pants. YOUR RESULTS MAY VARY!

10-20-2011, 10:35 PM	#2
Phred Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: IL Posts: 303	Re: Reworked BF Super head Do you have larger than stock intake or exhust valves? Was most of the "unshrouding" done at the larger than stock valves? thanks in advance for the additional input.

10-20-2011, 10:47 PM	#3
Huckster Dave Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ronan, Montana Posts: 158	Re: Reworked BF Super head I am not sure if Mr. Brumfield was tossed from this forum or just quit coming before he was removed. In his defence I suggest that all interested read the thread over on Ahooga message board.

10-21-2011, 06:43 AM	#4
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: Reworked BF Super head Stock valves. Ron W

10-21-2011, 08:52 AM	#5
Purdy Swoft Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Alabama Posts: 8,099	Re: Reworked BF Super head I tried to get one of the super BF heads but brumfield was sort of reluctant to sell them. There seemed to be too many hoops to have to jump through and a longer waiting period. Anybody that read the forums back then will remember the specs. on valve dimensions and lift height that he required before he would agree to sell one of the super heads. I told him that I was using standard original style valves and gave cam lift specs., all to no avail. I was finally able to obtain a regular 5.9 head after waiting over eight months, never again!!! I can certainly understand why you would try fixing the head yourself rather than sending it back only to have to wait longer or maybe never get the head back. This really speaks volumns about the volumnetric efficiency of the bf heads that he constantly preached. You are lucky to be a machinist with the equipment and knowledge to correct the problem. Its good to see you posting here ! Last edited by Purdy Swoft; 10-21-2011 at 04:36 PM.

10-21-2011, 08:01 PM	#8
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: Reworked BF Super head Hard times I am 70 years old and have had my own industrial machine shop business since 1963. I still operate the shop part time but have plenty of time to play with my toys. I haven't posted pics on the board since it was changed but I will get up to speed after a while. Meanwhile, I will send pics to anyone that wants them by e-mail. To Purdy, Yes, there was a lot of confusion surounding the "Super Head" but I did get one after 6+ months. I don't know if mine was different from others or not. I only requested 7-1 compression and modern spark plugs. I have heard that some other people were disappointed with the head also. Mine had good power but only at low to moderate speed. I modified mine as decribed above with good results. The casting had plenty of wall thickness to open the valve area even more than what I did. I stayed within the profile of the model "B" gasket. I had bad results with the gasket recomended by BF. I worried about removing too much material and loosing compression ratio this time but, next time i would remove more by undercuttind in the valve area. Ron W

10-22-2011, 01:29 AM	#10
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Reworked BF Super head Mike, Well said...except for the political 'leftist liberal' stuff (grin!). I miss LB and his style here. He added a little tabasco sauce with his knowledge contributions! Civil differing points of view are provocative, however he never provoked me. I credit him with more good than harm. I never owned one of his heads ..couldn't afford one when he was making them..bummer! Anyone has one of his super heads that wants to make his money back..I'm in the market,eh. When I'm able to work on my A, I use what I learned from him...here. My best to you Larry...where ever you are.

10-22-2011, 01:51 AM	#11
hardtimes Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: South California Posts: 6,188	Re: Reworked BF Super head Ron, Thanks for your bio info! I felt that you must have some special talents to successfully tackle and improve a new head! Welcome to the barn and we look forward to any/all info that you can share relative to improving/working on our Model A/B engines! I do have a question which relates to your statement regarding having trouble with head gasket sealing,etc... I've often wondered if a machinist can machine a circle 'groove' around the head/combustion chamber area to install...say a soft wire...to positively seal a 'high' compression head' ? Any thoughts on this?

10-22-2011, 06:58 AM	#12
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: Reworked BF Super head The copper "O" ring style is popular with OHV race engines. In the case of the Model A the combustion chamber is not round (Check shape of gasket) so the slot would have to be cut by CNC. Also the front and rear head studs on the piston side are very close to the hole leaving very little room for a slot. Maybe that's incentive to go OHV? Ron W

10-25-2011, 09:47 PM	#15
Huckster Dave Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Ronan, Montana Posts: 158	Re: Reworked BF Super head I find Larry kinda refreshing. He posts on Ahooga and is quite often in the chat room. Amazing amount of knowledge in that head of his and the politics I just overlook. Fortunately I tend to identify with conservative view point. I am very glad to see some agree with me that his wisdom far out weighs his politics. FWIW the head in question here is not new, 7 1/2 years old.

10-26-2011, 09:35 PM	#16
Ron W Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Central Me. Posts: 260	Re: Reworked BF Super head Dave, I don't remember you asking me how old the head is, not that it matters. You may recall my original post, "This is not a comment on BF heads in general, only the one he sent me". I am only reporting my experience that improves the performance of MY engine. Do you have a "Super Head"? If yours is working well, please disregard my comments. They are intended only for those that may be dissatisfied. Ron W