Flathead V-8 tops 200 MPH Rear engine modified 27 Ford roadster

[Ronnieroadster]

As some of you know I have been running Ford Flathead blocks for some time in our Land Speed race car. Its been eight years of trial and error with our race car learning how to get reliability and power out of our beloved supercharged on racing gasoline Flathead Ford blocks.
On Friday July 13th 2018 running my car at the Loring Timing Associations land speed event in Limestone Maine my car was timed at 200.921 Miles Per Hour.
Some details about the run.
It was made from a standing start no push just the power of the engine powering the car to the top end finish line which is 1.5 miles. On the run the mile speed was 185.773
Now some details about the engine.
Its an 8BA block bored 3 -5/16 with a 4 1/4 stroke crankshaft. The block is not modified the original intake ports are retained and the stock exhaust passages are used exactly how the block was originally designed. Some have said those three exhaust ports per side are a big hindrance to flow and performance I have found otherwise. The blower is small 2.3 in size and theres a four barrel carb feeding this little monster.
As far as we know no other Ford roadster bodied race car powered by a Ford Flathead valve in block engine has run 200 MPH prior to this run.
Ronnieroadster


The attachment is the in car camera of the run hope you enjoy the ride.





https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuRbG60gTpM

[Talkwrench]

Congrats .. well done , big thumbs up !! Cant wait to get home and look at the vid properly .

[V8COOPMAN]

Jeez, Ron.....My having only half a clue as to the obstacles you've overcome, you have knocked flathead performance far beyond out of the ball park. Just DAMN, Ronnie! DD

[flatjack9]

Way to go Ronnie. Quite an accomplishment.

[flatford8]

I should have known this was taking place. I certainly would have gone. Congratulations!!!......I’m going to search LTA......Mark

[34fordy]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

YEOOOW! Fantastic! How about a couple pictures of the beast?

[flatford8]

http://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/3bd111...560c9d3073.pdf

[KiWinUS]

So awesome Ronnie
A pure credit to your persistence, attention to detail & knowledge
Great stuff
Cheers
Tony

[Bob T]

Congratulations. I know its been a long road to get to this point.

[RalphM]

Wow! Congratulations! 200 mph in a flathead powered car. I’ll be sure to tell everyone who sees one of my flatheads what they are truly capable of, with the right mechanic!

[vilanar]

Wow! Awesome! Congrats Ronnie ! I loved to watch that tach to climb beyond 6k !
Waiting for your next visit to Bonneville.

[Brian]

Fantastic Ronnie...you are indeed one badly afflicted flatheadolic. Great effort!

[jrvariel48]

Excellent accomplishment Ronnie!!

[JWL]

I would call that pretty cool! The starter sounds like an original Ford part, too.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Congratulations Ronnie, that was an awesome run!!

[V8 Bob]

Congratulations Ron!

[Tim Ayers]

Congrats, Ron! Well done!

[deuce5wndw]

Congratulations and thanks for the ride!

[Ford46]

Ron, great runs in Maine, congratulations! Hope to see you at the Ty-Rods in September. LouB.

[nickthebandit]

Congratulations Ronnie, you worked long and hard for this accomplishment. nick.

[Mart]

Well done, Ronnie, that is a stupendous achievement.

For the technically minded, would you care to share the trans type, rear end ratio and tyre size?

I'd find that very interesting.

Mart.

[Ol' Ron]

ATTA BOY Ron. Yes we learn by our mistakes. 25 years ago I moved the ports on a flathead block only to see less than a 4% increase in flow. If you consider the firing order of the engine the engine actually has 4 exhaust ports, the center one is just used twice. Unfortunately the intake port in it's present configuration cannot feed the engine with out help from a blower.
Keep up the good work.
Ron

[tubman]

Excellent run, Ronnie! I too, was impressed with the engine turning damn near 7K. If you don't mind, what is required to do this? I have an 8BA wth a MAX-1 and the Isky 185G springs and I have run it to 5500. It seemed to be OK, but at this time, I don't want to turn it any higher. Would turning it tighter break something, or am I just a sissy?

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by tubman

Excellent run, Ronnie! I too, was impressed with the engine turning damn near 7K. If you don't mind, what is required to do this? I have an 8BA wth a MAX-1 and the Isky 185G springs and I have run it to 5500. It seemed to be OK, but at this time, I don't want to turn it any higher. Would turning it tighter break something, or am I just a sissy?

What I can tell some things about how I can get the RPM to this point and higher with reliability. First I use hand made tool steel lifters which are rollers the cam is a special one off design which took a number of profiles before we hit on one that works well. The cam timing is extremely important so getting the cam center line wheres it works best has also been a lot of experimentation. Changing the bolt pattern in the cam gear takes me a lot of time to get things accurate.
Something I failed to add in my post all of the engine machine work is done by me and my son we have the equipment needed to do every step required no one else has had there hands in the engine we also do the assembly work.
To answer your question about how high you can rev your combination the weak link in the combination is the crankshaft the factory cranks have been known to fail at around 6500 RPM for some who have used them for racing. That being said I would pick 6000 as the red line for your combination.
Thanks to everyone for the congratulations. Our next outing will be at Bonneville our plan is to be in the long coarse line Saturday morning since our car is qualified from our record from 2016 for the long coarse. When it comes time to make the pass i will run her to mile three and see what happens.
Ronnieroadster

[Flathead]

Congratulations Ronnie. Going fast with the valves still in the block really takes talent.

[corvette8n]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Congrats, your hard work has paid off.

[tubman]

Ronnie, Thanks for the information. It seems like I am kind of a sissy, but not too big a one.

[1930 turbo]

Congratulations,I really like that you and your son did all the engine work. How many lbs. of boost do you run?

[JWL]

The weak link when our Flatheads are pushed to higher power and RPM is the stock connecting rod. They will take 7000 RPM for 3 runs at the drag strip. After that there is good reason to have the diaper firmly attached. The pin end will separate on the exhaust stroke with even the lightest parts attached.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by 1930 turbo

Congratulations,I really like that you and your son did all the engine work. How many lbs. of boost do you run?

Thanks 1930 Turbo

Were seeing 12 pounds of boost using a Whipple 2.3 size blower they were made for boat applications.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by JWL

The weak link when our Flatheads are pushed to higher power and RPM is the stock connecting rod. They will take 7000 RPM for 3 runs at the drag strip. After that there is good reason to have the diaper firmly attached. The pin end will separate on the exhaust stroke with even the lightest parts attached.

At the level we are running obviously we would never consider using the stock connecting rods. We use rods from Cunningham,Carrillo or Ferguson all will withstand over 8 grand I know I have pushed my Flatheads to those levels learning a few things never had A rod,engine or any bearing issues.
Ronnieroadster

[Habusailor]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

At the level we are running obviously we would never consider using the stock connecting rods. We use rods from Cunningham,Carrillo or Ferguson all will withstand over 8 grand I know I have pushed my Flatheads to those levels learning a few things never had A rod,engine or any bearing issues.

Ronnieroadster

Maybe a dumb question but you must go through some blocks in your testing phase, where do you keep finding good blocks?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by Habusailor

Maybe a dumb question but you must go through some blocks in your testing phase, where do you keep finding good blocks?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The first Flathead block I worked on was my daily driver 1950 Ford panel truck that was in 1971 that first engine I still have. From 1971 up to today any opportunity I have to get a Flathead for a reasonable price I do so. Finding a worthy block so far has not been a problem.
Once I have the block complexity apart A hot tanking takes place and next a mag check for cracks and final step A complete submersion in citric acid and water bath. Once i find a block thats going to be used for my extreme duty race application I then use a sonic tester to determine cylinder wall thickness.
This engine I ran is my second complete all out Flathead valve in block engine the first engine which I built in 2015 presently holds the gas supercharged record at Bonneville at 192.448 MPH set in 2016 it also holds the fastest Flathead pass at the ECTA LSR event in Ohio one mile speed 179.9 MPH the engine has a lot of miles on her under full throttle now this is the backup engine to this latest version. With lots of work reliability is possible however it takes a lot of time to do these engines there's no easy short cut and if the time alone is counted the cost is high. Thats why we do all of this ourselfs trying to keep the cost within reason.
Rnnieroadster

[Blownflatheaddeuce]

Just awesome Ronnie, would love to visit you oer there after meeting at the GNRS. Well done to you all !

[whygoby]

Congrats Ron!!…….. See you soon at Bonneville!!

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Thanks 1930 Turbo

Were seeing 12 pounds of boost using a Whipple 2.3 size blower they were made for boat applications.

Ron, I asked about the supercharger on the Hamb...is this whipple one originally setup for a carb or did you have to convert it?? I was curious because I'm building a flathead supercharger setup on the cheap (we PM'd once or twice about it) that is using the eaton supercharger that I'm "converting" to carb.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by revkev6

Ron, I asked about the supercharger on the Hamb...is this whipple one originally setup for a carb or did you have to convert it?? I was curious because I'm building a flathead supercharger setup on the cheap (we PM'd once or twice about it) that is using the eaton supercharger that I'm "converting" to carb.

The Whipple blower I use is made with a carb mount. Whipple made the blower for a marine application but they are no longer being made however once in a while I see them on Ebay being sold from a boat. They are usually expensive so not really A cheap blower when found.
I know of at least one racer who has converted the same size Whipple that was made for A throttle body only {this style is plentiful and easier to find} he made an intake inlet that bolts to the location of the throttle body this opening is located on the rear of the blower.
Ronnieroadster

[scooder]

Good work Ronnie,
How are you locating the roller lifters to keep them from turning in the lifter bores? Do you "key" them like the isky 404A or similar, or with straps like most of the OHV stuff?
Congrats Martin.

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

The Whipple blower I use is made with a carb mount. Whipple made the blower for a marine application but they are no longer being made however once in a while I see them on Ebay being sold from a boat. They are usually expensive so not really A cheap blower when found.
I know of at least one racer who has converted the same size Whipple that was made for A throttle body only {this style is plentiful and easier to find} he made an intake inlet that bolts to the location of the throttle body this opening is located on the rear of the blower.
Ronnieroadster

that's what I figured. Whipples are NEVER cheap. I was more interested in any conversion you had to do for wet running. obviously none considering it's designed for it. the eaton units are coated inside with an unsealed needle bearing on the back side. to convert it I have stripped the teflon coating and will be using a sealed needle bearing.



awesome run and 12 psi is some kinda pressure for a flathead. I'd love to hear what you think would transfer well to a street blown flathead in a roadster.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by scooder

Good work Ronnie,
How are you locating the roller lifters to keep them from turning in the lifter bores? Do you "key" them like the isky 404A or similar, or with straps like most of the OHV stuff?
Congrats Martin.

Hi Martin
I use the tried and true Isky design copper coated steel wire guides in the lifter bores I actually use an original Isky fixture to do the job.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by revkev6

that's what I figured. Whipples are NEVER cheap. I was more interested in any conversion you had to do for wet running. obviously none considering it's designed for it. the eaton units are coated inside with an unsealed needle bearing on the back side. to convert it I have stripped the teflon coating and will be using a sealed needle bearing.



awesome run and 12 psi is some kinda pressure for a flathead. I'd love to hear what you think would transfer well to a street blown flathead in a roadster.

Revkev
For the Flathead street blower engines I run and build for others boost levels around 8 pounds works well and helps set you back a bit in the drivers seat. Typical crankshaft horsepower numbers are close to 300 HP using a Merc crankshaft and 3-5/16 bore.

[scooder]

Thanks for the reply Ronnie,
Martin.

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

Revkev
For the Flathead street blower engines I run and build for others boost levels around 8 pounds works well and helps set you back a bit in the drivers seat. Typical crankshaft horsepower numbers are close to 300 HP using a Merc crankshaft and 3-5/16 bore.

running 8psi, I'm assuming you have something to support the mains?? straps or a steel center main? the test mule I'm going to start with is just a good running 239 that has cracked exhaust ports rebuilt mostly stock 25 years ago. I'm going to put some sealer in the radiator and run it till it pops. HARD.
plan after that is to take the spare block I have kicking around and build that into a bigger motor that will with any luck last and build hp.

[Ronnieroadster]

Originally Posted by revkev6

running 8psi, I'm assuming you have something to support the mains?? straps or a steel center main? the test mule I'm going to start with is just a good running 239 that has cracked exhaust ports rebuilt mostly stock 25 years ago. I'm going to put some sealer in the radiator and run it till it pops. HARD.
plan after that is to take the spare block I have kicking around and build that into a bigger motor that will with any luck last and build hp.

The center main support of my design is extremely simple. First I place a steel support over the center main bearing cap held in place with ARP studs and related hardware this support also holds the bearing cap in position it also extends to and touches the inside surface of the oil pan.
Next I build build a simple triangle support that bolts to three oil pan rail bolt holes of the block this support sits on the oil pan surface. The outside material is 1/8 plate steel just large enough to cover the side of the pan up to where the steel support is located inside the pan.
Once I have this triangle support made I then cross drill threw this support into the side of the oil pan and continue drilling into the side of the steel support holding the center main in place.
Final step I tap into the steel support A 7/16 coarse thread I now have a cross bolted center main. The proof of its strength was realized in 2016 when we experienced a serious engine failure at Speedweek. Due to an oiling issue rod number 4 and 8 broke after the bearings welded themselves to the crankshaft journal. The internal carnage was extreme caused by the still connected sections of the rods spinning and breaking everything in their way including the camshaft. When I examined the block after it was all apart
the center main area of the block held together. Theres no cracks in the center web of this now dead block and the stock cast center main bearing cap also is perfect. The crankshaft had fifteen thousands run out in the center.
Just a simple amount of additional support is needed and our damaged block is proof on how well it worked.
Ronnieroadster

[revkev6]

Originally Posted by Ronnieroadster

The center main support of my design is extremely simple. First I place a steel support over the center main bearing cap held in place with ARP studs and related hardware this support also holds the bearing cap in position it also extends to and touches the inside surface of the oil pan.
Next I build build a simple triangle support that bolts to three oil pan rail bolt holes of the block this support sits on the oil pan surface. The outside material is 1/8 plate steel just large enough to cover the side of the pan up to where the steel support is located inside the pan.
Once I have this triangle support made I then cross drill threw this support into the side of the oil pan and continue drilling into the side of the steel support holding the center main in place.
Final step I tap into the steel support A 7/16 coarse thread I now have a cross bolted center main. The proof of its strength was realized in 2016 when we experienced a serious engine failure at Speedweek. Due to an oiling issue rod number 4 and 8 broke after the bearings welded themselves to the crankshaft journal. The internal carnage was extreme caused by the still connected sections of the rods spinning and breaking everything in their way including the camshaft. When I examined the block after it was all apart
the center main area of the block held together. Theres no cracks in the center web of this now dead block and the stock cast center main bearing cap also is perfect. The crankshaft had fifteen thousands run out in the center.
Just a simple amount of additional support is needed and our damaged block is proof on how well it worked.
Ronnieroadster

I really like the sound of that support. seems like it's the simplest solution to increasing strength without having to completely rebuild the oil pan area. do you happen to have a picture of what the internal portion of the strap looks like so I could see how you fit it to the cap and a general idea of size??

[Ronnieroadster]

Sponsored Links (Register now to hide all advertisements)

Originally Posted by revkev6

I really like the sound of that support. seems like it's the simplest solution to increasing strength without having to completely rebuild the oil pan area. do you happen to have a picture of what the internal portion of the strap looks like so I could see how you fit it to the cap and a general idea of size??

I dont have a photo of the support since they are now hidden away inside the race engines. When i make the supports I mill the surface that sits on the bearing cap so it follows the shape of the cap. The area in contact with the cap is milled so it sits exactly where the lock washer and bolt hold the original cap in place to do this takes some creative milling by hand. I also add A bolt to the center of the support which touches the top center of the main bearing cap to help add support in that area. The center support bolt idea is identical to the simple center main bearing supports that are available
from some company's or easily made from 1/2 inch high by 1 inch wide flat steel stock.