Ford 94 Carburator Issue?

[vespaholic]

I hope I'm not wearing out my welcome tonight, but I have another question.
While looking for a place to connect my vacuum gauge I noticed an issue with my rear carb.
The circled linkage in the picture below (not my picture) was not connected at the bottom.
2 Questions:
1) What does this linkage do?
2) What happens if it's not connected as mine was.
Seemed to run better once I reconnected it but that could just be my imagination.
The car left me stranded with what I though was vapor lock the other day.
3rd Question, could this linkage not being connected have caused my problem?
Thank again!

[Old Henry]

That linkage operates the accelerator pump above it. I don't know how essential it is in a two carb set up that sounds like you have. I have no experience with that. Someone who has may tell. I know if it's not hooked up on a solo carb the engine will hesitate and maybe even die with any attempt to accelerate without that little squirt of gas the accelerator pump gives.

[adileo]

I have dual carbs recently rebuilt by the best Charlie NY. When I got them back Charlie said if I had a flat spot when accelerating to move the linkage over one spot. So Old HENRY I think your spot on with your reply.

[Old Henry]

Originally Posted by adileo

I have dual carbs recently rebuilt by the best Charlie NY. When I got them back Charlie said if I had a flat spot when accelerating to move the linkage over one spot. So Old HENRY I think your spot on with your reply.

Sounds like even with a multiple carb set up you get better acceleration with all accelerator pumps working.

As adileo said, there is even an adjustment of how much squirt you get with the pump. The linkage can be moved between the three holes on the accelerator lever as shown. The rear hole #1 moves the pump less for less gas and #3 moves it the most for the biggest squirt. I like a big squirt for strongest acceleration so always leave mine at #3.

Here's the link that you can get and easily snap it in:

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_me...-and-2100.html

[vespaholic]

Thanks guys, that explains a lot.
It definitely accelerates smoother with it attached.
Now for the $50 question.
Could the one on the rear carb being disconnected make the car not run and act as if it was either out of gas or had vapor lock?
Furthermore would adding an electric inline fuel pump "fix" the problem when really it was the accelerator pump not being connected?
Thanks

[Old Henry]

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Originally Posted by vespaholic

Thanks guys, that explains a lot.
It definitely accelerates smoother with it attached.
Now for the $50 question.
Could the one on the rear carb being disconnected make the car not run and act as if it was either out of gas or had vapor lock?
Furthermore would adding an electric inline fuel pump "fix" the problem when really it was the accelerator pump not being connected?
Thanks

The accelerator pump does nothing except when accelerating. Its absence would not affect the steady running of the engine at any speed nor cause the engine to die as if out of gas. An electric inline fuel pump would not fix the stumbling acceleration that the absence of the accelerator pump would cause, but, it would fix a true vapor lock problem if that's what you have.

A fairly reliable and easy test to diagnose vapor lock is, when the engine dies, pour water on the mechanical fuel pump to cool it down. If the engine then starts right up it was vapor lock. If not, it could still be vapor lock in the fuel line leading up to the mechanical pump (I've only had that on a 8ba engine in a 51 Custom). More likely, if the engine won't start after cooling down the mechanical fuel pump it is something else.

[Mart]

The accelerator pump is more targeted than Henry states. It only gets used at the beginning of the acceleration, when you mash the pedal. It gives a squirt of neat fuel straight down the carb throat. This overcomes a flat spot that you can have when suddenly opening the throttle. After the first second (or slightly longer, don't know the exact figure), the carb relies on it's jets to deliver the fuel and in this instance, (accelerating), the power valve will be in operation that gives the extra enrichment required when hard acceleration is demanded.

So, the short version is, no, the linkage being disconnected will not cause the issue you describe.

If when refitting the link, you still have a flat spot when mashing the pedal, move the links out to the next hole. You have a choice of 3 holes. Both links in the middle hole seems to work for me, but you need to experiment and judge for yourself.

You should be able to mash the pedal to the floor and feel instant acceleration.

It's amazing how hard you can be on these old cars and they just lap it up.

Mart.

[vespaholic]

@ Old Henry & Mart: Thanks for the replies.
I'll play around with the hole positions after I get the electric fuel pump installed.
I'm 99% sure I have a vapor lock issue.
When the car stopped running I checked the tank (almost full) then the carbs (totally dry).
I waited until it cooled down a bit and it started back up and ran fine until it got hot again.
Took a long time to go 1 mile home.
I'm still learning my way around this car.
It's my first flathead and it was set up as a race car for the TROG so I'm sure it will need a bit of tweaking.
Thanks again!

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Originally Posted by Old Henry

Sounds like even with a multiple carb set up you get better acceleration with all accelerator pumps working.

As adileo said, there is even an adjustment of how much squirt you get with the pump. The linkage can be moved between the three holes on the accelerator lever as shown. The rear hole #1 moves the pump less for less gas and #3 moves it the most for the biggest squirt. I like a big squirt for strongest acceleration so always leave mine at #3.

Here's the link that you can get and easily snap it in:

http://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_me...-and-2100.html

Professor. How do you change the position? I can't figure out how to take it off?

thanks
GB

[Bassman/NZ]

Originally Posted by Graeme / New Zealand

Professor. How do you change the position? I can't figure out how to take it off?

thanks
GB

Graeme... it just pulls straight out. The top boss is held in by a little spring clip thingy. Grasp it near the top with pliers and just pull firmly out.

[Graeme / New Zealand]

Thanks Bassman.

RIP Lemmy. Saw him in New Plymouth in 2007, couldn't wait for him to come back but that will never happen now. That Richenbacker sure is a monster too.

GB

[vespaholic]

I finally had a chance to play with the carbs.
I moved the Accelerator Pump Link to position #3 on both carbs.
HOLY SHIP!!! What a difference in acceleration.
It made the car almost like a contemporary car.
The links on both carbs are a little loose.
Can they be tightened or do I need to replace them?
Thanks

[Ken Crans]

Originally Posted by Graeme / New Zealand

Thanks Bassman.

RIP Lemmy. Saw him in New Plymouth in 2007, couldn't wait for him to come back but that will never happen now. That Richenbacker sure is a monster too.

GB

Graeme, Probably alot of guys don't know who he is...LOL Yep one of the greatest bass players. R I P Lemmy!

[adileo]

[QUOTE=vespaholic;1219944]I finally had a chance to play with the carbs.
I moved the Accelerator Pump Link to position #3 on both carbs.
HOLY SHIP!!! What a difference in acceleration.
It made the car almost like a contemporary car.
The links on both carbs are a little loose.
Can they be tightened or do I need to replace them?
Thanks[/QUOTE

As long as the pins are in all the way, your fine.

[vespaholic]

@adileo: That's the issue. The one on the rear carb jiggles off when I drive.
Now that being said that was when it was in position #2.
We'll see how it goes in position #3 as it feels a little bit more secure.

[adileo]

Originally Posted by vespaholic

@adileo: That's the issue. The one on the rear carb jiggles off when I drive.
Now that being said that was when it was in position #2.
We'll see how it goes in position #3 as it feels a little bit more secure.

Oh - take two needle nose pliers and bend slightly inward. Then push back in place. I believe you can also buy new replacements online.

[vespaholic]

OK Thanks

[FlatheadTed]

I still believe a lot of Vapour lock problems are a poor performing mechanical pump or air leaks in the line ,hot fuel only escalates the problem .If you insist on a electrical pump here is one of the best out there no pressure regulator needed as its rated at 2,1/2psi solid state Rated for vintage cars .6 volt 12 volt .Ted

[vespaholic]

I already bought an inline K&K fuel Pump rated at 1-2 PSI.
I'm putting it on a switch.

[adileo]

I'm no expert but 1 to 2 sounds too low. Especially with dual carbs. I run my duals at 3.

[A bones]

Originally Posted by FlatheadTed

I still believe a lot of Vapour lock problems are a poor performing mechanical pump or air leaks in the line ,hot fuel only escalates the problem .If you insist on a electrical pump here is one of the best out there no pressure regulator needed as its rated at 2,1/2psi solid state Rated for vintage cars .6 volt 12 volt .Ted

By what name does the pump answer?

[vespaholic]

My understanding is that the inline is just to keep things moving.
The mechanical pump will be doing the feeding still.

[flatheadmurre]

Originally Posted by adileo

I'm no expert but 1 to 2 sounds too low. Especially with dual carbs. I run my duals at 3.

Pressure and number of carbs has nothing to do with each other.
Right pressure for the type of carb.
More carbs need a higher flow pump.

[vespaholic]

I got the info from other threads here so hopefully it will work.
If not I guess I'm out $55!

[flatheadmurre]

If the mechanical pump is still in place it will set the pressure as long as electrical pump pressure is lower.

[vespaholic]

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@flatheadmurre: Not sure I catch your drift.
Should the pump I bought work or no?
BTW: In the off position the inline electric pump has 100% flow through.

[adileo]

Yes your mechanical pump will drive. I removed my mechanical and run just electric.

The only problem is if your rubber seal ever goes and your electric is running it will push gas into your crank. That's why I removed mine

[FlatheadTed]

A mechanical pump set up correctly will supply two carbs no problem .I can get these pumps ,PM me Ted

Originally Posted by A bones

By what name does the pump answer?

[JSeery]

Originally Posted by vespaholic

@flatheadmurre: Not sure I catch your drift.
Should the pump I bought work or no?
BTW: In the off position the inline electric pump has 100% flow through.

The problem is you're getting answers from purist who like to keep their cars as close to original as possible and from people who don't mind modifying their cars if they believe it to be an improvement. These cars all run when they left the factor, so they will work with the original parts. On the other hand most of our cars/trucks are not in original condition with new everything and times have changed. The fuel is different, the driving conditions are different, etc. I'm in the camp of modifications are fine, but like to keep them period correct to the 50s, early 60s. So there you go. Your electric fuel pump will work fine and solve some issues. There is the concern with the original pump failing and pumping fuel into the oil, there are fixes for that or you can just use the elec for startup and vapor lock or you can convert to total elec.

[vespaholic]

@JSeery: Original not an issue on this! LOL
Thanks

[JSeery]

Looks factory stock! Nice looking car by the way.

[vespaholic]

Thanks!
I wish I could take credit for building it but I can't.
I'll be "making it my own" though.

[adileo]

Love it. Did I see that at Hershey or that show on the old air strip in pa

[vespaholic]

Thanks.
I have no idea where you may have seen it as I've only owned it for a few weeks.

[Bored&Stroked]

Originally Posted by vespaholic

Thanks.
I have no idea where you may have seen it as I've only owned it for a few weeks.

Nice car - have some fun with it! If you're new to flatheads and need anything, just let me know - be happy to help you out.

PS: I think you'll find that having the accel pumps on the #3 hole will give you the biggest squirt of fuel and it will run the best in that position. If you're running an open hood, kind of surprises me that you'd have vapor lock (due to the amount of air circulating around the engine). Are any of the fuel lines close to the heads/block???

B&S

[vespaholic]

@Bored&Stroked: Thanks! I'm trying to have fun but this fuel (I think) issue is pissing me off.
I have not put the electric pump in yet and I went for a quick ride and the bitch stopped on me again.
NO WAY it's vapor lock…no hood…40 degrees outside…only running for 4 minutes…fuel pump and lines were cold...1/2 tank of gas.
I'm thinking the fuel pump is bad.

[30-9]

Bet your fuel line is suckin air in.

[flatheadmurre]

Drive it until it quits.
You still got spark ?
Loosen the fuel line into the carb and crank you got fuel coming out ?
Narrow down the things that can be wrong one by one and you find the source.

[vespaholic]

Not sure how to safely check for spark on a Magneto equipped car.
I'll Google that.
I don't want to screw it up.

The problem with checking the fuel is that it's so intermittent I know there will be fuel when I check.

I dragged the thing home last night after it left me stuck and it fired up no problem in the driveway.

[flatheadmurre]

Run it from a container of gas placed high enough to gravity feed into the carb.
If it quits on you from heatstroke then its ignition .
If it runs like a champ on that setup.
next is fresh gas in clean can suction fed into the fuelpump.
If it still works great crud in tank or fuel lines.

[Bored&Stroked]

You definitely need to figure out if it is a fuel or spark issue . . . then go from there.

Magneto: Just like checking with any other ignition . . . pull a wire from a plug and hold it a 1/4" away and crank it over - or just put a timing light on it. I run mags as often as possible - it is rare that they are intermittent . . . unless there is something funny going on with the ground/kill switch wiring or the switch itself. Or just put your tongue on the end of it and have your wife crank it over - you'll be screaming and she'll be laughing!

What type of mag? If it is an older mag like a Harman Collins, then it could have a bad coil in it. When the coil is weak, it will tend to quit once the ignition heats up. Once it cools down - works just fine again. If this is the case, then have Tom Cerello rebuild it and put a new coil in it.

What does it feel like when it quits? Like it is starving for fuel - and running out? If you take the air cleaners off and work the throttles (after it quits) - do you see any fuel coming out of the accell pump squirters?

Fuel Pumps: I tend to run the ones that have glass bowls on them - so I can see when they are pumping fuel (easily). One issue with the new/modern ones is that they usually have way too much pressure for Strombergs - so a pressure regulator is needed. Does your car currently have a pressure regulator on it? If so, maybe it is just set too low?

When it quits, pull the fuel line to the carbs - put the kill switch 'On' and see if you're getting good squirts of fuel when you just crank it over. I'd take a little can to capture the fuel in - and have a good fire extinguisher with yah! You need to determine if the pump is working . . . as it should at crank speed.

Feel free to ping me if you need more help.

B&S

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by Bored&Stroked

You definitely need to figure out if it is a fuel or spark issue . . . then go from there.

Magneto: Just like checking with any other ignition . . . pull a wire from a plug and hold it a 1/4" away and crank it over - or just put a timing light on it. I run mags as often as possible - it is rare that they are intermittent . . . unless there is something funny going on with the ground/kill switch wiring or the switch itself. Or just put your tongue on the end of it and have your wife crank it over - you'll be screaming and she'll be laughing!

What type of mag? If it is an older mag like a Harman Collins, then it could have a bad coil in it. When the coil is weak, it will tend to quit once the ignition heats up. Once it cools down - works just fine again. If this is the case, then have Tom Cerello rebuild it and put a new coil in it.

What does it feel like when it quits? Like it is starving for fuel - and running out? If you take the air cleaners off and work the throttles (after it quits) - do you see any fuel coming out of the accell pump squirters?

Fuel Pumps: I tend to run the ones that have glass bowls on them - so I can see when they are pumping fuel (easily). One issue with the new/modern ones is that they usually have way too much pressure for Strombergs - so a pressure regulator is needed. Does your car currently have a pressure regulator on it? If so, maybe it is just set too low?

When it quits, pull the fuel line to the carbs - put the kill switch 'On' and see if you're getting good squirts of fuel when you just crank it over. I'd take a little can to capture the fuel in - and have a good fire extinguisher with yah! You need to determine if the pump is working . . . as it should at crank speed.

Feel free to ping me if you need more help.

B&S

All good advice, but we have to remember that some of us tend to be a little slow in the humor department!

[vespaholic]

I think it's fixed, thanks to all for the advice, I really appreciate it.
I tested the mag…full spark.
So it was a fuel issue.
Traced everything back from the carbs to the tank.
I guess I should have gone the other way. LOL
It appears to have been a clog in the valve in the bottom of the Model T tank that resides in the Boat Tail.
The valve was half blocked and this little bit of rubber seemed to be floating around and blocking it fully but only occasionally.
I was fairly sure that it was a fuel issue because I was starting to get a minor lean backfire.
Drained the tank, cleaned everything, seems to be OK.
I left the elec. fuel pump installed and on a switch.
Not sure if it's just my imagination, but it seems to run better with the elec. pump on.
We'll see!
Thanks again.