Wheel Hub Puller

[JM 35 Sedan]

If you have a stubborn hub/drum to remove, that's fitting tightly on the axle taper based on being torqued correctly to 200-220 ft pds, I doubt that some of the lower cost pullers shown on this thread would get them off. I had been using a puller I made over 10 years ago that worked well until I tried to remove a very stubborn drum on the rear of my 35 fordor sedan. I finally got a Winfield version of the original KRW, and that popped if off. Sounded like a round being fired from my 38 pistol when it finally popped.

[oldford2]

I am going to pull the hubs to grease the bearings as part of my winterization (bleed brakes, grease, change the oil, etc.). I am going to try a trick mentioned here in the past: Loosen the nuts a couple of turns and drive it slowly in the neighborhood making a couple of sharp turns in both directions. Will post the results next week.
John

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by oldford2

I am going to try a trick mentioned here in the past: Loosen the nuts a couple of turns and drive it slowly in the neighborhood making a couple of sharp turns in both directions. Will post the results next week.
John

Ya know, that old "trick" has been passed-around by the peanut gallery for eons now. So, who am I to say whether it's a GOOD idea or a BAD idea? I can only suggest that ya think about the "dumb logic" behind trying to break a hub free using that method. I believe that it's a great way to chance destroying the taper inside your hub, and also a good way to chance damaging your axle, or at least causing a nick in the steel surface that can become a stress-riser leading to future axle failure.

Here's the deal! It's amazing to read these threads over and over about questions regarding how tight to make that big axle nut, or why does it need to be that tight, or wondering which type of lube to put on the axle taper when re-assembling. These repeated questions are amazing because it is a good indicator that MANY people still don't understand the principle of how that tapered axle and hub works. Fact is that it works just like a "Morse" taper works in driving many types of machinery. The CORRECT tightening of the two tapered surfaces forms a friction-fit that is able to transmit the TOTAL designed load. That key in the keyway is NOT designed to drive that hub. Friction via the tightened tapers drives that hub.

Keeping this in mind, let's imagine what CAN happen if ya loosen that big nut "a couple of turns". That amount equates to something better than 1/8". Supposing that the hub DOES break loose on the first turn out of your driveway, or at any other point along your short route, the hub and drum is likely to move outward to the big nut.....suddenly! The inboard edge of the tapered hole in the hub is now probably tearing-up the inner surface of the axle taper, making those pesky stress-riser thingies we talked about above, with every turn the hub makes. Not only that, there's no friction between the tapers to drive the hub now. The rest of your "short drive" could very well have the axle spinning inside the loose taper of the hub, quite possibly breaking the key stock, the keyways in the hub and the axle, and quite likely destroying the tapered surface inside the hub. You might even end-up completing your "short drive" on the rear of a ROLL-BACK. That's why I bought the right puller many years ago. Ya just can't chance destroying an axle, nor a hard-to-find GOOD drum and hub nowadays. I'd re-think even driving-around the yard with a loose nut. DD

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by oldford2

I am going to pull the hubs to grease the bearings as part of my winterization (bleed brakes, grease, change the oil, etc.). I am going to try a trick mentioned here in the past: Loosen the nuts a couple of turns and drive it slowly in the neighborhood making a couple of sharp turns in both directions. Will post the results next week.
John

That's an excellent idea. Be sure to get back to us on the current price of axles.

[oldford2]

Originally Posted by ford38v8

That's an excellent idea. Be sure to get back to us on the current price of axles.

Alan, Please let us know how a few slow speed turns with loose axle nuts could break an axle? Thanks
John

[V8COOPMAN]

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Originally Posted by oldford2

Alan, Please let us know how a few slow speed turns with loose axle nuts could break an axle? Thanks
John

Virtually all of these axle failures are a result of what started-out as a tiny stress-riser. Ask CAPT. KIRK about those broken axles. DD

[oldford2]

"could very well have the axle spinning inside the loose taper of the hub, quite possibly breaking the key stock, the keyways in the hub and the axle, and quite likely destroying the tapered surface inside the hub"
I am an ex toolmaker that included studies of "strength of materials" I think you should study the force required to shear the axle key. I fully understand the strength of the Morse taper. How could the axle "spin" on the hub with a slight loosening of the taper? What is your explanation of the reason the Henry put a key in the axle. I don't plan on drag racing to loosen the hub. Have you ever seen a sheared key? Maybe post a picture. Thanks
John

[V8COOPMAN]

Originally Posted by oldford2

I am an ex toolmaker that included studies of "strength of materials"

Oh oh! I see that you have studied "strength of materials"!

I guess you win, John.....I can't "top" your studies. It is remarkable though, that you've never heard of anyone shearing an axle key on an old Ford rear end. You must not pay a lot of attention....try doing a search. It's a significant event in the long history of guys abusing (or not) old Ford drivetrains, since about the time Hoover was leaving the White House. You go ahead and loosen your nuts, and carry-on! Believe me, none of the reasonable and experienced old Ford guys use the rediculous "loosened nut" method. DD

[ford38v8]

Originally Posted by oldford2

Alan, Please let us know how a few slow speed turns with loose axle nuts could break an axle? Thanks
John

John, I won't attempt to confuse you with the facts. Carry on.

[19Fordy]

Holy Mackeral!
STUPID IS AS STUPID DOES
This is not rocket science.
Follow V8's advice.

Gotta go stick my finger near the fan blade to see if it's turning in the right direction.

[Kube]

My gosh, I am laughing my butt off at the posts #28, 29 & 30. You three guys are funny as heck!
Ya know what is even funnier? Oldford2. Now that guy is friggin' hilarious.

He is one of the reasons there are caution labels on lawn mowers advising a guy not to put his fingers near the rotating blades. Problem is, in my humble opinion, that if a guy is stupid enough to even contemplate putting his hands near the rotating blade, can he read / understand the label?

"Strength of materials" Laughin' my butt off. There are tool makers and then there are well, I digress. Just remember guys, not all people graduate at the top of the class.

[38bill]

If a guy wants to do something "his" way that's up to him. You can suggest what you consider to be the "proper" way but these responses are childish.

[Mart]

Yeah, c'mon, guys, offer advice but don't start demeaning people. That turns a pleasant friendly board into something not so nice to visit.

A friend sheared a key on the beach at Pendine. The axle was severely twisted, it looked like the key sheared progressively along it's length, until the final inch let go and allowed the hub to spin. I have a photo somewhere of the shaft.

You will never shear a key if the hub is tight enough.

Pay attention to your nuts, boys, make sure they are always "gudentight".

Mart.

[Charlie Stephens]

There are a lot of neat ideas here. If you use them be sure to run safety hubs or safety clips (which you should do anyway).

Charlie Stephens

[dwick01]

I appreciate the sharing of knowledge on here. I think it is important to know the "right" ways to maintain safety and hold down costs in an old car. Stressing that importance to novices such as I are important, especially when talking about shortcuts. How one chooses to use that information is another matter, but they will at least have been informed. There are some things you can take a shortcut on, but this does not appear to be one of them.

My first experience of taking those dreadful hubs off was a few months back. It was a tough battle, but I came out victorious. I had no idea how difficult it was going to be. I borrowed a puller from a friend, and after hours of hard labor, finally got them off.

Oh, what a relief it was!

[JSeery]

To restate what V8coopman was saying, in order for the taper to do it's job the surfaces need to be in very good condition! If a hub is allowed to move around any on the axle shaft it is likely that the mating surfaces will experience some minor damage. When it is reassembled this damage, minor as it might be, will reduce the ability of the taper to lock the axle in place. As a side note, the key way does very little to keep the hub in place IF the taper is not holding! This can be seen by the major damage that occurs when it is not working correctly due to a bad taper fit or improperly torqued axle nut.

[Kube]

Originally Posted by JSeery

To restate what V8coopman was saying, in order for the taper to do it's job the surfaces need to be in very good condition! If a hub is allowed to move around any on the axle shaft it is likely that the mating surfaces will experience some minor damage. When it is reassembled this damage, minor as it might be, will reduce the ability of the taper to lock the axle in place. As a side note, the key way does very little to keep the hub in place IF the taper is not holding! This can be seen by the major damage that occurs when it is not working correctly due to a bad taper fit or improperly torqued axle nut.

I have seen first hand numerous axles broken or in even more cases, damaged beyond what I'd consider using by the taper fit being poor and / or the nut not being as tight as necessary / designed.
As you mention, that key does little to well, almost "zero" to drive the wheel. A properly fit taper is EXTREMELY strong.

[JM 35 Sedan]

Originally Posted by 38bill

If a guy wants to do something "his" way that's up to him. You can suggest what you consider to be the "proper" way but these responses are childish.

I agree with the "childishness" of some of the responses here on this post, and these are coming from senior members who normally give folks good sound advice. So lets all please think twice before we make these kinds of replies.

[JRHASZARD]

I wish I had one of those " good" hub pullers. I intend to buy one when I can. Another useful tool is the door hinge pin puller. Even with the best one I could find, it was still an all day sweat to remove the pins from my 31 Tudor to install new mirrors.

[old46ford]

I had one like the above and it broke in half. I have an original KR tool now.