Locked up engine project

[WillC]

An older gentlemen brought me his car to get running after it had sat for over 10 years. It took me a week just to get the head off. I found that coolant had seeped into number 3 and 4. The coolant had pitted the cylinder walls on 3 and 4. After 3 days number 1 and number 3 will no longer hold standing penetrating fluid. The fluid seeps down past the rings. 2 and 4 are still froze. This car is in amazing shape. I sure hope that I can get the engine running again.

[redmodelt]

Sounds just like one we are working on in the shop. I am guessing when they rebuilt "overhauled" the engine the head was never torqued down again after running. This one has pitting in the cylinders also from the leaks. As it is will need full rebuilt, the babbitt was going/gone too. It had been sitting about the same amount of time. I was able to bump the pistons to get them to move so I could clean the walls to get them out.

[Railcarmover]

Do yourself a favor...bore the damaged cylinders,cut the good ones to match, refit the valves and check and reset the bearing clearances.Overhauling isnt a bad thing if its done within specification.Just finished a friends engine.stock ford pistons and valves,refit bearings,honed with new rings and lapped valves,runs like new at a fraction of the cost.

[WillC]

Question, if I was to devise a make shift press over the engine using a bottle jack would I hurt anything by trying to press down the frozen pistons?

[johnneilson]

WillC,

you could hurt something else with a hydraulic jack.

I have removed crank before and then pushed the pistons up thru the top.

John

[Joe K]

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Originally Posted by WillC

Question, if I was to devise a make shift press over the engine using a bottle jack would I hurt anything by trying to press down the frozen pistons?

I have generally found that the piston "ring ridge" (a ridge is formed at the top just above the top-most ring) impedes removal of the piston - even with motors not stuck. (Hence why they sell a "piston ring ridge reamer" and recommend its use before pulling pistons "up" lest you damage the rings.)

In your case you're probably not so picky - it is VERY unlikely you can even get all the rings out and off in one piece anyway. Most when they rebuild an engine simply get new pistons and rings and throw the old stuff away (or cut them through the wrist pin hole and make ash trays out of them?)

Coming out through the bottom works - I have done it. Best done with the crank out - although I think I have done it with the crank in. It seemed like the crank was ALWAYS in the wrong spot.

I would try to get something to "buck up" the top of the pistons. Possibly a block of hardwood or better steel cut to 1/8" less than the bore. As you can imagine, aluminum pistons can be fragile when exposed to a point contact, and spreading the load and transferring it to the piston sidewalls would seem the best possibility of success.

Joe K

[Railcarmover]

If you rig a press up be mindful,ford grey iron castings dont tolerate abuse,it would suck to screw up a block loosening up a piston..that's they key however,beat the piston to death to get it out,but dont use the block to do it.

[wensum]

I was probably lucky in my youth, bought a very straight phaeton with seized motor, towed it to the top of a quite steep road, coasted down until it got up to a reasonable speed, and then dropped the clutch whilst a mate lying on the mudguard squirted oil into the bores. I got many miles out of it before it needed a rebuild

[jm29henry]

Any pictures of the car or the the project love to see what you are working on

[WillC]

Im not to good at doing photos but here is how I after almost two weeks how I got it free. This is after two weeks of soaking it in Kroll oil and pounding with a 2X4 and hammer. I had go it to move about a inch. This just finished the job. I guess I cant do a photo. What I did was to three small blocks of 2 x 4 the same size as the cylinder and a small bottle jack with a small strap tied to the head studs and then over the jack and slowly pressed the piston down. I did this very slowly with each piston until they all had free movement. Each time I would coat the cylinder with very light grade oil> 3 in one oil.

[Joe K]

"Homang" in the movie/book "The Sand Pebbles" used Oil of Wintergreen for disassembly/repair of the Triple Expansion Steam Engine. Recently I have begun using PB Blaster which from the odor I detect contains SOME oil of wintergreen.

A very penetrating smell as well as penetrating oil.

Earlier, indoors, I have used a mix of ATF and Kerosene - or for outdoors unconfined disassembly ATF and gasoline. The gasoline is wont to be hazardous so this one tends to be reserved for outside the shop/garage - and for cold windy days.

3 in 1 oil tends to the "watch trade" but more like clock and firearms. True watch aficionados use only sperm oil (now regulated and Expen$ive) but one imagines today there are substitutes. The last watch oil I bought from RadioShack in a little hypodermic plastic tube was a mix of light oil and silicone (cloudy) which IMHO might actually develop problems with watches.

I have a little 1/2 ounce bottle of true sperm oil in front of me at my desk marked W.F. Nye Co. - New Bedford, Mass. While not among my prize possessions, its as close to an Acme as I can afford to get in this arena.

One of my BEST shop purchases was a 20 ton press sold by Harbor Freight. Mine bought at $129 and here in Cow Hampshire (No tax and no shipping as the store is nearby) I have used the 20 ton aspect now for a while but decided to upgrade the jack portion to 35 ton so I can do the elusive "swaging" of wheel studs. Total cost about $200 for the press and new jack.

New toys are always fun.

Joe K

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

So after reading thru this thread multiple times, is the owner's intent to correctly repair the problem or just do a hack job?

[rocket1]

Joe K,sorry to hack this thread,I also have that press,no problem with the frame with the 35 ton bottle jack? I also want to swage some drum studs.

[Railcarmover]

Originally Posted by BRENT in 10-uh-C

So after reading thru this thread multiple times, is the owner's intent to correctly repair the problem or just do a hack job?

Don't you know? model a's are different than any other engine,beat them free,leave the sludge,don't look at a bearing and they'll run perfect for another 90 years..

[WillC]

Today was spent chasing all the threads in the block, studs and nuts so they are nice and clean. The one head stud closest to the leak would not come out, even after heating it still wont move so that one will stay in place. Wired cleaned the block and head. Cleaned the distributor hole on the head and the distributor. Going to pull the carb apart just to clean everything in it. I'm doing just what the owner wants and no more, That said, I think this is still going to make him a great car.

[BRENT in 10-uh-C]

Originally Posted by WillC

Today was spent chasing all the threads in the block, studs and nuts so they are nice and clean. The one head stud closest to the leak would not come out, even after heating it still wont move so that one will stay in place. Wired cleaned the block and head. Cleaned the distributor hole on the head and the distributor. Going to pull the carb apart just to clean everything in it. I'm doing just what the owner wants and no more, That said, I think this is still going to make him a great car.

I believe I know where this is headed, but none-the-less, how will you check the head and block deck to ensure they are not the contributing factor to the leak??

[WillC]

Brent, It is what it is. I'm just doing my best to help an older gentleman get a couple more drives from his car. Iv seen much worse work good. I'm certain if the gentleman was able to afford the money to send the engine to a builder he would have. My Model T engine sat in a diesel fuel bath for 3 years to get the engine freed back up again from sitting after it had been parked in 1945. I'm still running the same head gasket I used to put the engine back together 18 years ago. She don't leak a drop of water even after 18 years. I have found that old Fords are very forgiving and don't necessarily need to be brought back to perfit stringent factory specifications. The gentleman if 86 years old. If I can squeeze a few more miles driving out of the car for the guy then Iv completed my mission. Most of the time my best form of payment is the smile it brings to the guy behind the steering wheel when they turn the key. So, I hope you now see where this is headed, Some joy that I was able to help the best I could to give him just a few more rides. This car is a long way from my first adventure and I hope it will be a long time before my last.

[Railcarmover]

did the same thing on my 75 year old friends 28 special coupe..nice and cheap,used parts in spec...runs good.

[Chuck Sea/Tac]

Here’s a pic of a new two or three year old engine. Fortunately damamage was minimal.

[M2M]

Originally Posted by WillC

Brent, It is what it is. I'm just doing my best to help an older gentleman get a couple more drives from his car. Iv seen much worse work good. I'm certain if the gentleman was able to afford the money to send the engine to a builder he would have. My Model T engine sat in a diesel fuel bath for 3 years to get the engine freed back up again from sitting after it had been parked in 1945. I'm still running the same head gasket I used to put the engine back together 18 years ago. She don't leak a drop of water even after 18 years. I have found that old Fords are very forgiving and don't necessarily need to be brought back to perfit stringent factory specifications. The gentleman if 86 years old. If I can squeeze a few more miles driving out of the car for the guy then Iv completed my mission. Most of the time my best form of payment is the smile it brings to the guy behind the steering wheel when they turn the key. So, I hope you now see where this is headed, Some joy that I was able to help the best I could to give him just a few more rides. This car is a long way from my first adventure and I hope it will be a long time before my last.

That's wonderful. The best thing about the old car hobby is not the cars themselves but rather seeing the smiles they bring to others.

Have someone help you take a video of when the old-boy first sees the car start up and goes for a drive.