front brake issues

[Purdy Swoft]

The lining isn't all that thick but ... 1/16 equals about .060 (sixty thousants) 3/16 is three times that thick and a far cry thicker than .020 (twenty thousants).. Just a thought .

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The lining isn't all that thick but ... 1/16 equals about .060 (sixty thousants) 3/16 is three times that thick and a far cry thicker than .020 (twenty thousants).. Just a thought .

Bob wrote 0.20" which threw me for about a minute. Since many of us are accustomed to dealing in thousandths (or finer, OR even finer) I always write measurement decimals with at least three digits beyond the decimal such as 0.200" to avoid such confusion.

[Bob Johnson]

Sorry about the confusion. I have a science background and I was taught to express measurements using only significant figures. I wrote 0.20 because I measured it to within 1/100". For me 0.200 would imply that I measured to within 1/1000". What if I change it to 1/5" or one fifth on an inch.


Bob

[Tom Wesenberg]

Originally Posted by Vanspeed

Pretty thick, 3/16. My drums measure 11 inches. No real issues, no groves.

Can you post a close up of the top adjuster and pins, and another close up of the bottom wedge and rollers? A third picture of the whole assembly would also help.

[Vanspeed]

Here are some pics

[bobv]

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Could there be a build up of crud behind the adjuster causing it to not back off far enough? I would remove and clean and the adjuster and check the threads making sure it backs off all the way. If it was run with badly worn shoes and the adjusters turned way in you could have a build up in there.

[Flathead]

I agree, looks like that adjuster should back off more than it is.

[Bob Johnson]

Here are a couple of picture that may help. Notice how far the wedge can go. I think your just has to be lowered more. As others have said it could be something interfering with allowing the wedge to go all the way down.

Bob

[Purdy Swoft]

Originally Posted by Vanspeed

Here are some pics

I believe that I see the problem. If you notice, the brake shoe rollers are riding against the the operating wedge stud washer and not allowing the wedge to rise enough for the shoes to draw all the way in at the bottom. It can be one of two things that will cause this problem. If the head of the roller pin is sliding over the face of the brake tracks instead of riding on top of the tracks it will cause the brake shoe rollers to move outward so that the brake shore roller is riding on the wedge stud washer instead of riding on the wedge. If the inside wedge stud washer was left out, it would cause the wedge stud to move farther in and this would force the shoe roller to ride on the wedge stud. Two things to check and be absolutely positive that the heads of the roller pins are riding on top of the brake tracks. If that for sure checks out, then the inside wedge stud washer is probably missing. Either problem won't allow the shoes to draw in enough at the bottom for the drums to slip over the shoes.

The brake shoe rollers are riding on the wedge stud washer. This will mean that either the brake roller pins are not riding on the top of the brake tracks or the inside wedge stud washer is missing.

[Joe K]

Sometimes the shoe extensions get hung up in the wedge housing.

And sometime the wedge isn't all the way backed out due to grease/crud?

Fine minds think alike - not always EXACTLY alike though.

Plus one on cleaning the wedge/adjuster.

Joe K

[Vanspeed]

Every pic I have seen shoes the rollers resting on the wedge stud washer. I took the adjuster out, did't see anything behind it but I agree, mine does not come out as far as the others show.

[Vanspeed]

Also, the washer is still on the inside of the wedge. Can somebody post a pic of the wedge area of theirs?

[Purdy Swoft]

It will probably be night before I can take pictures , store and post them. I just looked at a front brake assembly that I have on the shelf. The outer wedge stud washer clearly laps over the lower wedge and the brake shoe rollers on my brake assemblies. Your pics look like the brake shoe rollers are riding on the edge of the wedge stud washer. The brake shoe rollers are suppose to ride on the wedge, not the wedge stud washer. The wedge stud washer is holding the rollers so they are not correctly fitting to the wedges as they must. If the inner washer is in place, the only other problem that I can imagine is that the heads of the roller pins are sliding over the face of the tracks instead of riding on the top edge of the brake tracks, as they must. You need to push up and in on the bottom of the shoes to force the brake shoe rollers on the top edge of the tracks, sometimes its not that easy.. This will raise the shoes so that the drums will fit. Just tring to help.

[V4F]

ok , im no guru but , i arch mine to my drums & taper the out side edge . i use my hand grinder with a fine disc . yes it sounds like a back yard mechanic , but it works every time for me . to arch my shoes i lay them in the drum & look for full contact , if not a little more grinder until the fit good .............. yes im self taught & my teacher is dumber than a post , but i have always done things by trial & error . ...........

[Marco Tahtaras]

Originally Posted by Purdy Swoft

The brake shoe rollers are riding on the wedge stud washer. This will mean that either the brake roller pins are not riding on the top of the brake tracks or the inside wedge stud washer is missing.

Without the brake rod attached the rollers are always resting on the wedge stud. It should be that way with the brake rod attached as well, however it's not uncommon for folks to shorten the brake rod beyond that point to compensate for other problems in the brake system.

Originally Posted by Vanspeed

Every pic I have seen shoes the rollers resting on the wedge stud washer. I took the adjuster out, did't see anything behind it but I agree, mine does not come out as far as the others show.

I should have asked, will the drum start over the shoes and then begin to hang up?

[Purdy Swoft]

The rollers should be on the lower wedge not riding on the edge of the wedge stud washer. The edges of the rollers should be under the edges of the wedge stud washer. If you look closely at the pictures you can see that the edge of the rollers are rolling on the edge of the washers, not the lower wedge. Also notice the distance from the outer edge of the backing plate to the shoe lining at the top as compared to the distance at the bottom. This will show you that the shoes are not centered in relation to where the drum will ride. The shoes will need to move upward to center with the drum. If the head of the roller pins isn't sitting on the top edge of the tracks, the shoes will be too low for the drum to fit. The tip of the lower wedge is visible below the bottom of the wedge stud washer . If the wedge was where it should be, the shoes would be closer together at the bottom. the wedge can't rise because the rollers are resting on the wedge stud washer. Surely somebody else that is familiar with model A brakes , besides me can see this.

[Marco Tahtaras]

The rollers are too wide to fit between the washers. Approximately 1/2 of each roller rides on the wedge. The outer half of each roller rests on the washers when the brakes are at rest. The reason for the diameter of both inner and outer washers is specifically to set the closed position to the shoes at the toe by providing a seat for the rollers.

[Bob C]

`Marco is right, there is no way the rollers will fit between the washers.

Bob

[Vanspeed]

Thanks to Bob for the pics of the adjusting wedge stud! I got home today and took a look at mine. They were not that far out. Took the brakes apart again and there was crud on the threads preventing them from bottoming out. Once that was taken care of the drums went on. Thanks for all your help guys!!

[Purdy Swoft]

Here is a pic of a used one that I have. If you look closely you can clearly see that the edges of the rollers are under the edges of the wedge stud washers.


here is another




This shows the track that the roller pins must ride on top of. the level of the tracks control the level of the shoes